Not being in initial 7 states ...

[tps]

Anyone remember how long the Tesla Roadster was delayed? There was delay after delay when that car was being launched. And the price was raised on the customers, too!

And I wonder what will happen with Nissan to us right coasters? We put down our $99 and selected MY2011 LEAFs for a certain MSRP. We'll likely get MY2012 LEAFs. Not exactly a complaint, as we may get better options as well as minor redesign based on Nissan's early 2011 experience... But, will the MSRP go down or up by the time we can order?

 

[redLEAF]

I've only been passively browsing this site as of late as I'm another 'not in the initial 7 states' currently living outside Chicago and of course we haven't seen much if any news on the LEAF out this way -- there are some mentions of new charging stations and car sharing programs have popped up in and around the city but it's not headline news like it is elsewhere. We do have a Tesla showroom out here but I have yet to see one (not counting the one seen last year around the time of the Chicago Auto Show) on regular drives but I do know that they have sold at least a few.

I guess the bottom line for us in colder climates is how do you intend to use this EV over a comparable ICE and will it fit most situations you plan to use it for -- in my case, I have a big heated garage that will easily fit the LEAF and its charger, it will not be my only car (we have four, the LEAF will replace one -- at this point an '06 Mazda3 GT 5-door hatch) and we fit the profile of most trips being relatively short unless we're traveling out of town. I could easily see the wife or myself and even our son (who has the longest commute; 44 mile round trip, all moderate speed suburban roads) using it -- when we're having heavy snows or really cold temps the wife will probably get it (7 mile round trip) so basically it will take just a bit more planning. O'Hare airport is a 36 mile round trip so that would easily be doable as well --- we would also use it most weekends (unless we plan to pick up large/heavy stuff) as I've been checking about how far we travel since this whole range thing came up and it's rare to go close to 100 miles in a single day on most weekend days for us.

I am hoping that Nissan at least brings the LEAF to the upcoming Chicago Auto Show this year (starts Feb 12th this year) as it was absent last year to show at least their eventual intent and spark more interest from the Midwest! What was interesting (sorry if OT) is that Fiat showed it's EV version of the (new to U.S.) 500 at the show, Fisker was there as well but no LEAF!

 

[sjfotos]

The "battery pack heater" uses battery power to generate the heat! except when connected to the J-1772 EVSE... the heat/AC in the vehicle uses battery power. You get stuck in one of our typical traffic jams or one of our famous 3-4 hour winter commutes, you're going to have to shutoff the heat, to have any chance of making it. What I am saying is, even though an EV could work here, drivers will have to make a lot of compromises, and many are not willing to - yet. $4,$5, or $6 gasoline, maybe more will, but larger packs would also help

With respect, Mitch, battery pack heaters are not new tech. Throw some 1/4 inch insulation around the battery box and line the bottom with these thin electric blankets and we're done.

The pack doesn't need the heater when driving - the heater will be used to keep the pack somewhat warm when the car's sitting and plugged in.

LiFePO4 can be charged when the cell core temperature is 0°C/32°F, and can be discharged down to minus 20°C -- and LiMn2O4 is better in the cold.

In the days before synthetic engine oil, we'd prepare for an Upper Peninsula winter by getting a cheap charcoal grill and breaking off the legs - it was easier to slide under the oil pan once we got the fire lit.

Love that image of the grill!

I've seen similar things on the tundra in Minnesota

Not recommended in any owner's manuals!

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

wow, another one of these threads.

i think we need to go back to "how can i make what i got work for me?"

back when i decided on the Leaf, i did not look at how the 100 mile range would not work for me. i looked at what i needed. that was 60 miles. i could do with 40 miles, but 60 would allow BOTH of us to commute gas free. i also looked at what i would prefer and that was 80 "stress free" miles. i believe the Leaf will do that without any issues. to be honest with ya, i "plan" to get around 120 miles on a charge anyway although i will very rarely use or need that.

but if i were in a colder climate, i would have to re-evaluate my needs. getting stuck in snowstorms is something i have lived thru. running out of gas is something i have lived thru. walking up to 15 miles in the middle of a Michigan winter night is something i lived thru. i prefer to not have to do that again.

so preparing for the unusually severe weather that does seem to happen much more often is always a consideration. water, blankets, extra coats, boots, etc. is all stuff i carried when i lived in MI. well, i dont carry much of that stuff anymore, at least not the cold weather stuff.

as far as disappointment, i am with you all. the wait has been unbearable, but we all have to wait. its always been a waiting game, whether it be cellphones, TVs, whatever. my cousin who came to visit me 3 years ago had a cellphone that still does more waaaay back then then what we have now. only the 4G Evo comes close (does not match it mind you!!) to what his phone could do.

so, i have to wait on that and why?? well that is how it works. so i know it sucks. but we have gone there a few times. we commiserated with you. empathesized with you, etc.

so now we come to this "the Leaf" no longer fits my need based on range and bad weather. well, that is a decision you need to make and it will be based on criteria that only you can determine.

now, i personally think that the Leaf will require a bit of sacrifice for many here on the "lucky" coast. but they are willing to make those adjustment in anticipation of having a better support structure in place, but that will take time and that better support will never happen unless the Leaf makes its goals.

now, nothing i have said here is news. if anyone chooses to leave this forum for whatever reason, i hope that you find what you are looking for. remember the success of the Leaf will insure a LOT of competition and maybe 3 years from now if i have decided not to buy and my lease expires, i may have several better options available to me and maybe we will see each other again on another forum

 

[garygid]

Forward-Thinking needed:

Norway reports having AC plug-in power available at most parking spots. How did they get there?

A small city nearby replaced all/most/many of their parking meters with new models that would take credit cards. Would it have taken much more to put an AC socket on each meter post, or two sockets on every other post?

If we keep planning to support only the past, when will we bother to do what it takes to provide for the future?

If an Eastern state made the commitment to have AC outlets at 5% of its parking spaces by 2012, that would likely catch Nissan's attention and LEAF EVs would probably arrive in that state before other "forgotten" states get "remembered".

The present "hard-wired" EVSE restrictions are unnecessary, and do not best use the existing infrastructure. But, as a step along the way, I suppose that it appeared to be a start.

The plug-in L1 EVSE will probably be replaced with a plug-in L1&L2, and a few short adapter cords. Then, only an appropriate plug-in socket will be needed, and the huge already-existing infrastructure will be easier to use.

Design a platic safety-collar to replace the existing wall socket cover plate, and a slightly different "longer, deeper" plug body to use with the collar and provide a better hand-grip, and we have a safe "euro-type" socket, without the safety issues or our "stupid" American, exposed-male-contact, "standard" plugs.

We need to start planning for the future, and DOING things to begin building the future NOW.

Yes, buying a LEAF is a good step, but spending quality time with your local Building Department might really make more "progress" for us all.

 

[evnow]

Yes, buying a LEAF is a good step, but spending quality time with your local Building Department might really make more "progress" for us all.

I'd modify that to say lobbying your local city councilman / state legislator. Find a reliable committed elected rep who can push forward needed legislature. The "progress" we have seen in western states wouldn't have been possible without some committed representatives.

Plugin org people can help as well.

 

[DaveEV]

A small city nearby replaced all/most/many of their parking meters with new models that would take credit cards. Would it have taken much more to put an AC socket on each meter post, or two sockets on every other post?

I believe that those CC parking meters are typically wireless. So it would take a decent amount of extra work to get some AC on the post - probably would have to tear up the sidewalks, run conduit to the nearest junction box (possibly light post?) Anyway, a significant expense compared to the CC parking meters which are typically paid and maintained for by the company who builds them in exchange for a clip of the parking fees.

 

[evnow]

I believe that those CC parking meters are typically wireless. So it would take a decent amount of extra work to get some AC on the post - probably would have to tear up the sidewalks, run conduit to the nearest junction box (possibly light post?) ..

They don't have power - is the wireless powered by battery ? I doubt it.

Mandating certain % of parking slots with power for all new constructions is a start. Then existing structures can be included over time ...

 

[DaveEV]

I believe that those CC parking meters are typically wireless. So it would take a decent amount of extra work to get some AC on the post - probably would have to tear up the sidewalks, run conduit to the nearest junction box (possibly light post?) ..

They don't have power - is the wireless powered by battery ? I doubt it.

Yes, they typically have a long-life lithium battery in them.

http://www.ipsgroupinc.com/parking_product_detail.php?product_line=single_space&product=model_795

Look at the installation video - they simply pull the guts and lid off the old meter, and drop the guts and lid of the new one in. Presto, you have CC/debit card parking meter with no wires!

 

[TimeHorse]

Okay, I just want to chime in on not calling the lucky 7 EV Project states. Because Washington, D.C. is an EV Project city and we're not getting to even order the LEAF until Late Summer, 2011, despite promises to the contrary up to 9pm EST 10 December 2010. This means the eye-poked 8 are only 3 or so months ahead of the Forgotten 36 and are also probably 2012 model year folks.

Also, I have no choice but to park outside and have a 76 mi round-trip commute. Will I cancel my LEAF Reservation? #$^@$%^ NO! I don't spend hours writing about EVs for the Affordable Electric Car NOW blog to give up on an EV so easily with such adversity. I'll find a way. Charge at work -- if they won't officially sanction it but fail to forbid it, I'll just hijack a 110 suspiciously. If they do create charging stations, I'll pay for it. If traffic is bad coming home, I'll know where the LEAF dealers are and have a coffee with the kind folks at the dealership while I ChaDeMo for a fair fee. I'll check the weather. I'll pre-plan. Whatever it takes, I will have my EV!

Mitch, we may not always agree politically, and I hope over the months I've been more of a help than a hindrance to you but I will always consider you a friend. Go softly now good knight for parting is such sweet sorrow.

 

[kmp647]

Funny too I get home today and find another mailer from Nissan with the stickers in my mailbox here in Va. Glad to have em but I would rather they send me some update or news and save the money on the sticker set

 

[evnow]

Okay, I just want to chime in on not calling the lucky 7 EV Project states. Because Washington, D.C. is an EV Project city and we're not getting to even order the LEAF until Late Summer, 2011, despite promises to the contrary up to 9pm EST 10 December 2010. This means the eye-poked 8 are only 3 or so months ahead of the Forgotten 36 and are also probably 2012 model year folks.

That is what makes me strongly suspect winter weather package as the culprit.

ps : I think this whole idea of starting deliveries in winter is bad. Why start people with low-low range (just look at all the 25 mile range people are getting in gm-volt).

 

[mitch672]

Just wanted to let everyone know that I put down a deposit to order a 2011 Chevy Volt, there is a dealer just 65 miles from where I live, in nearby Northeast CT, that is a Volt authorized dealer, and GM doesn't have any restrictions on selling to out of staters. This dealer has already delivered their first Volt, and the 2nd one is about to come in, as a dealer demo model.

Looks like it will be sometime in March or April before the Volt is delivered, but that's a lot better than 18 months later for a Leaf.

The Volt priced out at $44,180 with the color choice (premium paint), the premium trim package and the back up camera. The dealer sells at MSRP, no "additional dealer markup"

For me, this is a better choice than spending another $13.5K to "PHEV" my Prius, as at least it has a factory warranty... The Leaf probably would have worked as well, but I am not willing to wait another 18 months for it.

I will still read the forum and annoy you, as always. I am not cancelling the Leaf reservation, in case someone in my family needs a new car, when order time happens to roll around.

Mitch

 

[evnow]

Just wanted to let everyone know that I put down a deposit to order a 2011 Chevy Volt, there is a dealer just 65 miles from where I live, in nearby Northeast CT, that is a Volt authorized dealer, and GM doesn't have any restrictions on selling to out of staters. This dealer has already delivered their first Volt, and the 2nd one is about to come in, as a dealer demo model.

Interesting - planning to buy or lease ?

Make sure the dealer has enough quota (and he hasn't run out of his 2011 quota). Check gm-volt for the details why ...

ps : I'd done exactly this if I was in your situation.

 

[kmp647]

I think the volt is a great choice for your situation and your climate
It's a nice looking car gm has put a lot into

I hope they get you one soon.!

 

[jhm614]

Just wanted to let everyone know that I put down a deposit to order a 2011 Chevy Volt, there is a dealer just 65 miles from where I live, in nearby Northeast CT, that is a Volt authorized dealer, and GM doesn't have any restrictions on selling to out of staters. This dealer has already delivered their first Volt, and the 2nd one is about to come in, as a dealer demo model.

Looks like it will be sometime in March or April before the Volt is delivered, but that's a lot better than 18 months later for a Leaf.

The Volt priced out at $44,180 with the color choice (premium paint), the premium trim package and the back up camera. The dealer sells at MSRP, no "additional dealer markup"
Mitch

I think this is the way to go in the North East -- the LEAF battery is close but... not quite there for real winter. The traffic jams duing the current snopocalyse pointed that out. Hell, Volts are starting to show up in DFW and I'm feeling that pull!

So, the price will be mid-30's after the rebate, that's not too bad for what you get. Especially when you consider GM is losing money on them.

 

[evnow]

So, the price will be mid-30's after the rebate, that's not too bad for what you get. Especially when you consider GM is losing money on them.

I'd definitely not buy Volt. Just lease it.

BTW, the US Bank lease of $349 is expiring on Jan-3. Don't know whether GM will replace it with a subsidized lease ...

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

mitch; i understand your getting a Volt since i dont know your personal transportation situation as many here simply cannot wait that long to get new wheels. so they are saying you can get one in March? wow, nice. to be honest with ya, i am beginning to wonder about mine.

as for me, i can wait, i could have waited and i dont think i could buy a Volt. the plug in option on the Pri would have been my first choice. i have 2, neither is very old and both are paid for. a PHEV would be a cash transaction.

but my desire for 100% EV would have prevailed. i would have just gotten a Mitsubishi or whatever else came along

 

[Train]

I think that's a good move, Mitch.

Congrats and give us your impressions when you take delivery.

 

[TimeHorse]

Although I sometimes don't blog nice about the Volt, I do love it and really want it to succeed. If your daily commute is 35 miles or less, I say buy it. If it's more like 37 miles each way, as it is for me, the Volt doesn't cut it. But I hope everyone in the 35 or less range will seriously consider the Volt; it's a good car!

Anyway, I'm glad you'll still be around Mitch and personally, I love reading your rants because you express what I am too diplomatic to say.

That said, at today's EAA meeting we discussed how at least Chriswell Chevrolet was saying new Volt orders wouldn't be filled until June. Still, even 6 is 3 times better than 18!