Official BMW i3 thread

[evnow]

Is there confirmation about how useful REx would be ? If it comes on only at 5% - freeway inter-city travel could be a pain (may be not in the flatlands).

 

[surfingslovak]

Is there confirmation about how useful REx would be ? If it comes on only at 5% - freeway inter-city travel could be a pain (may be not in the flatlands).

Nothing official about the REx from BMW, but we were given an assurance at a private event that it would work just fine in a variety of situations, and even permit long-distance travel.

 

[evnow]

Nothing official about the REx from BMW, but we were given an assurance at a private event that it would work just fine in a variety of situations, and even permit long-distance travel.

BMW compromised the REx design (gas tank size etc) for some CARB rules - but won't even get the white stickers. All for nothing, apparently. Otherwise it could have been the range extender Volt should have been ...

 

[surfingslovak]

BMW compromised the REx design (gas tank size etc) for some CARB rules - but won't even get the white stickers. All for nothing, apparently. Otherwise it could have been the range extender Volt should have been ...

Yes, those are fair points, but the whole stickergate is based on guesses and opinions. It's up to the Air Resources Board to certify the i3, and make the final determination. They could literally decide anything. Even the scenario we witnessed with the 1st gen Volt is a possibility. BMW itself has never said that the i3 will get a white sticker. This was based on comments and articles from one journalist. His story was then reprinted by virtually everyone, and most of us have forgotten the source. As it often happens, once something is printed, it becomes the truth. Let's wait what CARB will decide, and if BMW has failed to achieve their stated design objective, then they will deserve all the criticism. In the meantime, everyone has to make up their mind, and I opted not to get the REx for a variety of reasons. The regulatory uncertainty being chief among them. I believe that we have another week or so to make any last-minute changes. With a little luck, we will hear from the Air Resources Board soon.

 

[evnow]

BMW itself has never said that the i3 will get a white sticker. This was based on comments and articles from one journalist.

Well, it is quite clear why BMW designed REx with the limitations we see - and those seem to match with the CARB rules as written. Highly unlikely, those two happened independently.

Also true that BMW issued a statement about stickers.

So, yes, BMW never stated they were going after white sticker - but actions of CARB (rule changes etc) and design of REx makes it obvious.

 

[surfingslovak]

Well, it is quite clear why BMW designed REx with the limitations we see - and those seem to match with the CARB rules as written. Highly unlikely, those two happened independently.

Also true that BMW issued a statement about stickers.

So, yes, BMW never stated they were going after white sticker - but actions of CARB (rule changes etc) and design of REx makes it obvious.

Agreed, the REx was designed to fit the new BEVx category, which BMW helped to define. That said, I would challenge you to find a public statement from BMW indicating that the i3 was designed to get the white sticker. I don't think it exists. It was all based on an article from Anton Wahlman, whom I happen to know personally. Below is the only official statement from BMW I would be aware of. In personal conversations, various other things might have been said, and that's in itself not wrong either. When I inquired with someone at the Air Resouces Board, they responded that any outcome is possible. A white sticker, a green sticker or no sticker at all. In regards to the CVRP, that's something Anton did not quite understand. The rebate program is separate from the sticker program, and according to CARB, if the i3 qualifies as a BEVx, then the full rebate should be issued, regardless of sticker type.

The i3 with Range Extender qualifies for the green sticker, which is limited in numbers and will run out in the eventual future (possibly late in 2014). This is technically to be expected since the car is equipped with an internal combustion engine which potentially emits fuel fumes, and thus makes it harder to qualify for the white sticker which typically can be obtained by full battery-electric vehicles (BEV) and Hydrogen vehicles. The white sticker is not limited in terms of numbers. There is a continued, constructive relationship between BMW and CARB executives, and there has been no reversal of position. It also bears mention that the i3 with Range Extender qualifies for the full CA incentive amount of $2,500 – so the statement in the original article that the owners will not receive CA state incentive money is also wrong.

 

[TomT]

Simply logic dictates that, unless BMW was not after the white sticker all along, that would not have hobbled the Rex with a 2.5 gallon gas tank. The only reason to do so was the white stickers.
I would have preferred that they ditch the white stickers and go with something more akin to the Volt.

It was all based on an article from Anton Wahlman, whom I happen to know personally. Below is the only official statement from BMW I would be aware of. In personal conversations, various other things might have been said, and that's in itself not wrong either.

 

[ydnas7]

Simply logic dictates that, unless BMW was not after the white sticker all along, that would not have hobbled the Rex with a 2.5 gallon gas tank. The only reason to do so was the white stickers.
I would have preferred that they ditch the white stickers and go with something more akin to the Volt.

It was all based on an article from Anton Wahlman, whom I happen to know personally. Below is the only official statement from BMW I would be aware of. In personal conversations, various other things might have been said, and that's in itself not wrong either.

No, BMW was after the ZEV credits, don't want to buy them from Tesla.
Volt doesn't get ZEV, thus the need for the Spark EV

 

[TomT]

That being the case, it would appear that failed at that too, thus my original comment stills stands... And I believe that any vehicle with a gas tank should automatically be denied ZEV status, so I think CARB got it right...

No, BMW was after the ZEV credits, don't want to buy them from Tesla.

 

[surfingslovak]

That being the case, it would appear that failed at that too, thus my original comment stills stands... And I believe that any vehicle with a gas tank should automatically be denied ZEV status, so I think CARB got it right...

No, BMW was after the ZEV credits, don't want to buy them from Tesla.

With all due respect you would know this how? CARB has not decided either way yet. The BEVx category was likely created to get more ZEV credits first and foremost, as ydnas7 noted above. The ZEV credits and the BEVx classification are independent of the sticker program, but related to the CVRP. The decision to create an EV program has been made much earlier, and the level resources and time committed clearly indicates that this is not a compliance car. Yes, BMW might be playing catch-up, and have different ambitions from the other OEMs in this field, but this not mean that they are not serious about putting out a good EV or investing in infrastructure.

 

[Beleaf]

Simply logic dictates that, unless BMW was not after the white sticker all along, that would not have hobbled the Rex with a 2.5 gallon gas tank. The only reason to do so was the white stickers.

Except...

The i3 Rex is sold in all markets with the same size tank. The major market is Europe.

A more likely scenario is that the BMW designers looked at all the options for the most likely uses and trip distances for the vehicle's market demographic, the weight and space penalty of carting around extra fuel, etc, etc, and decided that the optimum tank size is 9 litres.

 

[evnow]

No, BMW was after the ZEV credits, don't want to buy them from Tesla.
Volt doesn't get ZEV, thus the need for the Spark EV

If REx was compromised for ZEV, rather than white stickers, BMW has been more insidious than I thought. I hope nobody buys REx

 

[surfingslovak]

No, BMW was after the ZEV credits, don't want to buy them from Tesla.
Volt doesn't get ZEV, thus the need for the Spark EV

If REx was compromised for ZEV, rather than white stickers, BMW has been more insidious than I thought. I hope nobody buys REx

Ha, and which large business isn't? The fundamental problem with the entire stickergate is that Anton Wahlman, whom I call a friend, never really looked into the nature of the HOV decal program in California. The white stickers were originally created for alternative fuel vehicles. As the Honda Civic GX, the only CNG car marketed to consumers in the US, demonstrates, you don't need a zero-emission vehicle to get the white sticker. It must, however, use an alternative fuel. Gasoline by its very nature is not an alternative fuel. This is why gasoline hybrids have always received a different color HOV decal. First yellow, and now green.

The sticker by itself says nothing about the ZEV credits or the amount of the CVRP rebate the vehicle would qualify for. This is a causal chain Anton incorrectly followed, and everyone reprinted. Anton was wrong to state that the white sticker was the primary objective, and the rest followed from there. This is not how the regulatory framework currently in place in California works. We can argue about this forever, but BMW never publicly disclosed the design objective for the REx trim. This was all based on speculation and guesses, and some of them were even not very educated.

That said, the Air Resources Board can decide to award any type of sticker to the i3, based on their findings, and the interpretation of their own rules. After all, they control all of these programs (ZEV credits, CVRP and HOV decals). It matters little what we think, and what BMW engineers want, it's all in the hands of regulators in Sacramento.

 

[evnow]

The fundamental problem with the entire stickergate is that Anton Wahlman, whom I call a friend, never really looked into the nature of the HOV decal program in California.

What I'm saying here has little to do with Anton's article, really.

It is quite possible that all along BMW was designing REx for ZEV credits rather than white stickers.

All I'm saying is my respect for what BMW did with REx sinks even lower if it was done for credits rather than stickers (credits only benefit OEMs, stickers benefit consumers).

 

[TomT]

+1

All I'm saying is my respect for what BMW did with REx sinks even lower if it was done for credits rather than stickers (credits only benefit OEMs, stickers benefit consumers).

 

[pbennett]

BMW already lost my respect by offering little more than the Leaf for a much higher price, and with lease rates so insanely high that I fail to see why people just wouldn't get a Tesla.

 

[surfingslovak]

All I'm saying is my respect for what BMW did with REx sinks even lower if it was done for credits rather than stickers (credits only benefit OEMs, stickers benefit consumers).

+1

That's obviously your prerogative. I'm not here to advocate on behalf of BMW, but I do care about facts, and many things stated in this thread were plain wrong. I'm glad that we were able to get some more clarity on the white stickers at least.

 

[mkjayakumar]

.... by offering little more than the Leaf...

what would that "more" be in the BEV version ? Suicide doors ?

 

[surfingslovak]

.... by offering little more than the Leaf...

what would that "more" be in the BEV version ? Suicide doors ?

I hope you find that perfect EV you are looking for. When you do, please let me know, I would like to get one too.

 

[cBeam]

what would that "more" be in the BEV version ? Suicide doors ?

Sour grapes anyone? Just don't buy the car, if you don't like it or can't afford it.

Or are you interested to learn that I did not buy an Acura, Aston Martin, Audi, Bentley, ...
I did not think so.