Steal Your Battery program: Any news? Hello Nissan?

[DaveinOlyWA]

andy says:
I will have an announcement for you on June XX.

+1. there is nothing wrong with Nissan coming out with an update even if it provides no real information. something like

" per our previous announcement, everything is falling into place quite well even if a bit slower than we had anticipated. Still a few minor details to finalize but we should have something wonderful to say in a few weeks time"

even if it takes a month (Summertime!! ) at least its something. if we heard that, then we not start getting upset for about 3 weeks which means we would only have about a week of "madness" under our belts before the announcement....

ya! that would work for me! :lol:

 

[FairwoodRed]

andy says:
I will have an announcement for you on June XX.

+1. there is nothing wrong with Nissan coming out with an update even if it provides no real information. something like

" per our previous announcement, everything is falling into place quite well even if a bit slower than we had anticipated. Still a few minor details to finalize but we should have something wonderful to say in a few weeks time"

even if it takes a month (Summertime!! ) at least its something. if we heard that, then we not start getting upset for about 3 weeks which means we would only have about a week of "madness" under our belts before the announcement....

ya! that would work for me! :lol:

Dave, Did you see this? Are you wanting more of an update? Or am I misunderstanding you?

This is Jeff from Nissan:

I did receive FairwoodRed's email and I did see the posting. I haven't engaged, because quite frankly I haven't had anything to report, and I certainly didn't want to tease or insult anyone by posting "hellos". I have responded to a number of direct emails, and I will continue to do so.

A point on the battery issues: I can tell you that this is a top subject within Nissan. It is still being worked on every day -- as much as you may find that hard to believe. In addition to the working team's activities, Billy has presented an update to the Executive Committee every month since the Arizona meeting.

This may or may not be of interest, but I think that it signifies that the Nissan executives intend for Nissan to be the EV and zero emissions leader for a long time: as of April 1, Billy reports directly to the COO, Shiga-san, and Shiga-san is now the chairman of an EV steering committee which meets regularly to identify any issues -- whether product-, service-, or sales-related -- and determine corrective actions.

Finally, Andy's definition of Spring. Andy has every intention of reporting on the issues prior to or by the time Spring is ended. Although many of us might cite Memorial Day as the end of Spring and the start of Summer, the official date of is June 20th.

You can write to me anytime. Ask me whatever is on your mind.

Jeff

 

[thankyouOB]

i write him. he answers as he sees fit. i dont take it personally or assume that he is not busy.
however, he has not answered my queries about what issues play in the decision about battery replacement pricing and policies, especially with regard to leaving us at the mercy of dealers on this issue.

he did express interest in my experience of paying 3k to have my battery pulled and stored for a 12k repair, but seemingly lost interest when he found out that it was paid largely by insurance; though i have a $500 deductible.

 

[thankyouOB]

with the LEAF selling so well on the West Coast and even the LATimes liking everything about it but its looks -- LAT is subjective to the end -- not is the time for battery install and pricing news from Nissan.
stay tuned?

 

[Glenn]

with the LEAF selling so well on the West Coast and even the LATimes liking everything about it but its looks -- LAT is subjective to the end -- now is the time for battery install and pricing news from Nissan.
stay tuned?

TYOB, the rebuttal to that goes something like: "With all this selling and liking going on, maybe we don't have to worry so much about the whole battery replacement issue after all; people are buying the darned things and isn't that the whole point?"

Though I'm sure that virtually everyone here on the Forum agrees with you.

 

[dhanson865]

with the LEAF selling so well on the West Coast and even the LATimes liking everything about it but its looks -- LAT is subjective to the end -- now is the time for battery install and pricing news from Nissan.
stay tuned?

TYOB, the rebuttal to that goes something like: "With all this selling and liking going on, maybe we don't have to worry so much about the whole battery replacement issue after all; people are buying the darned things and isn't that the whole point?"

Though I'm sure that virtually everyone here on the Forum agrees with you.

I'm literally waiting on this news and for people to actually use the new "capacity warranty" this summer to decide between getting a Prius or a Leaf for my next car.

If Nissan had jumped on this more proactively in a public fashion I would have already bought a Leaf by now without hesitating. As is I'm very much on the fence. I want the Leaf to be reliable, more so than a Prius so I can move up and stop getting oil changes, gas, spark plugs, pcv valves, engine air filters, etcetera.

I know for a fact I can consider the Leaf to not have all the moving parts/consumables of a car with a internal combustion engine but I don't know for a fact that I can consider it to be cheaper to own and operate in the TCO point of view compared to a Prius at this point. Heck I'd be happy to know it is a wash or within +- 5% of the TCO of the Prius.

I can do math all day and all night and I'm still stuck with an incomplete formula as I don't know what to pencil in for cost to exchange/replace a battery.

How many other people are waiting with the same concerns? How many more could they sell by making it clear what the battery costs to exchange/replace?

 

[evnow]

I'm literally waiting on this news and for people to actually use the new "capacity warranty" this summer to decide between getting a Prius or a Leaf for my next car.

If Nissan had jumped on this more proactively in a public fashion I would have already bought a Leaf by now without hesitating. As is I'm very much on the fence. I want the Leaf to be reliable, more so than a Prius so I can move up and stop getting oil changes, gas, spark plugs, pcv valves, engine air filters, etcetera.

Irrespective of what Nissan comes up with - lease the Leaf for 2 years. You will have more, better and cheaper options in 2 years.

 

[TomT]

And they most likely will not be from Nissan (who seems to be doing everything possible to NOT sell me another Leaf)...

Irrespective of what Nissan comes up with - lease the Leaf for 2 years. You will have more, better and cheaper options in 2 years.

 

[JPWhite]

Irrespective of what Nissan comes up with - lease the Leaf for 2 years. You will have more, better and cheaper options in 2 years.

Despite all the gnashing of teeth and uncertainty for outright purchasers of past and current Model Year LEAF's, I am still glad I purchased rather than lease. Why?

At the time of purchase, I suppose I could have gone with a 15,000 mile lease at about $380/month. I would come close to the mileage allowance, but probably snuck in OK. That was then this is now.

Clearly today's lease deals and MUCH cheaper, however coincidentally I changed job and doubled my commute. Last month was the first 'full month' commuting to the new gig. 1,900 miles for the month. In other words 23,000/year. If I were to have leased or lease new today, I'd get slaughtered at the end of a 15,000 mile/yr lease.

I believe Honda have just recently reduced their Fit EV lease cost to $259/month and made it unlimited miles. Now an unlimited mile lease WOULD at that price be attractive.

 

[thankyouOB]

How many other people are waiting with the same concerns? How many more could they sell by making it clear what the battery costs to exchange/replace?

that's a point people at Nissan should consider.

It would seem to be obvious, and your situation should ring a bell; the varied fallout from slow-walking the key battery replacement issue are important.

i also harp on whether nissan wants to leave us at the mercy of dealership pricing.

 

[walterbays]

It would seem to be obvious, and your situation should ring a bell; the varied fall out from slow-walking the key battery replacement issue are important.

Yes, and I don't think Nissan has much at risk on this issue - compared to the whole build the first mass market EV decision, that is.

If they underestimate their costs because the anticipated volumes don't materialize then they'll only suffer a loss on a low volume of battery replacements. Yet lack of a battery price is one of the two main impediments to increasing volume. (The other is charging infrastructure which they have finally started to address.) If they overestimate their costs then they can always reduce the price later.

Moreover they only need to guarantee a replacement price for current cars and those sold by some date, like Labor Day or the end of the year. And they could only offer that guaranteed price to those who signed up for some advance purchase extended battery warranty scheme.

 

[thankyouOB]

It would seem to be obvious, and your situation should ring a bell; the varied fall out from slow-walking the key battery replacement issue are important.

Yes, and I don't think Nissan has much at risk on this issue - compared to the whole build the first mass market EV decision, that is.

If they underestimate their costs because the anticipated volumes don't materialize then they'll only suffer a loss on a low volume of battery replacements. Yet lack of a battery price is one of the two main impediments to increasing volume. (The other is charging infrastructure which they have finally started to address.) If they overestimate their costs then they can always reduce the price later.

Moreover they only need to guarantee a replacement price for current cars and those sold by some date, like Labor Day or the end of the year. And they could only offer that guaranteed price to those who signed up for some advance purchase extended battery warranty scheme.

yes, but why cant we hear it from them?

you read all that talk about crappy fiats. that issue is trust. this issue is trust.
you can burn it up way faster than you can rebuild it.
they are trying to sell a new, expensive item that requires an intuitive buyer, a happy buyer.

of course, they can calculate that the numbers they annoy are small.

 

[QueenBee]

Clearly today's lease deals and MUCH cheaper, however coincidentally I changed job and doubled my commute. Last month was the first 'full month' commuting to the new gig. 1,900 miles for the month. In other words 23,000/year. If I were to have leased or lease new today, I'd get slaughtered at the end of a 15,000 mile/yr lease.

You would not have gotten slaughtered you would have just had the option of giving the car back and paying the milage or buying the car for the pre agreed price (Which would only cost marginally more for the lease fee and additional interest over what the lower market car loans were).

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Irrespective of what Nissan comes up with - lease the Leaf for 2 years. You will have more, better and cheaper options in 2 years.

Despite all the gnashing of teeth and uncertainty for outright purchasers of past and current Model Year LEAF's, I am still glad I purchased rather than lease. Why?

At the time of purchase, I suppose I could have gone with a 15,000 mile lease at about $380/month. I would come close to the mileage allowance, but probably snuck in OK. That was then this is now.

Clearly today's lease deals and MUCH cheaper, however coincidentally I changed job and doubled my commute. Last month was the first 'full month' commuting to the new gig. 1,900 miles for the month. In other words 23,000/year. If I were to have leased or lease new today, I'd get slaughtered at the end of a 15,000 mile/yr lease.

I believe Honda have just recently reduced their Fit EV lease cost to $259/month and made it unlimited miles. Now an unlimited mile lease WOULD at that price be attractive.

same boat as you. at my 2 year anniversary, I was at 24,500 miles jan 18th. since increasing my driving due to work, I am at 34,200 miles and on pace to exceed my 45,000 mile limit by October...

BUT hoping Honda's lease will encourage Nissan to do the same

 

[dhanson865]

I'm literally waiting on this news and for people to actually use the new "capacity warranty" this summer to decide between getting a Prius or a Leaf for my next car.

If Nissan had jumped on this more proactively in a public fashion I would have already bought a Leaf by now without hesitating. As is I'm very much on the fence. I want the Leaf to be reliable, more so than a Prius so I can move up and stop getting oil changes, gas, spark plugs, pcv valves, engine air filters, etcetera.

Irrespective of what Nissan comes up with - lease the Leaf for 2 years. You will have more, better and cheaper options in 2 years.

Too expensive, I don't lease cars. I'll buy and hold, but I won't lease.

Right now I can buy a low mileage used leaf with 12 bars showing for $16,000 and if Nissan doesn't get ahead of this before the 3/4 bar lists on the wiki start filling up I'll have more cheap used Leafs to choose from as they tank the resale value by killing word of mouth and flooding the used market with "bar loss leafs" (even if most of them only have 2 bars lost they'll have a stigma living under the shadow of losing the 3rd or 4th bar).

Leasing a leaf right now would cost me something like $5000 over the two years. I'd need the lease to be <$3500 for 24 months to approach the rate I'm paying on buying a used car and holding for 8 years.

 

[TomT]

The only car I have ever leased was the Leaf. As times passes, it appears to have been a smarter and smarter decision...

Too expensive, I don't lease cars. I'll buy and hold, but I won't lease.

 

[smkettner]

Too expensive, I don't lease cars. I'll buy and hold, but I won't lease.

Right now I can buy a low mileage used leaf with 12 bars showing for $16,000 and if Nissan doesn't get ahead of this before the 3/4 bar lists on the wiki start filling up I'll have more cheap used Leafs to choose from as they tank the resale value by killing word of mouth and flooding the used market with "bar loss leafs" (even if most of them only have 2 bars lost they'll have a stigma living under the shadow of losing the 3rd or 4th bar).

Leasing a leaf right now would cost me something like $5000 over the two years. I'd need the lease to be <$3500 for 24 months to approach the rate I'm paying on buying a used car and holding for 8 years.

8 yrs starting with 2 bars down? Must be counting on degradation will slow significantly. Right now I see losing a bar every year.

 

[Spies]

BUT hoping Honda's lease will encourage Nissan to do the same

I just don't see that happening as the FIT EV is a closed lease. Nissan plans to sell the LEAFs returned from a lease while Honda no doubt intends to destroy the FIT EVs. Same as Honda did with the EV Plus and it also had a closed lease with unlimited miles. I was surprised the FIT EV had limited miles in the first place and gave me hope that Honda may indeed have plans for the vehicle after the lease but now that it has unlimited miles I have lost that hope.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Too expensive, I don't lease cars. I'll buy and hold, but I won't lease.

Right now I can buy a low mileage used leaf with 12 bars showing for $16,000 and if Nissan doesn't get ahead of this before the 3/4 bar lists on the wiki start filling up I'll have more cheap used Leafs to choose from as they tank the resale value by killing word of mouth and flooding the used market with "bar loss leafs" (even if most of them only have 2 bars lost they'll have a stigma living under the shadow of losing the 3rd or 4th bar).

Leasing a leaf right now would cost me something like $5000 over the two years. I'd need the lease to be <$3500 for 24 months to approach the rate I'm paying on buying a used car and holding for 8 years.

That's an interesting analysis and if the range of a degraded LEAF works, as it would for many, it is a good strategy. Yes, the advent of a used LEAF market changes things. Those of us who decided to take the plunge and pick up a LEAF as soon as they were available didn't have that option but I, for one, certainly knew it would be more cost effective to wait for the used market to develop (since buying used makes more sense for any car). It is the price we paid to be early adopters. And part of my decision was based on trying to make the first mass-produced EV a success because it is a "big deal" to me; perhaps that was foolish.

But I do wish I had leased because the technology is changing so quickly and I am pushing the range of the LEAF for some trips in my remote rural area. Since I did purchase my car and it would be best to keep it for 20+ years, I am very interested in the replacement battery cost. It would also help a lot if we had public charge stations here so I could keep the old battery going longer, but that's another issue.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

interesting that the discussion of "lease verses buy?" has migrated to the very thread that will answer the question definitively.