Nissan Leaf Test Drive Tour Reports (Oct 1-3)

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My bro and I each had a test drive on Oct 2nd, 2pm. Here's a video of the tour before the drive. We didn't film any ride-along stuff. Figured there's plenty of that out there already.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-1GxwiW7q0

I didn't have any issues with the car. I love it! I'm 6 foot 2 and fit easily in the front and back with inches to spare (above my head and around my knees). I look forward to carpooling to work and charging it in my condo's shared garage (pending HOA approval of course!)
 
Boomer23 said:
Other thoughts from 6 hours at Alt Car Expo today. In no particular order.



- Talked with Aerovironment about some specific questions I had about my EVSE install. Not helpful because they guy didn't know anything about the Leaf EVSE assessments or specifics, or the AV guy, Marty, who I've been dealing with. I asked how much their EVSE would be if I wanted to buy it and he said "$2200 installed". I asked how much it would be if I had a 40 Amp, 240V circuit in the exact right spot for the EVSE. He said "$2200 installed". I asked him if he could see why that doesn't make sense and he said "No, we have some installations that are very long cable runs and require trenching." I asked if he was saying that the first guy has to pay part of the second guy's costs and he basically said yes. INCREDIBLE!

-Talked with EV-Charge America EVSE folks and was quite impressed. They are offering $699 show pricing (discounted from $899 regular price). As we've learned, their EVSE is more impressive than AV's, with a built-in wattage use meter and telematics, as well as RF-chip interactivity. So Cal Edison and I think DWP are testing their EVSEs for accuracy to see if they'll accept their usage meter for metering kWh for EV charging. I'm impressed enough to be interested in this EVSE.
.

Very, very interesting, especially if SCE approves the meter. I was planning on getting the AV unit direct from them for $720 and having my electrician install it (for $200 since it is only 2' to my panel), but it looks so basic - not worth even $720 much less $2200. If I give the EV-Charge America their $699 show pricing, how soon can they deliver ? When are you going to select an EVSE? Is the EV-Charge America actually available ? (the AV might be available in November). I can see I need to allocate serious time this Friday Oct 8 to see and talk to all these folks. Thanks.
 
I know everyone seems to like the seats (at least the front ones), but "comfortable" is rather subjective. The seats are actually my biggest concern about the car seeing as I won't be able to sit in one until my order is almost here. I have a lot of back problems and have to be very careful where I plant my butt. I prefer very 'buckety' seats with lots of side support around my legs and kidney area, and good lumbar support options (adjustable). Many times in these smaller cars you get seats that I find rather flat. They don't hug you, you slide around in them, they offer no support to keep your back straight. The bottom is very parallel with the floor which I find extremely uncomfortable. I need my knees bent with support under them and my but lower than my knees.

Can anyone comment on if you think the seats will be OK for me?

I wish Nissan had been a little more accurate in their color representations. I absolutely hated the "baby" blue that we've seen for months, but seeing the new "production" blue, it could certainly have been a contender. I ordered silver as it was the color I disliked the least.
 
tbleakne said:
Boomer23 said:
Other thoughts from 6 hours at Alt Car Expo today. In no particular order.

Very, very interesting, especially if SCE approves the meter.

Tom, EV-CA said that there would be about an 8 week time from order to delivery. Gary is looking especially closely at this one. Watch the EV-CA thread under Batteries and Charging for thoughts about this one. As for me, I'm getting more interested in an EVSE that can display power usage, but I'm not sure about this small EV-CA startup. The Blink from Ecotality is one that has at least been chosen by Nissan and the Feds and they run the EV Project, so I have a little more faith in them. But that one is $1,195.

I'm in touch with AV on some issues with my quote. I have independent quotes from electricians for a main panel upgrade and to run my cabling, and they are equivalent to my AV quote, so I'm still in the decision making mode.

What to do, what to do? Not sure yet. By the way, regarding this weekend's Leaf drive opportunity, it is different from the Alt Car Expo at Santa Monica. The EVSE supplier booths that I visited were inside the Alt Car hall. This weekend's Leaf drive will be associated with the Orange County Auto Show, so I don't know if there will be EVSE suppliers on hand.
 
turbo2ltr said:
I know everyone seems to like the seats (at least the front ones), but "comfortable" is rather subjective.

I found the seats quite comfortable for a mainstream car. That said, they lack any kind of adjustable lumbar support. The driver seat has height adjustment, but it is manual and doesn't allow adjustment of the front and rear of the seat bottom independently. The seat bottom angle does vary along an arc as you adjust it up and down.

If it helps, I'm 6 foot, 205 lbs, in my early 60s, in average shape, but with back issues (scoliosis). I found the seats to be wider and more supportive than in some cars like the Prius. They have some bucket shape and some lateral support to the seat backs, but they are certainly not sport seats. I wouldn't call them flat seats that you'd slide around in, though. I'm quite happy with them, and I'm currently driving a BMW with the sport seats that are highly adjustable. I guess the only thing I'd change on the Leaf seats is that I'd like the seat back angle to be adjustable through a control wheel rather than a lever with discrete stops.

Remember that you can walk away from the Leaf and get your deposit back even as late as your delivery date, so you can cancel if the Leaf just wont' work for you.
 
There was too much traffic on this thread related to my little blog post after my test drive. If I thought I had the sort of readership that I apparently have I might have spent more time on the review. Maybe I could have made it clearer what portion was fact and what was my emotional reaction to the car. I specifically do not contribute to discussions where I feel that a flame war is possible (see XKCD), but I was invited to post and assured that this is a moderated, friendly discussion.

As an aside, in response to some of the thread: I never got to sit in an Aptera, and I loved the look of it so much I had to put down a deposit. If they had stuck to the original plan (essentially a motorcycle with an enclosed cabin for $20k), I might have wound up with one parked at the curb when it was just me or my older son heading for Philly cheese steaks. Then they changed the team at the top and started doing things like making the windows roll down. I wanted a plastic death trap, like my airplane (DA40, google images and see how it looks like an Aptera with wings, or since it came first the Aptera looks like a DA40 with the wings chopped off).

I just read that the Leaf will be AT&T and the Volt is Verizon. I have an iPhone. I hate AT&T. I guess the telematics don’t come into play that often, but that is an unfortunate choice of network.

(I should point out that my wife drives the electric cars. I research, test drive, and select them and she's the one that gets to drive them. She has had an EV1, EV1 GenII, and now a Rav4 Electric. She drives them and I do all of the whining to the customer service representatives (sorry, Chelsea). My wife has been driving pure electric for more than a decade and has 66,000 miles just on the Rav4. I have driven, since we've been together, a Yamaha Seca II, a Volvo 850 Turbo, a Toyota Sienna, VW Beetle, MINI Cooper and now my Toyota Prius. I squire the boys around and I would really like to be driving something electric most of the time. I loathed the necessity of the minivan and I am glad to be rid of it.)

The EV1 was rock solid. I mean, you could take it around a corner and it felt great even 20mph over the suggested speed on the orange sign. Though it was low slung it didn't feel like you were at risk. I know there are a lot of factors involved in creating that feeling. The EV1 did a good job at all of it.

The Rav4 was not as fun to drive. I don’t feel as in control of the trajectory of the car in the curves as I did with the EV1. I am very aware that the rigid chassis is not a safety feature. But it seats four, feels like it has a solid cage around the occupants, and since you are higher up there’s a sense that you are more easily seen by the SUV drivers that currently surround us. The batteries give it a lower center of gravity than the ICE version of the same car.

I’ve driven the Volt through one set of cones three times (at Dodger Stadium) and through a longer course another three times out at Milford. So, to be fair, I have had more time in it. But even the first time I sat in it I thought, “Well, it’s solid, and I feel protected, so those are two pluses.”

I am not a GM fan. I am probably the most skeptical member of the Customer Advisory Board. I did not like having our EV1 taken away from us and I believe there have been a number of very bad, even irresponsible decisions made at the company. But I also feel that it is important to give the Volt a fair shake, so that’s what I will be doing for my three month trial. If you want to see it torn down for ninety days of suburban driving, wander over to the web site (http://voltaday.com). I assume that the higher price is not for a product that is costing more to produce, but a necessity with the union workers, pension plan, and bankruptcy. I believe that the difference between an American car and Japanese car on the initial cost due to the union and pension factors is well-documented.

I tried to make it clear that my opinion from the test drive was very subjective. There are straight facts that really made me want to put my wife in a Tesla (she’s saved enough money on fuel over the years of pure EV driving to pay for one, the Rav4 would go for quite a bit on eBay still). But I sat in one and I know that she would never feel safe with her seat four inches off the tarmac. The Leaf feels similar to something like the Versa. When we have rented cars at that level (for short hops from an airport to a hotel I go cheap), she has noticed and pointed it out. I believe the same would be true for her driving the Leaf. We’ll see, because soon there will be some at the dealer and probably in the neighborhood and she can try one out. I would like to be pleasantly surprised and have her say she’ll trade her Rav4 for one. After my test drive, that wasn’t how I felt. It did not feel as solid in construction as the Volt or the Rav4, or even the Prius.

As I said in my post, I really want the Leaf to succeed. It is no longer as strong a contender to be in MY garage, but at this point there are so few choices that your mission really matters. (This is true of buying airplanes, too. You can talk all you want about the Cessna being a better plane than Piper, but if your hangar doesn’t fit a high wing plane, that doesn’t really matter.) But I would really like to see a LOT more EVs on the road.

When I got my Prius it had all the options. I brought it over to a friend’s house and let him drive it around a little. He’s a BMW guy, 7-series and was looking at a 5-series (since the kids no longer have the huge car seats). He really liked the Prius, but when I pressed him on whether he would order one instead of the BMW he said, “Not until Toyota comes out with a Lexus version of the Prius.”

I drove an Infinity G Sedan for eight hours or so this summer. A fantastic car. The fancy backup camera with the computer-drawn track that changes as you turn the wheel is astonishing. Everything is tight and hand-sewn feeling. Maybe that’s what I need in the Leaf. A model that’s $5k more and has that additional level of attention might make all the difference. I bet 50lbs of steel would make a huge difference.

But, in the end, my review is personal and still stands. The Leaf did not feel as solid or as safe as my Prius. When I get my hands on one for a longer test drive I will see if that changes and whether I can identify what it might be about it that made me feel that way. I really was hoping to just love the car so that if the Volt didn’t work I had a backup choice to run out and order. That’s no longer the case and I was disappointed about it.

If Nissan would like to start a CAB for the Leaf I’d sign up. (There was no contract signed with GM, so it’s not like I’m exclusive.)

--Colin
twitter: Voltaday
blog: http://voltaday.com
 
ColinSummers said:
I drove an Infinity G Sedan for eight hours or so this summer. A fantastic car. The fancy backup camera with the computer-drawn track that changes as you turn the wheel is astonishing. Everything is tight and hand-sewn feeling. Maybe that’s what I need in the Leaf. A model that’s $5k more and has that additional level of attention might make all the difference. I bet 50lbs of steel would make a huge difference.

The LEAF has that fancy backup camera btw.
 
About that backup camera, does anyone know if it is possible to disable those track lines on the screen? I find those lines distracting, but maybe I can get used to it or maybe not.
 
trentr said:
About that backup camera, does anyone know if it is possible to disable those track lines on the screen? I find those lines distracting, but maybe I can get used to it or maybe not.
Your wrong I like the lines they help you know how wide the car is so you do not hit the curb etc.
 
The Leaf did not feel as solid or as safe as my Prius.

I don't feel that Prius is a safe vehicle, especially with its famous "unintended acceleration" issue. Also, I'll reserve my judgement on Leaf feel when I get to test drive it, but so far the latest Nissan cars all felt safe and solid to me.
 
Gonewild said:
Your wrong I like the lines they help you know how wide the car is so you do not hit the curb etc.

What makes me wrong if you like the lines? :roll: Anyway, that doesn't answer my original question, but to each his own.
 
Gonewild said:
trentr said:
About that backup camera, does anyone know if it is possible to disable those track lines on the screen? I find those lines distracting, but maybe I can get used to it or maybe not.
Your wrong I like the lines they help you know how wide the car is so you do not hit the curb etc.

First off, it's "you're". Secondly, how can someone's feelings about something distracting them be 'wrong'? I happen to like the color blue for my Leaf....am I wrong in that?
;)
 
If you remember when you first learned how to drive you are supposed to look around you and look behind you when changing lanes and going in reverse! The rear view camera should not be used and relied upon anyways! I know I will not rely on it! Its just a fantansy extra in my mind! I am buying the LEAF with or without it! :D
 
IBELEAF said:
The Leaf did not feel as solid or as safe as my Prius.
I don't feel that Prius is a safe vehicle, especially with its famous "unintended acceleration" issue. Also, I'll reserve my judgement on Leaf feel when I get to test drive it, but so far the latest Nissan cars all felt safe and solid to me.
I'm glad ColinSummers posted about his concerns. It's interesting to hear about first impressions with the LEAF, those w/wo EV experience. Sitting in and driving the LEAF did not seem unsafe to me. Certainly not like an econobox. My current drives range from a Volvo XC90 (tank) to a 1997 Subaru Impreza (econobox). I sat in a new Versa and a Sentra awhile back and the LEAF seemed closer to the Sentra than a Versa. I guess I'll wait for the crash test results for a less subjective measure. Pretty sure I'm buying no matter what though. I'll be curious to hear how the next set of test drivers compare/contrast with ColinSummers views.
 
Jimmydreams said:
Secondly, how can someone's feelings about something distracting them be 'wrong'? I happen to like the color blue for my Leaf....am I wrong in that?
Since you've asked ... Yes. :lol:
 
jcodeglia said:
My bro and I each had a test drive on Oct 2nd, 2pm. Here's a video of the tour before the drive. We didn't film any ride-along stuff. Figured there's plenty of that out there already.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-1GxwiW7q0

I didn't have any issues with the car. I love it! I'm 6 foot 2 and fit easily in the front and back with inches to spare (above my head and around my knees). I look forward to carpooling to work and charging it in my condo's shared garage (pending HOA approval of course!)

Thanks for posting the video. This is the first time I have seen the Leaf iPhone app. Others have asked before about an iPhone app but I didn't think we had confirmation that there would be an iPhone app. In any case, in the video you can see the app on an iPhone and the options and data displayed.
 
Jimmydreams said:
Gonewild said:
trentr said:
About that backup camera, does anyone know if it is possible to disable those track lines on the screen? I find those lines distracting, but maybe I can get used to it or maybe not.
Your wrong I like the lines they help you know how wide the car is so you do not hit the curb etc.

First off, it's "you're". Secondly, how can someone's feelings about something distracting them be 'wrong'? I happen to like the color blue for my Leaf....am I wrong in that?
;)
Me sorry JImmy
What I ment was it is helpful to have the lines. :lol:
 
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