PG&E EV Charging rates E-1 and E-9 - Not so simple

[wsbca]

Replaced all the kitchen and bath can lights with LEDs.

What specific LED products are you using? We've got CFL's everywhere and the are seeming to last slightly longer these days, and are getting less expensive, but eventually I want to cut the load even more. LED bulbs seem pretty hard to find and still quite spendy.

 

[gascant]

After getting two quotes for $3500 to do a 2nd meter, I think I might try the first summer at E9A and spend the money adding more insulation to my attic and installing a ventilator fan up there. That should help reduce the cooling load. I'll definitely program the LEAF to charge between 1-7AM.

 

[Ready2plugin]

Replaced all the kitchen and bath can lights with LEDs.

What specific LED products are you using? We've got CFL's everywhere and the are seeming to last slightly longer these days, and are getting less expensive, but eventually I want to cut the load even more. LED bulbs seem pretty hard to find and still quite spendy.

Yes they are still pretty expensive....$50 per can at Home Depot, but they were super easy to put in and much better lighting. We have them on a dimmer as well, and they work great...no flicker. They do qualify for a tax deduction as a home energy reduction.

EcoSmart E26 10.5-Watt (65W) LED Down light Light Bulb

 

[DaveEV]

After getting two quotes for $3500 to do a 2nd meter, I think I might try the first summer at E9A and spend the money adding more insulation to my attic and installing a ventilator fan up there. That should help reduce the cooling load. I'll definitely program the LEAF to charge between 1-7AM.

Be very careful with your attic fan selection. Many will draw a couple hundred watts and will use more energy than they save.

My preference in this order if you're worried about attic heat gain in summer:

• Insulation - minimum R30 - better is R50 or so
• Vents - make sure your eave vents and roof vents are large enough to ensure adequate natural ventilation
• Solar attic fan - if you still feel like there's too much heat up there

Insulation also has the added benefit of keeping your house warmer in winter.

 

[Spies]

I'll definitely program the LEAF to charge between 1-7AM.

You mean 12 midnight to 7 AM right? No point not taking advantage of the whole 7 hour window in the summer.

 

[gascant]

I'll definitely program the LEAF to charge between 1-7AM.

You mean 12 midnight to 7 AM right? No point not taking advantage of the whole 7 hour window in the summer.

My typical commute will consume 15-16 kWh/day or up to 18 if I go out for lunch, possibly more when I take people for test drives. So I figure it will take 5-6 hours to charge the LEAF at night. I might start at 12:05AM just to be safe ;-)

 

[gascant]

After getting two quotes for $3500 to do a 2nd meter, I think I might try the first summer at E9A and spend the money adding more insulation to my attic and installing a ventilator fan up there. That should help reduce the cooling load. I'll definitely program the LEAF to charge between 1-7AM.

Be very careful with your attic fan selection. Many will draw a couple hundred watts and will use more energy than they save.

My preference in this order if you're worried about attic heat gain in summer:

• Insulation - minimum R30 - better is R50 or so
• Vents - make sure your eave vents and roof vents are large enough to ensure adequate natural ventilation
• Solar attic fan - if you still feel like there's too much heat up there

Insulation also has the added benefit of keeping your house warmer in winter.

Thanks for the tips. I was thinking of adding R19 batts to the blown in stuff that's already there (cost of around $850), and a ventilator fan--right now it gets well over 120 degrees up there in the summer and the natural convection is poor. I've considered a solar powered fan but I'm skeptical of roofers walking on my concrete tiles and causing more harm than good. Are you thinking I should add R30?

 

[DeaneG]

A reflective film radiation barrier up against the roof rafter bottoms might help too, if there's room to get in and staple it.

 

[Spies]

A reflective film radiation barrier up against the roof rafter bottoms might help too, if there's room to get in and staple it.

I never thought of doing that and now plan to check it out, thanks.

I might start at 12:05AM just to be safe ;-)

The Leaf timers are settable in 10 minute increments so you can make it 12:10 You can also deviate the network set clock that the timer uses in one minute increments if you wanted to get even more ocd like I am sometimes I found that my time of use meter is 44 seconds slower than the network clock in the Leaf so I adjusted it to be one minute slow. I adjusted the clock in the dash to be one minute fast to compensate

 

[gascant]

A reflective film radiation barrier up against the roof rafter bottoms might help too, if there's room to get in and staple it.

I'd do that if I were re-roofing for sure. Given my particular roof and attic, it would probably be a huge deal as I'd be on my stomach and back a good chunk of the time. Actually, given that the windows are so poor, I might just knock down the whole house and start over

 

[DaveEV]

Thanks for the tips. I was thinking of adding R19 batts to the blown in stuff that's already there (cost of around $850), and a ventilator fan--right now it gets well over 120 degrees up there in the summer and the natural convection is poor. I've considered a solar powered fan but I'm skeptical of roofers walking on my concrete tiles and causing more harm than good. Are you thinking I should add R30?

I would go R30 - the increase in cost should be nominal. How thick is your existing blow-in insulation? Do the insulation first - I think you'll find that will cut your heat gain more than enough to avoid the attic fan. When the additional insulation is installed, make sure you install rafter vents if you don't already have them so you don't block the existing vents you have.

 

[gascant]

Thanks for the tips. I was thinking of adding R19 batts to the blown in stuff that's already there (cost of around $850), and a ventilator fan--right now it gets well over 120 degrees up there in the summer and the natural convection is poor. I've considered a solar powered fan but I'm skeptical of roofers walking on my concrete tiles and causing more harm than good. Are you thinking I should add R30?

I would go R30 - the increase in cost should be nominal. How thick is your existing blow-in insulation? Do the insulation first - I think you'll find that will cut your heat gain more than enough to avoid the attic fan. When the additional insulation is installed, make sure you install rafter vents if you don't already have them so you don't block the existing vents you have.

6" of blown in cellulose--just enough to fill the joist/truss cavities. I'll lay the batts perpendicular. You're right, R30 isn't that much more. Just have to get the motivation to do it--maybe after it rains next week and the attic is a little cooler

 

[HarryHouck]

Yes, I think I'm going to keep my E6 TOU schedule, which is a better fit for solar panels. The E9 off-peak rates are a bit cheaper than E6, but I'm not going to be pulling a lot of juice for the LEAF. E9 also has a "phase shift" on the tiers, but that doesn't matter if your solar panels can keep you in tier 1.

Ray

I'm doing this as I type in Fresno. Have to replace an old 100a panel with 200a. The juice will flow better, right?

 

[JimK]

I wanted to install a dual meter adaptor to get the PG&E E9-A rate. My city allowed it and sold me a permit however PG&E no longer allows them. So then asked about series (subtractive) metering, got a big NO from PG&E. So with 5 months of summer and 5 months of winter Smartmeter data I made the Excel sheet from hell. It accounts for winter/summer, day of week, time of use, all the rate tiers in my zone for E1, E9A & E9B. The bottom line for me with an estimated 10.7Kwh/day to charge the Leaf…

$1705. per year, E1 without a Leaf
$3847. per year, E1 with a Leaf
$3175. per year, E9A with a Leaf
$2067. per year, E9B with a Leaf

So the Leaf will cost me (not including utility tax)
$2142. E1
$1470. E9A
$ 362. E9B

I don’t have solar yet, so for me the pay back to add the second meter (E9B) is looking pretty good. Note to PG&E: With all the math required to calculate the time of use rates I can’t believe that the backend software for series subtractive metering (main meter – EV meter) could be that hard. It would save us early adopters a lot on EVSE installation! I know the only way to enable the “easy” installation is for me to complete the full split service entrance two meter E9B install. Where is the PUC when you need them?

 

[astrorob]

$1705. per year, E1 without a Leaf
$3847. per year, E1 with a Leaf
$3175. per year, E9A with a Leaf
$2067. per year, E9B with a Leaf

what's your constant consumption like and how much do you plan on using during summer days (like for AC and stuff?)

i ask because i used the tesla guy's spreadsheet (and updated all the rates) and it shows that E9A and E1 are very comparable for my load. and i have a background consumption of something like 12KWh per day just from computers and stuff...

i can't believe that it is true - i was expecting to find the same as you computed above... but on the other hand we only have to use AC for maybe 2 weeks a year here...