GetOffYourGas said:
TonyWilliams said:
It has to come from somewhere, just not you?
Really, Tony? You even quoted him saying that he thinks charging a fee is reasonable....
Tony is referring to cwerdna's comment that public charging has to be cheaper than driving the Prius, otherwise he'll just take the Prius instead.
Just as an example, the Prius costs about $0.09/mi at $4.00/gal and 45 mpg.
Assuming that your LEAF gets 3.4 mi/kWh from the wall (4.0 mi/kWh on the dash - charging losses), to beat $0.09/mi or about $0.30 / kWh.
For an hourly rate charging at 3.8 kW (240V/16A), that is $1.15/hr. Adjust the rate accordingly depending on charge rate, but what this effectively means is that unless you can charge in public at about $1/hr or less, it's cheaper to drive the Prius, unless you can charge at 30A in which case it's cheaper to drive the Prius if it costs more than $2/hr.
Now, let's look at DCQC. A typical QC might be 12 kWh (at least the QCs I've done were in that ballpark according to the Blink records from a bit above LBW to 80%). If you want to drive the LEAF, it can't cost more than $3.60 for that charge.
I challenge you to find anyone who is charging for QC anywhere near that price - it simply can't be done and still remain in business, even with subsidies. The going rate will be about double that price - $5-7 for 30 minutes on the charger.
But all this discussion about what's cheaper to fuel when public charging misses the point.
There are tons of reasons to "Just-drive-the-LEAF" instead of the Prius even when the trip requires public charging.
1. Including only the incremental cost of charging ignores the fact that you very likely charged at home for the equivalent of $0.04/mi or less - let's say you take an 90 mile trip which requires one public charge to get home and half the miles are done on electricity from home, the other half is done on public charging. To drive the Prius, this would cost you $8 in fuel. 45 miles on home electricity at $0.14/kWh could cost about $1.85 meaning that the public charge could cost up to $6.14 and it'd still be cheaper to drive the LEAF, much higher than the $4.00 you might calculate if only looking at the incremental per-mile cost instead of averaging.
2. The LEAF is nearly always cleaner than the Prius in terms of emissions - no doubt you bought the LEAF at least partially for environmental reasons? I don't know about you, but I really like clean air, water and land and really dislike hydrocarbon pollution so anything I can do to minimize that has great value to me.
3. The LEAF is much more enjoyable to drive than the Prius.
I could go on, but I think I've made my point and will get off my soapbox now and back to our on-topic discussion...
DaveinOlyWA said:
I submit Younker Nissan, 3401 E Valley Rd, Renton, WA, equipment is in the ground but not turned on yet.
Thanks, added to
the map.