Please complain to Nissan to fix the climate control

[DaveinOlyWA]

ok after reviewing the edited OP, i think you need to take your car in. your auto mode works nothing like mine. i rarely use it, so i used it today less than an hour ago just to see what it did.

i turned it on, temp set to 78º. it took a minute or two before the fan came on. and it started at low speed. 50 seconds later, it kicked up a notch. 70 seconds after that, it kicked up another. then 75 seconds later it kicked up another and then again about 15 seconds after that. so in about 7=8 minutes it was 2 notches below maximum fan speed and warm. OAT was 37º did not run it beyond that

now, as far as the timing goes. it could be different from a cold start. i was at appt for 45 minutes. left it, drove about 3 miles before parking (i did this while plugged in) with only occasional bursts of defrost. we are in a "no rain" spurt so its much colder than normal, but humidity is low (low for here anyway)

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

As for the OP, I don't get what the problem is, when I don't care about range I just set the CC to auto after prewarming and I'm happy as a clam, it's just that this eats range and can't be done for the long trips (in excess of 60 milesish).

I have edit the original posting, but really, this is not that difficult to comprehend. I don't really care if you are happy to prewarm the car. This thread is not about how to manually operate the HVAC system to get what you want.

I expect the automatic system to automatically spend the energy necessary to get the temperature up or down to the target when it is set on Auto, and that is what this topic is about.

If I were you, I'd take your car to a dealer, the issue you are describing sounds like a malfunction... at least something I have not experienced and as far as I can tell is not the number one thing we all need to be telling Nissan, IMHO.

 

[LeafinThePark]

-give me a way to use the circulating fan without engaging heat or AC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

+1

 

[johntaves]

If you push the "auto" button, you can see the fan speed briefly displayed. It has 7 bars. When I start out on a cold morning, it shows 2 bars of fan speed. I can understand that it won't blow more than the minimum until the heater is producing warm air. Once it does produce warm air, it jumps to 3 bars. I have never seen it go past 3 bars. I can be freezing my butt off in the car, but it won't budge from 3 bars. If I push the fan speed up to 7, the interior warms much much faster.

Has anyone ever seen the auto fan go past 3 bars? I want to know if this is busted on my car or is mine normal.

 

[saywatt]

Has anyone ever seen the auto fan go past 3 bars? I want to know if this is busted on my car or is mine normal.

No, not on mine either. I manually increase the fan speed all the time.

I think it's obvious from reading this entire string and several others on this forum that the Leaf has CC issues, especially here in the PNW. We all have different experiences but it's an issue non the less. My experiences match closer to john's than they do others. Can we get by with what we got—yes, probably, but the Leaf's CC is definitely not what you find in the standard car.

 

[johntaves]

We all have different experiences but it's an issue non the less. My experiences match closer to john's than they do others.

I don't think the other posters actually read the original posting properly or they don't really comprehend that a system in "auto" mode should increase the fan speed to full blast when there is a large difference in the target and current temperature, when the system is producing the heat or cool air necessary to get it to the target temperature.

Did you send an email to them? Please do.

 

[kmp647]

I have seen 4 of 7 fan speed bars on auto mode

it was 19F car had been sitting outside for 2 days

started car left it in park to set up charge timer, had heat on 72F auto

fan ramped up to 4 bars, heat comes on quicker than my honda element on a cold start!

 

[johntaves]

I have seen 4 of 7 fan speed bars on auto mode

it was 19F car had been sitting outside for 2 days

started car left it in park to set up charge timer, had heat on 72F auto

fan ramped up to 4 bars, heat comes on quicker than my honda element on a cold start!

That is pathetic. A 53F difference in temp is clearly enough to warrant full fan speed. I have not been below 32F. I wonder if yours dropped to 3 bars as it got above the 30s inside.

This proves the system controls the fan speed. It is not a temperature only auto system. I have checked the website and came away convinced I had every reason to expect an HVAC that automatically controls both the temp and the fan speed.

Please submit a complaint to nissan.

 

[smkettner]

What is the energy usage? As long as the heating element is using close to 5 kW more fan speed may not heat the vehicle faster.

 

[saywatt]

Did you send an email to them? Please do.

No I didn't. I think, from reading other posts, that Nissan may monitor parts of this forum. It is my feeling that we will get better results if we continue intelligent discussions and let Nissan resolve, or not, any issues they deem important.

The Leaf is a new car with new technology. Nissan has given us a darn good first step in what I hope is a perminent new revolution. If I have to make a few manual adjustments to the CC system, I'll handle it like I do when I drive by a gas station.........try and keep from laughing out loud! :lol:

 

[johntaves]

The Leaf is a new car with new technology. Nissan has given us a darn good first step in what I hope is a perminent new revolution. If I have to make a few manual adjustments to the CC system, I'll handle it like I do when I drive by a gas station.........try and keep from laughing out loud! :lol:

It makes no sense to do some sort of value judgment about the whole product and whether you think Nissan did enough. Before I purchased it, I was able to see the carpet and seat quality, so I was not ripped off by the fact that those were dreadfully cheap. It is unreasonable to make me test whether the HVAC system does what they advertised. Who would ever dream to ask if the engineers put the heating element on the other side of a water based heat exchanger, thus wrecking one of the benefits of an electric car?

This is a simple business transaction. They advertised an automatic climate control system and did not deliver it. I advertised US dollars and delivered. (the nissan website says the leaf has "Automatic Temperature Control (ATC)", but I thought I checked this a few weeks ago and it did not say that. I thought it said "Automatic Climate Control". It does not matter if they did or did not change that text because it still does not advertise the feature properly. The "auto" button takes over the fan speed.)

Am I happy to have an electric car? Yes, absolutely. Do I think Nissan made an excellent electric car? No, not even close. As far as I can tell they screwed up all the features that should have been better in an electric car. It should have a better HVAC system than an ICE car, because it is an electric car. Instead, it is worse. If electric seats make sense in an ICE car, they make even more sense in an electric car. Do we have electric seats? No.

They did not comprehend that the car is used 99.9% of the time going to/from the garage charger, and spent way too much engineering time showing me where other charging stations are as if this was a low range gas car. Instead they should have spent that engineering time to make a system that provides the information about whether home is within range. The low energy warning should not sound when I am nearing home, it should sound when home is on the edge of range and I deviate from the route home. The HVAC system should not spend energy if getting home is going to be a problem.

They made the same mistakes in their marketing. At the test drive thing in Tukwilla last year, they spent an inordinate amount of time and money attempting to convince buyers that this was just like a gas car. What a waste.

They wasted a bunch of money on that stupid dashboard display that you see through the wheel (pointless temperature gauge, useless left/right dots, and range gauge that could not be more juvenile). They wasted space and engineering money on that idiotic tach thingy with the imbecile trees. How could engineers spend so much time making this crap and not realize that these things are entirely useless? I don't have a problem if they were able to crank these things out in an afternoon, and never gave them another thought, but they spent months on this. They spent time on that crap instead of ensuring that the HVAC worked properly.

I might have been willing to give them the benefit of the doubt with regards to engineering costs, but having blown so much engineering money on that childish display, they have made it clear they did not have budget problems.

Should we give them a pass on this simply because they made an electric car? No. No way. This is entirely inexcusable.

 

[TangoKilo]

I've complained... For what it's worth... :ugeek:

 

[johntaves]

I've complained... For what it's worth... :ugeek:

It is worth a lot. Thank you very much.

 

[lpickup]

Just as a data point, I've never owned a car with automatic climate control (until the LEAF) but have ridden many times in my father's Cadillac that does and I noticed that the fan never went to max there either, even after the engine was warm, the cabin was cold and the system was just turned on. It got CLOSE to max (maybe 3/4ths) but never went to full blast. I figured that some engineer must have decided that after a certain point running the fan faster didn't necessarily heat the cabin any quicker (either because of the perception of an uncomfortable "wind" or the air flowing through a fast fan didn't have enough time to gain sufficient heat), so I even started not running the fan in my own cars at full blast.

Even so, it should probably go faster than 3 out of 7.

 

[johntaves]

... my father's Cadillac that does and I noticed that the fan never went to max there either, even after the engine was warm, the cabin was cold and the system was just turned on. It got CLOSE to max (maybe 3/4ths) but never went to full blast.

Yes, GM's automatic system had a "max" setting that you could choose to get 100% fan. I agree with your interpretation, that the fan was too loud and the benefit was too small.

You could argue that 7/7 speed is too loud for the benefit on the Leaf for the Auto mode to go there, but I would disagree. I agree with you that 5/7, or 6/7 are not too loud and useless for Auto mode, and it does not go there and therefore it is a faulty design.

 

[smkettner]

Does the heat go to recirculating air when very cold?

Recirculating might fog the windows, max fresh cold air might take far more energy to heat.
In the Caddy the available heat is huge and free so I can see it may crank the fan more than Leaf.

 

[EVDRIVER]

The Leaf is a new car with new technology. Nissan has given us a darn good first step in what I hope is a perminent new revolution. If I have to make a few manual adjustments to the CC system, I'll handle it like I do when I drive by a gas station.........try and keep from laughing out loud! :lol:

It makes no sense to do some sort of value judgment about the whole product and whether you think Nissan did enough. Before I purchased it, I was able to see the carpet and seat quality, so I was not ripped off by the fact that those were dreadfully cheap. It is unreasonable to make me test whether the HVAC system does what they advertised. Who would ever dream to ask if the engineers put the heating element on the other side of a water based heat exchanger, thus wrecking one of the benefits of an electric car?

This is a simple business transaction. They advertised an automatic climate control system and did not deliver it. I advertised US dollars and delivered. (the nissan website says the leaf has "Automatic Temperature Control (ATC)", but I thought I checked this a few weeks ago and it did not say that. I thought it said "Automatic Climate Control". It does not matter if they did or did not change that text because it still does not advertise the feature properly. The "auto" button takes over the fan speed.)

Am I happy to have an electric car? Yes, absolutely. Do I think Nissan made an excellent electric car? No, not even close. As far as I can tell they screwed up all the features that should have been better in an electric car. It should have a better HVAC system than an ICE car, because it is an electric car. Instead, it is worse. If electric seats make sense in an ICE car, they make even more sense in an electric car. Do we have electric seats? No.

They did not comprehend that the car is used 99.9% of the time going to/from the garage charger, and spent way too much engineering time showing me where other charging stations are as if this was a low range gas car. Instead they should have spent that engineering time to make a system that provides the information about whether home is within range. The low energy warning should not sound when I am nearing home, it should sound when home is on the edge of range and I deviate from the route home. The HVAC system should not spend energy if getting home is going to be a problem.

They made the same mistakes in their marketing. At the test drive thing in Tukwilla last year, they spent an inordinate amount of time and money attempting to convince buyers that this was just like a gas car. What a waste.

They wasted a bunch of money on that stupid dashboard display that you see through the wheel (pointless temperature gauge, useless left/right dots, and range gauge that could not be more juvenile). They wasted space and engineering money on that idiotic tach thingy with the imbecile trees. How could engineers spend so much time making this crap and not realize that these things are entirely useless? I don't have a problem if they were able to crank these things out in an afternoon, and never gave them another thought, but they spent months on this. They spent time on that crap instead of ensuring that the HVAC worked properly.

I might have been willing to give them the benefit of the doubt with regards to engineering costs, but having blown so much engineering money on that childish display, they have made it clear they did not have budget problems.

Should we give them a pass on this simply because they made an electric car? No. No way. This is entirely inexcusable.

You are 100% correct. For those of us that have been around EVs for any time it is clear that outside the drive system and pack (so far) the LEAF is a sad modern EV implementation. They tried to make it so much like a gas car they made it worse then a gas car. They put in numb, boosted steering for old fart demographics and the Japanese market, a POS NAV system that was rushed, materials below econobox level, paper-thin paint, and a heating system that has been used for lazy-man EV converters over 10 years. The entire experience is dumbed down and to bat they chickened out on a 6.6kw charger at he last minute it would seem.

To make matters worse, they are still not completely listening to customers openly , only selectively because they still think all vocal EV drivers don't represent the mass customer base. They still have an attitude and closed mind and I have seen this as recently as the last couple of weeks from the management team. Nissan needs to drop some of the ICE car ego and blinders and start waking up faster. This is all very old news. For those that have never owned an EV before I can see how this may not be evident. The LED headlights were done well and at least it is here today but they really messed up some things that easily could have been avoided if they perhaps drove one for a while. I seriously double the NAV product manager used the product on a regular basis.

 

[hill]

I've complained... For what it's worth... :ugeek:

It is worth a lot. Thank you very much.

I'll complain about climate control for you ... if YOU will complain about R.F.I caused by the onboard charger, for me.
:?

 

[bradleygibson]

Great post, John.

While I'm not personally as hot about this as you might be, I think you are right on the money.

A heat pump is capable of exceeding the efficiency of even a perfect resistive heating system. The Leaf should have a heat pump.

The climate controls are *always* fighting. I don't want to smell the stinky 35-year-old diesel car idling at the light in front of me so I'll just put my climate control on recirculate (interior air). What?? I can't?? Because it is currently exhausting toward the windshield?? WTF??

Every time I touch a button it decides it knows best and resets things I didn't touch "for me".

I've come to realize that a knob is worth a thousand buttons.

I don't need a range estimator in my dash display. I'd be perfectly happy with a GOM that was a SOC meter. At least this should be a configurable option.

With you on temp, trees and all the other stuff I rarely use. I do find myself using the bubbles though, and the little, subtle regen circles.

I'd rather have seen an efficiency gauge with a greater range (it maxes out too easily); Auto-resetting trip meters; GPS correlated downloadable telemetry available from the car's built-website. Oh, and I'd like to have seen the car have a built-in website, with lots of cool data available to browse.

I think many of the more serious lapses come from the inability to let go of conventional thinking. (for example, absolutely agree with you on when range warnings should be issued.)

Thanks again for the thought-provoking post.
-Brad

The Leaf is a new car with new technology. Nissan has given us a darn good first step in what I hope is a perminent new revolution. If I have to make a few manual adjustments to the CC system, I'll handle it like I do when I drive by a gas station.........try and keep from laughing out loud! :lol:

It makes no sense to do some sort of value judgment about the whole product and whether you think Nissan did enough. Before I purchased it, I was able to see the carpet and seat quality, so I was not ripped off by the fact that those were dreadfully cheap. It is unreasonable to make me test whether the HVAC system does what they advertised. Who would ever dream to ask if the engineers put the heating element on the other side of a water based heat exchanger, thus wrecking one of the benefits of an electric car?

This is a simple business transaction. They advertised an automatic climate control system and did not deliver it. I advertised US dollars and delivered. (the nissan website says the leaf has "Automatic Temperature Control (ATC)", but I thought I checked this a few weeks ago and it did not say that. I thought it said "Automatic Climate Control". It does not matter if they did or did not change that text because it still does not advertise the feature properly. The "auto" button takes over the fan speed.)

Am I happy to have an electric car? Yes, absolutely. Do I think Nissan made an excellent electric car? No, not even close. As far as I can tell they screwed up all the features that should have been better in an electric car. It should have a better HVAC system than an ICE car, because it is an electric car. Instead, it is worse. If electric seats make sense in an ICE car, they make even more sense in an electric car. Do we have electric seats? No.

They did not comprehend that the car is used 99.9% of the time going to/from the garage charger, and spent way too much engineering time showing me where other charging stations are as if this was a low range gas car. Instead they should have spent that engineering time to make a system that provides the information about whether home is within range. The low energy warning should not sound when I am nearing home, it should sound when home is on the edge of range and I deviate from the route home. The HVAC system should not spend energy if getting home is going to be a problem.

They made the same mistakes in their marketing. At the test drive thing in Tukwilla last year, they spent an inordinate amount of time and money attempting to convince buyers that this was just like a gas car. What a waste.

They wasted a bunch of money on that stupid dashboard display that you see through the wheel (pointless temperature gauge, useless left/right dots, and range gauge that could not be more juvenile). They wasted space and engineering money on that idiotic tach thingy with the imbecile trees. How could engineers spend so much time making this crap and not realize that these things are entirely useless? I don't have a problem if they were able to crank these things out in an afternoon, and never gave them another thought, but they spent months on this. They spent time on that crap instead of ensuring that the HVAC worked properly.

I might have been willing to give them the benefit of the doubt with regards to engineering costs, but having blown so much engineering money on that childish display, they have made it clear they did not have budget problems.

Should we give them a pass on this simply because they made an electric car? No. No way. This is entirely inexcusable.

 

[johnr]

I'd rather have seen an efficiency gauge with a greater range (it maxes out too easily)...

The problem with the efficiency gauge is they represent it in miles/kwh when they should use kwh/mi. The former is very logarithmic, the latter is linear.