Quick Charging Stations a Nissan Dealerships

[LakeLeaf]

My dealer i think said two QC four L2.

That's interesting. I wonder what the thought process behind that is.

From empty, one QC charger can charge (nominally) 16 cars in 8 hours while one L2 can charge only a single car in 8 hours. If the dealer thinks they will have that much charging business, I wonder why they didn't just install a third QC.

To speculate on my own question - I would guess the dealer might want to charge his demo cars overnight to protect battery life to some extent? There might also be some power availability limits at the dealer? Those are the only two that I can come up with off the top of my head. Of course there is cost, but the cost of L2 / car / charging hour is arguably the same as QC. (16 L2's @ $1000 ~= 1 QC @ $17000)

 

[planet4ever]

Ah, but what if you have half a dozen cars whose charge you want to top off? Besides, just on a pure cost basis, using your numbers the third QC would cost $9,000 more than four L2's you propose that it replace. It's the same theory as why we carry change in our pockets rather than just bills.

 

[evnow]

One other thing to note is - businesses get $50K off in tax credits. So, they would want to spend about $100K - but no more.

 

[LEAFer]

Is the business rule also 50% limited (like personal ... 50% of $4k) ? Or only absolute $ limited ?

 

[garygid]

Or, was the "commercial" tax credit 50% of charger/EVSE/install cost, limited to 50% of $100k = $50k?

 

[evnow]

Businesses : 50% off. $50K max.
Individuals : 50% off. $2K max.

ps : So if a business spends $100K - they get $50K credit. If they spend $150K, they still get only $50K.

 

[LakeLeaf]

Alternative Fuel Vehicle Refueling Property Credit


For property placed in service in tax years beginning in 2009 and 2010, the alternative fuel vehicle refueling property credit is increased. For property that relates to hydrogen, the maximum credit per location is increased to $200,000. For all other property, the credit percentage is increased to 50% and the maximum credit per location is increased to $50,000 ($2,000 for nondepreciable property).

For more information, see Form 8911, Alternative Fuel Vehicle Refueling Property Credit.


My read is that businesses get 50% tax credit up to a maximum of $50,000.

 

[evnow]

My read is that businesses get 50% tax credit up to a maximum of $50,000.

That is right. I'll update my post to make it clear.

 

[LakeLeaf]

Ah, but what if you have half a dozen cars whose charge you want to top off? Besides, just on a pure cost basis, using your numbers the third QC would cost $9,000 more than four L2's you propose that it replace. It's the same theory as why we carry change in our pockets rather than just bills.

If I had a half a dozen cars I wanted to top off, I'd look to use the QC rather then the L2 as the QC is 16 times faster. Even with 4 - L2, one QC is still 4x faster then they are combined. Just make sure the cord is long enough to reach several cars without jockeying them around.

I think I was guessing that the reason for the 4 - L2's in addition to the 2 - QC's would be for something besides either capacity or cost.

 

[jkirkebo]

If I had a half a dozen cars I wanted to top off, I'd look to use the QC rather then the L2 as the QC is 16 times faster. Even with 4 - L2, one QC is still 4x faster then they are combined. Just make sure the cord is long enough to reach several cars without jockeying them around.

But the QC is only "quick" up to 80%, after that it tapers off and uses a lot more time to get to 100%. If you have four cars you need to charge from 80% to 100% ("top off") it's quite concievable that four L2s will be faster than a single L3 QC used in sequence. It' s going to be a lot less work too.

 

[garygid]

I agree, getting cars "topped up" for the more-distant owner to be able to drive back home ... is a significant, but only occasional issue.

It is probably expected that most owners will live within 35 miles of their "service" dealer, and that an 80% full e-tank will be sufficient to get almost all customers back home. Those who live closer will generally get back home without any dealer-recharging.

If you cannot wait for the service, and live too far for a dealer's courtesy shuttle, a two-car strategy would seem to be required.

 

[LakeLeaf]

I don't see the QC listed as an option in the UK - it appears to be standard equipment there.

Also, for Leaf dealers in the UK:

Rapid charging [Direct Current 50 KW]

This charging method allows you to achieve 80% State of Charge (SOC) in around 30mins

The rapid chargers are displayed on your LEAFs satellite navigation screen. Use the refresh function to update the list and maps when necessary.

Once you have identified the nearest charging point, plug the cable attached to the rapid charger station in the left hand socket (larger one). The 3 LEDs on the dashboard will display the current status of your charge. To stop charging, push the button on the charger and unplug the cable.

From March 2011, all Nissan EV accredited dealers will have a rapid charger at their dealership.

 

[evnow]

I don't see the QC listed as an option in the UK - it appears to be standard equipment there.

Ofcourse, Leaf is significantly higher priced in UK ($36,378 before rebates and VAT) - and they are probably more confident of chademo being the standard ...

 

[smkettner]

My dealer i think said two QC four L2.

That's interesting. I wonder what the thought process behind that is.

From empty, one QC charger can charge (nominally) 16 cars in 8 hours while one L2 can charge only a single car in 8 hours. If the dealer thinks they will have that much charging business, I wonder why they didn't just install a third QC.

To speculate on my own question - I would guess the dealer might want to charge his demo cars overnight to protect battery life to some extent? There might also be some power availability limits at the dealer? Those are the only two that I can come up with off the top of my head. Of course there is cost, but the cost of L2 / car / charging hour is arguably the same as QC. (16 L2's @ $1000 ~= 1 QC @ $17000)

Consider L3 only goes to 80% but the customer expects 100% when car is picked up. So they run them up quick to 80 and then need a bunch of L2 to get 100%.

 

[LakeLeaf]

I don't see the QC listed as an option in the UK - it appears to be standard equipment there.

Of course, Leaf is significantly higher priced in UK ($36,378 before rebates and VAT) - and they are probably more confident of chademo being the standard ...

You may well be right as to both pricing and standard. I don't really know.

I have been somewhat surprised with the pricing of the Leaf in the UK - it seems unusually inexpensive to me (even though as you point out - it is close to 7% more then in the US). In the US the SL with QC runs 34420 - or just about $2000 less then in the UK. That seems to be to be quite a deal in the UK. From all of the time I've spent there - whenever I've compared the price of capital goods I've been shocked at how expensive they are - so the Leaf seems to me to be an amazing bargain.

I'd love to hear from our UK members - MikeB et. al. - if they consider the UK pricing to be exciting, or expensive, something in between.

We have never heard something from Nissan that the lack of a formal US standard had any bearing on the exclusion of QC from the standard model. As you point out - it may well be Nissan's thinking, but as far as I know that thinking has never been expressed by Nissan management.

 

[garygid]

All LEAFed-Dealers will have an QC station by March 2011?
That is GREAT NEWS!

Will they generally be available to all LEAF owners for a Quick "way-point" Charge?

If so, I could stop at Mossy Oceanside Nissan for a "Quick-e" and easily get to San Diego on the freeway.

But, what happens when I come back home and the Dealership is CLOSED?

 

[evnow]

All LEAFed-Dealers will have an QC station by March 2011?
That is GREAT NEWS!

In UK.

 

[garygid]

OH, ... in the UK ... sigh!