Range Question, 2013 Leaf

[Jimpaulette]

Hi friends:

I'm considering picking up a used 2013 Leaf S with the quick charge option. It has 12K miles and they're asking $11K.

My daily driving needs are approximately 75 miles. How will I know that this car has enough range wirh degradation to take care of what I need it for? Charging at work is not an option.

Also, I have a 220V outlet in my garage. Do I need a fast charger or do they make a regular charger with a 220 end? Can I save money on this area or should I just buy a quality charger?

I'm terribly sorry if these questions are covered somewhere else on this forum. Thanks so much for your help.

 

[Flyct]

MO, a Leaf is not for you. 75 miles daily without charging is risky even for a fresh battery Leaf, unless it's a 2016 SV/SL with 30 AHr high capacity battery.

I just did a 72 mile round trip today with 50/50 hyway/rural driving (65 mph & 40 mph) in my 3 month old 12 bar Leaf. It was a beautiful 75 degree day. I stopped at a Nissan dealer to add 30 minutes of charging (15 miles added) and arrived home with only 15 miles remaining.

In addition the stock Level 1 EVSE will take 20 hours to fully charge from fully discharged. You will need a 220 EVSE.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Look at the capacity bars - the little white bars next to the big "fuel" bars on the dash. All 12 bars left still means up to 15% capacity lost. If you have 12 bars, you can only tell if that first one is about to be lost with an app called "Leaf Spy" and an OBII diagnostic port reader. But as mentioned above, the Leaf only has the range for 75 mile trips when brand new, unless that 75 miles is at 45MPH on secondary roads. I suggest you get a Volt or, if you can find one, a Prius PHEV.

 

[Jimpaulette]

Thanks everyone! The 75 miles is primarily on secondary roads, 45-60 MPH. That said, I felt as though the range might be iffy so I wanted to double check with some more seasoned Leaf-ers.

I think I'm going to look into a Chevy Bolt, Volt, Tesla III or something else with a little more range. This way, I can be assured that I'll have the range I need.

 

[Firetruck41]

Thanks everyone! The 75 miles is primarily on secondary roads, 45-60 MPH. That said, I felt as though the range might be iffy so I wanted to double check with some more seasoned Leaf-ers.

I think I'm going to look into a Chevy Bolt, Volt, Tesla III or something else with a little more range. This way, I can be assured that I'll have the range I need.

If you are looking at new cars, a 2016 Leaf (SV or SL trim has larger 30kwh battery) may work for you, and by the time Tesla III comes out there will definitely be a next gen Leaf with 150-200 mile range. The next gen Leaf may be out near the same time as the Bolt as well, so there should be several options in your mileage range in next 18 mo-3 years.

 

[LeftieBiker]

About the 30kwh Leaf: it has an EPA estimated range of 107 miles, and that has pretty much been verified by people here who have them. I'd suggest you consider leasing one of those for 2 or 3 years if you want a new EV now (because of possible battery degradation issues I wouldn't suggest buying one right now), and if range is your primary consideration then either a Volt or maybe a Certified preowned Tesla is the way to go.

 

[ebuonaccor]

I have the 30kwh 2016 Leaf and can tell you, you will have no problem with a 75 mile commute when it is new. I went 90 miles the other day, mostly highway with temps in the mid 30's and the heat on. I made it home with 12% charge left. Once the Leaf has aged, that might be a different story. No one has had the 30kwh Leaf long enough to know how they age. I have one month and 1500 miles on my Leaf and it still claims 100% SOH via leafspy.

 

[cwerdna]

MO, a Leaf is not for you. 75 miles daily without charging is risky even for a fresh battery Leaf, unless it's a 2016 SV/SL with 30 AHr high capacity battery.

Agree. OP needs something w/significantly more range such as the above..

In addition the stock Level 1 EVSE will take 20 hours to fully charge from fully discharged. You will need a 220 EVSE.

Yes. Charging at 120 volts is too slow to replenish the battery upon return if it's drained that low. OP will need to use a 208/240 volt EVSE (would be 240 at home).

 

[pearlleaf510]

I just bought a used 13 sl. with 27k 12 bars still. full charge at 87 miles. if you do roads and drive while regenerating. it could be possible but you will almost need a full charge. and depending how empty you are when you get home you might need a 220v. I get home with about 30% so I just trickle charge .

also stay away from uphills and look for downhills

 

[mihird]

I would not advice getting a 2013-2015 Leaf for a 75 mile daily commute (secondary roads or freeways)...unless you can easily charge on the other end for 4 hours on L1 or 1 hour on L2.

I used a 2013 for a 60 mile round trip and an occasional 86 mile round trip commute for 3 years. Both had mixed driving (secondary and freeway)...by the 3rd year it was barely able to complete even the 60 mile roundtrip.

You can only do 75 miles in good weather for the first 30,000 miles on the odomoter on the 24Kwh battery. After that the capacity will drop and will force you to look for charging at the other end. It would work on a new lease for 36K miles...but since you are buying, I would advice against it.

 

[MowAlon]

I would not advice getting a 2013-2015 Leaf for a 75 mile daily commute (secondary roads or freeways)...unless you can easily charge on the other end for 4 hours on L1 or 1 hour on L2.

I used a 2013 for a 60 mile round trip and an occasional 86 mile round trip commute for 3 years. Both had mixed driving (secondary and freeway)...by the 3rd year it was barely able to complete even the 60 mile roundtrip.

You can only do 75 miles in good weather for the first 30,000 miles on the odomoter on the 24Kwh battery. After that the capacity will drop and will force you to look for charging at the other end. It would work on a new lease for 36K miles...but since you are buying, I would advice against it.

So.... I'm very similar to OP in that I'm looking at 2013 Leafs but I don't know enough about real world range. Luckily, my daily commute is only 50 miles roundtrip (almost exactly), but it's all highway. Frequent heavy traffic means it's often not highspeed, but for the sake of being conservative, let's assume it's 70mph most of the way and that I've got the heat or AC on all the time.

Basically, what I'm asking is if I'm crazy for considering a Leaf if my daily commute is an aggressive 50 miles with no option for charging at work.

All thoughts are appreciated.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I comes down to where you live. If you don't need much (or better still, any) heat, it might be doable at 60-65MPH. If you need heat in Winter, or need to actually go 70MPH, then no.

 

[cwerdna]

So.... I'm very similar to OP in that I'm looking at 2013 Leafs but I don't know enough about real world range. Luckily, my daily commute is only 50 miles roundtrip (almost exactly), but it's all highway. Frequent heavy traffic means it's often not highspeed, but for the sake of being conservative, let's assume it's 70mph most of the way and that I've got the heat or AC on all the time.

Basically, what I'm asking is if I'm crazy for considering a Leaf if my daily commute is an aggressive 50 miles with no option for charging at work.

Can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

Please see the range charts at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293, including the "Use this 93%, 82%...." etc. charts for the ones where there's capacity loss. http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery#Battery_Capacity_Behavior is supposedly the amount of capacity remaining when each of the 12 capacity bars vanishes.

On a new 24 kWh Leaf, if you want 70 mph w/no heat and no AC on level ground w/no rain, snow, etc., you could probably get 68 miles of range until dead. If you have a 4 bar loser (8 CBs remaining), that'd be down to 43 miles.

The heater uses energy since there's almost no free waste heat. Rain, slow or slush will increase rolling friction. There will be some temporary capacity loss in the cold.

At first, it might be ok, but will eventually be more of a problem over time. The battery will degrade quite badly in hot climates (e.g. Phoenix) and not nearly as bad in say the Seattle area.

 

[jjeff]

Also AFA heat, unless your talking about single digit temps(and below) try and avoid a S models which have a more energy hog heating system, the '13 and beyond SV/SL's have a heatpump system that would extend your range, even when running the heater. In single digits and colder the heatpump system doesn't make as much difference.
I have a '13 S and in the summer can make a 60 mile RT(70MPH) with 20+% to spare if I don't charge halfway, in the winter with heat I'd be pretty much down to low single digits with near constant heat use, my battery is in the upper 90s for SOH, a 70s% battery in the winter with constant heat use probably wouldn't make it, again this is for 60 miles. Note I preheat at home so for a good chunk of my to-work is hardly using the heater, it starts out mostly cold on the way back.

 

[powersurge]

A Leaf can easily make a 50 mile round trip on the highway only. You would end up with 30-40% battery left.

No one should be driving the Leaf at 70MPH... You are using up battery like crazy. Highway driving is best at 55 or below...

Also you should check to see if there is a Chargepoint charging station near your destination. THey are free where I live. I have one 1/2 mile from work, and put a bicycle rack on my car. I plug in, bike to work, and at lunch ride back to retrieve my car.. Transportation costs... ZERO

 

[TimLee]

...
Basically, what I'm asking is if I'm crazy for considering a Leaf if my daily commute is an aggressive 50 miles with no option for charging at work.

LEAF is bad idea.

The 24 kWh LEAF is nominally a 40 to 60 mile range vehicle, but in cold weather it is more like 30 to 35 mile range if you like heat.

At 70 mph it is a lot less.

 

[Firetruck41]

MowAlon, I would not buy a used Leaf with probably 15% or more battery degradation at this point, and expect to complete that commute without anxiety about making it home, especially in winter. In 1-2 years as the battery further degrades, you will be biting your nails every time you drive home.

 

[MowAlon]

So.... I'm very similar to OP in that I'm looking at 2013 Leafs but I don't know enough about real world range. Luckily, my daily commute is only 50 miles roundtrip (almost exactly), but it's all highway. Frequent heavy traffic means it's often not highspeed, but for the sake of being conservative, let's assume it's 70mph most of the way and that I've got the heat or AC on all the time.

Basically, what I'm asking is if I'm crazy for considering a Leaf if my daily commute is an aggressive 50 miles with no option for charging at work.

Can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

Please see the range charts at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293, including the "Use this 93%, 82%...." etc. charts for the ones where there's capacity loss. http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery#Battery_Capacity_Behavior is supposedly the amount of capacity remaining when each of the 12 capacity bars vanishes.

On a new 24 kWh Leaf, if you want 70 mph w/no heat and no AC on level ground w/no rain, snow, etc., you could probably get 68 miles of range until dead. If you have a 4 bar loser (8 CBs remaining), that'd be down to 43 miles.

The heater uses energy since there's almost no free waste heat. Rain, slow or slush will increase rolling friction. There will be some temporary capacity loss in the cold.

At first, it might be ok, but will eventually be more of a problem over time. The battery will degrade quite badly in hot climates (e.g. Phoenix) and not nearly as bad in say the Seattle area.

Whoa, that's a seriously awesome chart. Thanks. I'm in Denver, so the elevation should help with range, but it can get pretty cold in the winter months. More to the point, I'm a pretty delicate flower (very sensitive to temperature), so I tend to always have climate control on, whether heating or cooling. Luckily, the reality of my commute is almost always bumper to bumper traffic on the highway for a significant portion (can't believe I considered that a good thing here).

It really looks like I could do 50 miles, but that it would be cutting it close. I'm gonna see if I can somehow convince the property managers at my work to let me plug into an outlet on the ground near the parking, but that seems pretty unlikely. Then again, this is Colorado, so maybe I'll find some sympathetic hippies running the show.

Thanks for all the help, even if it's super confusing with the very varied opinions
You all are awesome.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Having workplace charging that's reliable (you can always use it) is much more important than having occasional L-2 (240 volt) charging available. If you can get an outlet, with 15 amps available, dedicated to EV charging at work, that is a game changer.

 

[Reddy]

I would not advice getting a 2013-2015 Leaf for a 75 mile daily commute (secondary roads or freeways)...unless you can easily charge on the other end for 4 hours on L1 or 1 hour on L2.

I used a 2013 for a 60 mile round trip and an occasional 86 mile round trip commute for 3 years. Both had mixed driving (secondary and freeway)...by the 3rd year it was barely able to complete even the 60 mile roundtrip.

You can only do 75 miles in good weather for the first 30,000 miles on the odomoter on the 24Kwh battery. After that the capacity will drop and will force you to look for charging at the other end. It would work on a new lease for 36K miles...but since you are buying, I would advice against it.

So.... I'm very similar to OP in that I'm looking at 2013 Leafs but I don't know enough about real world range. Luckily, my daily commute is only 50 miles roundtrip (almost exactly), but it's all highway. Frequent heavy traffic means it's often not highspeed, but for the sake of being conservative, let's assume it's 70mph most of the way and that I've got the heat or AC on all the time.

Basically, what I'm asking is if I'm crazy for considering a Leaf if my daily commute is an aggressive 50 miles with no option for charging at work.

All thoughts are appreciated.

Great advice from everyone. I'll add that in your situation, I would lease a new 2016. If you still want to go with a used 2013 (probably due to the perceived value and lower cost), then please assume that by 2018 you won't be able to make it in the winter. If you have another car for those really cold and/or snowy days, then go for it. Otherwise, lease new.