Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

[nerys]

Even a 33% degraded pack is an incredibly power dense pack.

And if one cell caused that dip it might not be anywhere near 33% with that cell removed or replaced.

Do we have any idea how evenly or not these packs degrade?

 

[TomT]

I think this was one of those ideas that sounded great and gave good soundbites but which has never really come to fruition. And I agree, the first few years of batteries at least, what with their attendant degradation defect, would not be good candidates this.

Is that really happening? Does Nissan have a viable outlet for 33% degraded packs?

 

[TomT]

Data from Leaf Spy shows that the batteries degrade very evenly. Thus, replacing one or two cells is not an option to restore capacity.

And if one cell caused that dip it might not be anywhere near 33% with that cell removed or replaced.

 

[nerys]

That is good then even a 33% degraded battery is still a 14 or 15 kwh battery pack. That is not chump change for sure.

 

[davewill]

...And I agree, the first few years of batteries at least, what with their attendant degradation defect, would not be good candidates this.

I don't really see why not. High temps seem to be the only real weakness. Put them in an air conditioned space or deploy them in a cool/cold climate, and they should perform fine. If I wanted battery backup for an office building in, say, northern Japan, I don't see why they wouldn't be a good choice. The problem right now is more likely to be that there are not enough of them in Nissan's hands for big deployments.

 

[DaveInAvl]

The problem right now is more likely to be that there are not enough of them in Nissan's hands for big deployments.

What about one-at-a-time deployments where, say, a LEAF owner with a degraded battery has the option to buy the car a new battery and have the old one put to use right in their home? If most of the cost of those backup/storage systems is the battery, then a package of housing-plus-electronics-plus-installation would provide an immediate path for reuse of the old battery and give the owner something they'd likely already be interested in having. Dunno how the economics would work, but I'll bet some folks here could fill the backs of a few envelopes with rough guesses

 

[fotajoye]

As many know, Nissan has announced their association with Green Charge Networks and is serious about deploying used Nissan traction batteries as 'load leveling devices' for electricity usage buffering, much along the idea of Tesla's Power Wall and Power Pack.

http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/nissan-green-charge-networks-turn-second-life-ev-batteries-into-grid-storag" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How does this affect you as a Leaf owner?. I'm not sure; but, in my case I intended to use my spent Leaf cells in my converted electric garden tractor. Now that the idea of Nissan using used lithium cells for commercial use appears viable and is not just media PR, I must replan. The Nissan batteries may be worthy more than Nissan is willing to give you toward a replacement battery and it also explains why they require you return the used battery to them.

I can also see where there will be a shortage of batteries available from junked Leafs. Perhaps the price of pre-owned Leafs in the market place is too low.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

So does anyone know if the 30kW pack will work in a 2011 SL?

i can pretty much guarantee you will not know that answer (at least not from Nissan) for more than a year but...

http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2015/06/will-nissans-new-30-kwh-battery-be.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[TomT]

And I pretty much guarantee the answer will be "no." Or, at the very least, you will not be able to access more than 24 Kwh (like in the Tesla 40)...

So does anyone know if the 30kW pack will work in a 2011 SL?

i can pretty much guarantee you will not know that answer (at least not from Nissan) for more than a year...

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

And I pretty much guarantee the answer will be "no." Or, at the very least, you will not be able to access more than 24 Kwh (like in the Tesla 40)...

So does anyone know if the 30kW pack will work in a 2011 SL?

i can pretty much guarantee you will not know that answer (at least not from Nissan) for more than a year...

that is a possibility and would save Nissan the hassle of reprogramming everything to recognize and address the extra capacity but I see that as a mistake simply because there will be too many willing to pay for the additional capacity outside the warranty period

 

[TomT]

And has been said many times, Nissan is in the business of selling cars, not upgrades...

that is a possibility and would save Nissan the hassle of reprogramming everything to recognize and address the extra capacity but I see that as a mistake simply because there will be too many willing to pay for the additional capacity outside the warranty period

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

And has been said many times, Nissan is in the business of selling cars, not upgrades...

that is a possibility and would save Nissan the hassle of reprogramming everything to recognize and address the extra capacity but I see that as a mistake simply because there will be too many willing to pay for the additional capacity outside the warranty period

just like Tesla right?

 

[TomT]

A very bad analogy! Tesla and Nissan could not be much more different in their corporate strategy and business models. I so wish Nissan WAS much more like Tesla!

just like Tesla right?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

A very bad analogy! Tesla and Nissan could not be much more different in their corporate strategy and business models. I so wish Nissan WAS much more like Tesla!

just like Tesla right?

I think that companies who continue to operate on the "that is how its always been done" platform will fail. Nissan has not gone as far off the beaten path as Tesla has but its obvious they are moving in a new direction. The traditional avenues used for revenue and "dealership coddling" will not work with EVs so a different path is obvious.


How far they take it is up to them but after nearly 5 years, they are just now getting followers. This can only be a good thing.

 

[TomT]

Unfortunately, the way they treated many of the early adopters has also cost them a number of initial followers...

How far they take it is up to them but after nearly 5 years, they are just now getting followers. This can only be a good thing.

 

[OrientExpress]

Unfortunately, the way they treated many of the early adopters has also cost them a number of initial followers...

Being an early adopter and $1 will get you a cup of coffee.

But seriously, the way that some early adopters behaved in the early days of the LEAF, poisoned the well so badly that today anyone that takes the moniker of "Early Adopter" is persona non-grata with every EV maker.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Unfortunately, the way they treated many of the early adopters has also cost them a number of initial followers...

How far they take it is up to them but after nearly 5 years, they are just now getting followers. This can only be a good thing.

ya, not too late to buy them back. I still have to say I do not understand the Tesla hype. What we have is a company with a few hundred million in assets and profits to match that has been valued at several billion in the market due to the hype Musk has created on promises. Don't get me wrong; I like Tesla and the changes they will force upon the rest of the automotive World but they have put out little so far. They have a great car but for $80,000 can you really expect anything else?

Now what I see is a led public holding its breath (and pocketbooks) waiting for this "affordable" EV that will "address all our needs" while Nissan quietly goes about its business. You wish Nissan was more like Tesla but I see a company that is moving away from the status quo of the automotive business. Now, they have done it without a lot fanfare or youtube presentations Musk so loves

But the real crux of the issue is that that Tesla 3 will not solve any of my problems or address any of my needs and I am not alone.

 

[dgpcolorado]

...But the real crux of the issue is that that Tesla 3 will not solve any of my problems or address any of my needs and I am not alone.

I'll flip that around: the Model 3 will address my needs and desires in a fossil-fuel-free car, at long last. And I am not alone!

We'll see what happens in the next two to three years. You might be right in your views about Tesla — perhaps they will fail — although I'm hoping otherwise. And I wish Nissan well with their EV program as I continue to happily drive my LEAF, despite the shrinking range and lack of useful regen.

 

[Weatherman]

But seriously, the way that some early adopters behaved in the early days of the LEAF, poisoned the well so badly that today anyone that takes the moniker of "Early Adopter" is persona non-grata with every EV maker.

Not quite. GM treated its early adopters very well and produced a very high quality product with the Volt.

Nissan seemed to be the exception by producing a low-quality product and treating the early adopters with contempt.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

...But the real crux of the issue is that that Tesla 3 will not solve any of my problems or address any of my needs and I am not alone.

I'll flip that around: the Model 3 will address my needs and desires in a fossil-fuel-free car, at long last. And I am not alone!

We'll see what happens in the next two to three years. You might be right in your views about Tesla — perhaps they will fail — although I'm hoping otherwise. And I wish Nissan well with their EV program as I continue to happily drive my LEAF, despite the shrinking range and lack of useful regen.

well who knows? Tesla delays the 3 long enough, everyone will have a 200 mile $35,000 car. there is already reports their timeline is moving beyond the "ambitious" stage. Fact of the matter; I don't have the money to buy a Tesla no matter what the prediction on price will be. I still say it will be more than $40,000 and I will make do with my $30,000 EV which I am thinking will be cheaper than that...