TSLA corporate outlook

[Firetruck41]

The issue is the resulting intensity of the fire caused by the burning Li ion batteries. Do a Google search of other
Tesla fires where the Li ion batteries burning resulted in basically no remnants of the original vehicle other
than melted metal.

Are some unaware of the shipping restrictions on Li ion batteries in place by major freight carriers, e.g. UPS,
the result of Li ion volatility and fire intensity? And then there's the Samsung Note 7 and various Li ion laptop
batteries over the years presenting a safety hazard. Never had major issues with the older battery technologies,
e.g. NiMH, as have occurred with Li ion.

Any car that is fully involved in fire is unsurvivable in a matter of seconds, a steel car may have a steel shell left, aluminum may melt, either way you are very dead, whether your car is powered by batteries or gasoline. Your hate for Tesla is blinding you, or you don't have much common sense/experience.

You continue to obfuscate the issue, i.e. does a Li ion battery when it burns develop a more intense heat
than does burning gasoline or any other burning materials found in an ICEV? It's as simple an issue as that!

Or do you need to revert to an ad hominem discourse to avoid the issue?

I'll let you continue on that train you are stuck on, as common sense can't be taught via the interwebs. Meanwhile, dying quickly in an ICE on fire, is no better than dying quickly in a BEV on fire.

 

[Rebel44]

The issue is the resulting intensity of the fire caused by the burning Li ion batteries. Do a Google search of other
Tesla fires where the Li ion batteries burning resulted in basically no remnants of the original vehicle other
than melted metal.

Are some unaware of the shipping restrictions on Li ion batteries in place by major freight carriers, e.g. UPS,
the result of Li ion volatility and fire intensity? And then there's the Samsung Note 7 and various Li ion laptop
batteries over the years presenting a safety hazard. Never had major issues with the older battery technologies,
e.g. NiMH, as have occurred with Li ion.

Any car that is fully involved in fire is unsurvivable in a matter of seconds, a steel car may have a steel shell left, aluminum may melt, either way you are very dead, whether your car is powered by batteries or gasoline. Your hate for Tesla is blinding you, or you don't have much common sense/experience.

You continue to obfuscate the issue, i.e. does a Li ion battery when it burns develop a more intense heat
than does burning gasoline or any other burning materials found in an ICEV? It's as simple an issue as that!

Or do you need to revert to an ad hominem discourse to avoid the issue?

Temperature is slightly higher, but battery fire will develop a lot slower (compared to gasoline), so people inside have more time to leave the vehicle - to quickly create a large battery fire requires impact that will most likely kill people inside, no matter to what happens to battery.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Ruh roh... Might want to focus on the "jobs" angle. :shock:

 

[edatoakrun]

It's hard to believe the Trumpists will approve of the idea of members of the liberal elite taking 30% tax credits to put "sexy" solar roofs on their homes.

Is the Solar City takeover/bailout, financially questionable before last night, now dead already?

Trump’s sweep could be a big setback to Tesla and Elon Musk

...Some of the biggest implications for Tesla may come in the form of new U.S. energy policies that favor traditional fuel sources such as oil and coal, said Kathryn Thomson, a former top lawyer for the Federal Aviation Administration and the Department of Transportation...

Adoption of electric cars could also be affected by the expiration of tax credits associated with the technology. Under the current rules, consumers can claim up to a $7,500 credit for buying an electric car, so long as the manufacturer that produced it has not reached a federally mandated cutoff. This knocks the price of a Tesla Model 3 from $35,000 to $27,500.

The future of these tax credits may come into question based on Trump's opposition to the government picking winners and losers; once all the credits have been handed out, it would require government action to continue the program...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/11/09/trumps-sweep-could-be-a-big-setback-to-tesla-and-elon-musk/

Is Tesla the Election’s Biggest Loser?

Donald Trump is President Elect, and the stock markets are virtually flat...

One company that seems worse off today than yesterday, though, is Tesla. The Republicans and Mr. Trump haven’t exactly supported solar efforts, and Tesla is basically an alternative-energy play, particularly with its pending deal to buy SolarCity, an installer of residential solar panels. It’s hard to imagine the new government endorsing continued solar subsidies, which has boosted SolarCity in recent years.

Tesla shares are down 4.5% to $186...

http://www.barrons.com/articles/is-tesla-the-elections-biggest-loser-1478708208

Overcoming SolarCity's Language Barrier
By Liam Denning
As you know, elections breed a fair amount of cognitive dissonance.Which brings us, naturally, to the other vote taking place this month: the decision on Tesla Motors Inc.'s acquisition of SolarCity Corp., scheduled for Nov. 17.The latest ... episode came on Friday morning. International Shareholder Services Inc. issued a report urging investors to vote for the deal ...

Taking steps within confines is, of course, a ticklish task. Even Elon Musk seemed surprised at the outcome. Later that day, though, rival proxy-advisory firm Glass, Lewis & Co. took a somewhat different view:Stripped from the pretense of creating a fully-integrated renewables retailer serving a loosely framed end-market, we believe non-affiliated Tesla investors should be concerned the proposed tie-up of Tesla and SolarCity mostly amounts to thinly veiled bailout plan (sic)...

https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/articles/2016-11-07/solarcity-investors-have-language-barrier-to-overcome?utm_content=gadfly&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&cmpid%3D=socialflow-twitter-gadfly

(page 28)

Musk seems to be poised to attempt to do for homes what he did for cars, divert public benefit programs into subsidies for the well-to-do seeking new outlets for displays of conspicuous consumption.

Just as TSLA has sold a number of ~$100k BEVs, I imagine TSLA will be able to sell quite a few ~$100k solar roofs with integrated battery storage (and also maybe a few ~million dollar roofs, to The princes of Silicon Valley) if the buyers are able the cost of their fashion statements subsidized by the current 30% federal investment tax credit, and other public subsidy programs.

The WSJ gives a good overview of the scheme in the article below.

How could anybody call Tesla a cult?

Tesla CEO Elon Musk Aims to Make Solar Panels as Appealing as Electric Cars

Mr. Musk lays out vision of how his proposed merger of Tesla Motors, SolarCity would work

Elon Musk wants to make solar-roof panels as sexy as his electric luxury cars.

Mr. Musk, who is chairman of both Tesla Motors Inc. and SolarCity Corp., laid out in broad strokes his vision for how his proposed merger of the two companies would result in an integrated system of solar panels, wall-mounted batteries and electric cars...

“The goal is…to make solar roofs that look better than a normal roof, generate electricity, last longer, have better insulation and an installed cost that is less than a normal roof plus the cost of electricity,” he said.

The audience greeted his words with cheers of encouragement, including an attendee who yelled, “Save us, Elon!”

Consumers equipped with the products of the combined companies could generate enough clean energy to help reduce global greenhouse gases, he said, and score points with neighbors...

http://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-aims-to-make-solar-panels-as-appealing-as-electric-cars-1477705988

 

[edatoakrun]

Tesla seems to be pulling out all the stops to get more orders in the next 10 days, so they can be booked as deliveries by the end of this quarter.

It even sent me this email:

Price Increase for Model S 60

On November 22, 2016 the base price of Model S 60 will be increasing by $2,000. Now is the time to get behind the wheel of a Tesla...

OTOH, you might not want a car built during the TSLA end-of-quarter-rush.

The OP and another September delivery discuss their experiences here:

A horrible experience, and an open letter.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/a-horrible-experience-and-an-open-letter.80598/

 

[GRA]

Via IEVS:

Done Deal: Tesla, SolarCity Merger Approved By 85% Of Shareholders

http://insideevs.com/done-deal-tesla-solarcity-merger-approved-by-85-of-shareholders/

In a result that will surprise no one, Tesla and SolarCity shareholders voted to approve the merger between the two companies, despite industry wide woes in the US solar industry these days. In total 85% of shareholders who cast a ballot voted for the merger, a decision which Tesla CEO Elon Musk stated “your faith will be rewarded” with future results.

We should note that this 85% approval rating did not include the more than 20% of the two companies owned by Musk, as he abstained from voting. . . .

Share of TSLA traded off when the news first broke, but rebounded shortly thereafter to trade just above par. . . . The question now is: Will Tesla shareholder indeed be rewarded in their faith of Elon Musk’s direction?

 

[edatoakrun]

Sounds like Dean Wormer at the SEC has put those zany frat boys at TSLA on double secret probation...

SEC Criticizes Tesla Over ‘Tailored’ Accounting
Electric car maker has dropped non-GAAP metrics flagged by the regulator

Tesla Motors Inc. has come under fire from the Securities and Exchange Commission for using prohibited accounting metrics and sharing that information with investors, according to regulatory correspondence.

The SEC said Tesla in its August earnings release used “individually tailored” measurements when the electric-vehicle maker added back certain costs to revenue calculated under generally accepted accounting principles. While the SEC allows the use of some non-GAAP metrics, certain figures that adjust revenue are prohibited...

The SEC used the word “tailored” to describe revenue adjustments that are specifically prohibited in its May update on regulatory guidelines.

“Whenever the SEC uses that specific term it’s a clear indication that this specific adjustment should not be used, it’s very strong language,” said Olga Usvyatsky, vice president of research and CPA at Audit Analytics...

The SEC in this case is uncharacteristically specific about wanting to see Tesla’s revised disclosures in advance, Ms. Usvyatsky said. “The language is strong, it’s not ‘please, in future filings,’” Ms. Usvyatsky said...

http://www.wsj.com/articles/sec-criticizes-telsa-over-tailored-accounting-1480373158?mod=yahoo_hs

On the other hand, this story could be meaningless very soon, as TSLA may benefit from the general amnesty for corporate financial fraud which seems likely to begin in January:

...The SEC stepped up its policing of non-GAAP accounting this year. The issue was raised in 28% of SEC company correspondence through Sept. 30, up from 14% for the same period in 2015, according to preliminary data from Audit Analytics.

...it is unclear whether such prescriptive oversight will prevail under the administration of President-elect Donald Trump. Mr. Trump appointed former Republican SEC Commissioner Paul Atkins, a staunch critic of heavy regulation, to lead his financial regulation transition team.

 

[GRA]

Sounds like Dean Wormer at the SEC has put those zany frat boys at TSLA on double secret probation...

SEC Criticizes Tesla Over ‘Tailored’ Accounting
Electric car maker has dropped non-GAAP metrics flagged by the regulator

Tesla Motors Inc. has come under fire from the Securities and Exchange Commission for using prohibited accounting metrics and sharing that information with investors, according to regulatory correspondence.

The SEC said Tesla in its August earnings release used “individually tailored” measurements when the electric-vehicle maker added back certain costs to revenue calculated under generally accepted accounting principles. While the SEC allows the use of some non-GAAP metrics, certain figures that adjust revenue are prohibited...

The SEC used the word “tailored” to describe revenue adjustments that are specifically prohibited in its May update on regulatory guidelines.

“Whenever the SEC uses that specific term it’s a clear indication that this specific adjustment should not be used, it’s very strong language,” said Olga Usvyatsky, vice president of research and CPA at Audit Analytics...

The SEC in this case is uncharacteristically specific about wanting to see Tesla’s revised disclosures in advance, Ms. Usvyatsky said. “The language is strong, it’s not ‘please, in future filings,’” Ms. Usvyatsky said...

http://www.wsj.com/articles/sec-criticizes-telsa-over-tailored-accounting-1480373158?mod=yahoo_hs

As the article also says that "The SEC has judged the matter resolved without further action, according to an Oct. 12th letter the regulator sent to the company", it appears Dean Wormer didn't think probation, double secret or otherwise, was needed.

"The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me."

 

[Durandal]

I took advantage of the dip yesterday to purchase some more TSLA stock.

 

[edatoakrun]

As the article also says that "The SEC has judged the matter resolved without further action, according to an Oct. 12th letter the regulator sent to the company", it appears Dean Wormer didn't think probation, double secret or otherwise, was needed..,

I suspect (as the reports imply) that it is not common for the SEC to have to make this number of repeated actions to finally get compliance:

SEC takes Tesla to task over accounting practices


Tesla Motors Inc. got the memos, but the Securities and Exchange Commission told the company more than once that it was not getting the message.

Tesla has been talking with the SEC about its accounting since Aug. 31, when it filed a joint proxy statement and prospectus announcing the company’s proposed acquisition of Solar City Corp. It took four letters from the SEC, three letters from Tesla’s lawyers for the deal, Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz, five amendments to the original August registration filing and at least one conference call, on Sept. 27, before the SEC approved the registration statement for the acquisition and closed the matter on Oct. 12...

...the SEC told Tesla, in its first letter on Sept. 16, to “please clearly state that you have not generated positive operating cash flows in the past two fiscal years and when you anticipate that you will generate positive operating cash flows, if at all.”...

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/sec-takes-tesla-to-task-over-nonstandard-and-individually-tailored-numbers-2016-11-29

 

[lorenfb]

Publicly reported WW shipment data for 2016:
Q1 - 15K, Q2 - 14K, Q3 - 25K, Total thru 9/2016 - 54K
InsideEVs YTD U.S. only thru 10/2016 for Model SVisit the Model S Forum/X - 36K (only about 1.7K for 10/2016)

Then scaling the U.S. (36K / .63 ) to get an estimate of WW thru 10/2016 results in about 57K.
This then results in potentially (on the high side) of about a total of 3K WW for 10/2016, or about 1.3K for ROW.

Again, using a 2016 guidance of 80K requires about 23K deliveries in the next two months, i.e. exceeding any previous
monthly delivery rate on average.

Using my above up-thread post, it appears that Tesla will fall far short of their 2016 guidance of 80K unless they
are able to deliver about 19K units in the next few weeks based on the latest 11/16 U.S. data from InsideEVs
(Model S/X - 2300). Scaling that number to a WW number (2300 / .63) and then adding that (3650) to the
previous 10/16 YTD number of about 57,000 results in about 61,000. The highest U.S. delivery (7500) occurred
in 9/16 for a WW number of about 12K (7500 / .63). To achieve a 50% increase over the highest delivery rate
YTD in a short month (December), i.e. vacation days, will be a major challenge even for Mr. Musk.

Furthermore, it appears that the U.S. demand for Model S/X has fallen significantly since mid year 2016.
Maybe production of the Model 3 needs to begin in Q1 of 2017 or another visit to the capital markets.

 

[GRA]

Via IEVS:

Tesla Increases Borrowing Capacity By $500 Million With Two New Credit Agreements

http://insideevs.com/tesla-increases-borrowing-capacity-500-million-two-new-credit-agreements/

A couple of months ago, Tesla CEO Elon Musk went on record (Twitter, of course – see below) stating that the raising additional funds wouldn’t be necessary for Tesla through the end of 2016 (an answer to a question to one was specifically asking). Well, that may still be true, but regardless Tesla Motors still just took the necessary steps to raise its borrowing capacity by some $500 million.


Per Bloomberg’s report:

• “Tesla, which last month acquired money-losing solar-roof installer SolarCity Corp. for $2 billion, boosted a credit line with Deutsche Bank AG by $200 million, according to a regulatory filing Tuesday. The company has the potential to add another $50 million to that agreement, and also increased a separate credit facility by another $300 million.”
  
  “With Tuesday’s disclosure, Tesla’s credit lines would reach about $1.8 billion.”

Nobody is surprised by this move to secure additional credit as it is in anticipation of larger future capital needs surrounding the Model 3 and Gigafactory, it’s just that Musk said it wasn’t necessary, so now he’s kinda on the hot seat. . . .

 

[lorenfb]

Via IEVS:

Tesla Increases Borrowing Capacity By $500 Million With Two New Credit Agreements

http://insideevs.com/tesla-increases-borrowing-capacity-500-million-two-new-credit-agreements/

A couple of months ago, Tesla CEO Elon Musk went on record (Twitter, of course – see below) stating that the raising additional funds wouldn’t be necessary for Tesla through the end of 2016 (an answer to a question to one was specifically asking). Well, that may still be true, but regardless Tesla Motors still just took the necessary steps to raise its borrowing capacity by some $500 million.


Per Bloomberg’s report:

• “Tesla, which last month acquired money-losing solar-roof installer SolarCity Corp. for $2 billion, boosted a credit line with Deutsche Bank AG by $200 million, according to a regulatory filing Tuesday. The company has the potential to add another $50 million to that agreement, and also increased a separate credit facility by another $300 million.”
  
  “With Tuesday’s disclosure, Tesla’s credit lines would reach about $1.8 billion.”

Nobody is surprised by this move to secure additional credit as it is in anticipation of larger future capital needs surrounding the Model 3 and Gigafactory, it’s just that Musk said it wasn’t necessary, so now he’s kinda on the hot seat. . . .

The time to do it is now, if the guidance will not be achieved with less than 10 days of 2016 left, i.e. for a good rate.
But if the guidance were to be exceeded, why not just wait for Q1 of 2017 for possibly a better rate, i.e. a better
corporate image?

 

[Rebel44]

Via IEVS:

Tesla Increases Borrowing Capacity By $500 Million With Two New Credit Agreements

http://insideevs.com/tesla-increases-borrowing-capacity-500-million-two-new-credit-agreements/

A couple of months ago, Tesla CEO Elon Musk went on record (Twitter, of course – see below) stating that the raising additional funds wouldn’t be necessary for Tesla through the end of 2016 (an answer to a question to one was specifically asking). Well, that may still be true, but regardless Tesla Motors still just took the necessary steps to raise its borrowing capacity by some $500 million.


Per Bloomberg’s report:

• “Tesla, which last month acquired money-losing solar-roof installer SolarCity Corp. for $2 billion, boosted a credit line with Deutsche Bank AG by $200 million, according to a regulatory filing Tuesday. The company has the potential to add another $50 million to that agreement, and also increased a separate credit facility by another $300 million.”
  
  “With Tuesday’s disclosure, Tesla’s credit lines would reach about $1.8 billion.”

Nobody is surprised by this move to secure additional credit as it is in anticipation of larger future capital needs surrounding the Model 3 and Gigafactory, it’s just that Musk said it wasn’t necessary, so now he’s kinda on the hot seat. . . .

The time to do it is now, if the guidance will not be achieved with less than 10 days of 2016 left, i.e. for a good rate.
But if the guidance were to be exceeded, why not just wait for Q1 of 2017 for possibly a better rate, i.e. a better
corporate image?

At least one of these credit lines are to allow Tesla to lease more vehicles to customers in Europe (credit line is with Tesla EU subsidiary) - not for things like building Gigafactory or expansion of Fremont factory.

Edit: fixed typo

 

[GRA]

At least one of these credit lines are to allow Tesla to lease more vehicles to customers in Europe (credit line is with Tesla EU subsidiary) - not for things like building Gigafactory or expansion of Freemont factory.

It's Fremont (after John C.), please. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Fr%C3%A9mont

 

[Zythryn]

Looks like Tesla is getting a nice cash infusion from Solar City
https://electrek.co/2016/12/23/teslas-solarcity-equity-solar-portfolio/

 

[lorenfb]

http://seekingalpha.com/article/403...2cd3a785f885153b968ee4ea2dfadd9&uprof=44&dr=1

Summary
Model S continues to fall behind 2015 sales.
Model X sales are even smaller.
Further proof December sales need to be substantial.
Every month, we get an update from the European Alternative Fuels Observatory regarding sales of electric vehicles. In late November, I detailed how the numbers were not looking good for Tesla Motors (NASDAQ:TSLA). Well, now that the site has provided another update, we can see that Tesla has continued to fall further behind 2015's pace, especially on the Model S. Take a look at the chart below.

 

[Zythryn]

http://seekingalpha.com/article/403...2cd3a785f885153b968ee4ea2dfadd9&uprof=44&dr=1

Summary
Model S continues to fall behind 2015 sales.
Model X sales are even smaller.
Further proof December sales need to be substantial.
Every month, we get an update from the European Alternative Fuels Observatory regarding sales of electric vehicles. In late November, I detailed how the numbers were not looking good for Tesla Motors (NASDAQ:TSLA). Well, now that the site has provided another update, we can see that Tesla has continued to fall further behind 2015's pace, especially on the Model S. Take a look at the chart below.

Please note, the article is referring to sales in Europe, not overall sales.

 

[lorenfb]

http://seekingalpha.com/article/403...2cd3a785f885153b968ee4ea2dfadd9&uprof=44&dr=1

Summary
Model S continues to fall behind 2015 sales.
Model X sales are even smaller.
Further proof December sales need to be substantial.
Every month, we get an update from the European Alternative Fuels Observatory regarding sales of electric vehicles. In late November, I detailed how the numbers were not looking good for Tesla Motors (NASDAQ:TSLA). Well, now that the site has provided another update, we can see that Tesla has continued to fall further behind 2015's pace, especially on the Model S. Take a look at the chart below.

Please note, the article is referring to sales in Europe, not overall sales.

Yes, well aware of that. Remember, Europe comprises part of the 2016 guidance of 80K. So my YTD sales estimate
up-thread of 63% for U.S. of WW was too low, i.e. YTD WW sales are most likely even worse.

Using my above up-thread post, it appears that TeslaVisit the Tesla Forum will fall far short of their 2016 guidance of 80K unless they
are able to deliver about 19K units in the next few weeks based on the latest 11/16 U.S. data from InsideEVs
(Model SVisit the Model S Forum/X - 2300). Scaling that number to a WW number (2300 / .63) and then adding that (3650) to the
previous 10/16 YTD number of about 57,000 results in about 61,000. The highest U.S. delivery (7500) occurred
in 9/16 for a WW number of about 12K (7500 / .63). To achieve a 50% increase over the highest delivery rate
YTD in a short month (December), i.e. vacation days, will be a major challenge even for Mr. Musk.

Furthermore, it appears that the U.S. demand for Model SVisit the Model S Forum/X has fallen significantly since mid year 2016.
Maybe production of the Model 3 needs to begin in Q1 of 2017 or another visit to the capital markets.

 

[Zythryn]

http://seekingalpha.com/article/403...2cd3a785f885153b968ee4ea2dfadd9&uprof=44&dr=1

Please note, the article is referring to sales in Europe, not overall sales.

Yes, well aware of that. Remember, Europe comprises part of the 2016 guidance of 80K. So my YTD sales estimate
up-thread of 63% for U.S. of WW was too low, i.e. YTD WW sales are most likely even worse.
...

I figured you were aware of it.
Your omission of "Europe" was misleading to anyone else. I just wanted to clarify.
As for the year end WW sales, they may miss their most recent guidance, but I don't believe it will be by much (<5%).