Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

[desiv]

But seriously, the way that some early adopters behaved in the early days of the LEAF, poisoned the well so badly that today anyone that takes the moniker of "Early Adopter" is persona non-grata with every EV maker.

Not quite. GM treated its early adopters very well and produced a very high quality product with the Volt.

(cough)EV1(cough) ;-)
I think the implication here is for pure EVs. You add an extender in anyway, and you're not on the same playing field for this.
Also, the original Volt was priced quite a bit higher than the original Leaf.

I won't say that the early adopters for lower cost pure electrics behaved badly, but it did seem that some of them felt like they were buying an EV just as tho it were any other car.
To be fair to them, the marketing was trying to say that also. But the fact is, it was still early adoption phase.
At least their cars are still more useful (to someone) than those HD-DVD players.. ;-)
(Although with streaming, I'm not sure BluRay won either, but that's another discussion)

desiv

 

[fotajoye]

By the time Tesla launches the model 3, there should be other EVs available with the 200 mile range spec, hopefully priced below $25,000 (no incentives). Who knows, Nissan may even have an upgrade longer-range battery for its early models which would greatly help to stabilize depreciation and give drivers more confidence in buying their new gen EV. Who knows, they might even be Tesla batteries.

The secret all along to EV acceptance has been and will continue to be light-weight, high density, low-cost traction batteries.

In regards to Tesla: It appears they are reinventing themselves to be an energy company...a battery energy company that also produces automobiles, rather than an automobile company that makes batteries. And, it is great to watch Wall Street, who drives companies to take a short term approach to profits, try to figure out a company that can survive taking the long term approach to making money and who confuse their attempts to manipulate the stock.

 

[TimLee]

But seriously, the way that some early adopters behaved in the early days of the LEAF, poisoned the well so badly that today anyone that takes the moniker of "Early Adopter" is persona non-grata with every EV maker.

... I won't say that the early adopters for lower cost pure electrics behaved badly, but it did seem that some of them felt like they were buying an EV just as tho it were any other car.
To be fair to them, the marketing was trying to say that also. But the fact is, it was still early adoption phase.
At least their cars are still more useful (to someone) than those HD-DVD players.. ;-)
...

desiv

The early adopter irritation and bad behaviour was mostly raising the visibility that Nissan was giving out eggregious marketing lies.
I agree that my five year old LEAF that cost me $24,000 and will be valued worth about $2,000 when it is five years old will still be more useful than my three decade old $1,000 LaserDisc player.
But I do not consider my declaring the LEAF to be a defective product that Nissan has failed to stand behind to be bad behaviour.

If EV manufacturers decide to sell their products with marketing lies and then not stand behind the product, then they deserve the truth they get from the early adopters.

 

[desiv]

...marketing lies...

Isn't that redundant? ;-)

desiv

 

[GRA]

...But the real crux of the issue is that that Tesla 3 will not solve any of my problems or address any of my needs and I am not alone.

I'll flip that around: the Model 3 will address my needs and desires in a fossil-fuel-free car, at long last. And I am not alone!

We'll see what happens in the next two to three years. You might be right in your views about Tesla — perhaps they will fail — although I'm hoping otherwise. And I wish Nissan well with their EV program as I continue to happily drive my LEAF, despite the shrinking range and lack of useful regen.

Ultimately, whether Tesla survives as a car company is less important than that they are accomplishing Musk's main goal, pushing the rest of the industry towards electrified transportation. Tesla has shown what can be done, so the other automakers don't have that excuse and are forced to compete with them. As long as Tesla survives to the point that we get several 'affordable' 200 mile EPA BEVs plus lots of competing PHEVs and/or FCEVs, in my book they've succeeded, regardless of whether or not the company continues beyond that point, fails, or gets bought/absorbed by some other company. At that point, I think the trend to EVs will be irreversible, because they'll have 'crossed the chasm'.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I don't think Tesla will fail at all. There is more than enough demand at $40,000+ to keep them in business. At the same time; I don't see them being directly competitive with Nissan either. they are simply too far apart price wise. Tesla has done well in the high priced market and should stay there. Mercedes and BMW should be the ones worrying

 

[GRA]

I don't think Tesla will fail at all. There is more than enough demand at $40,000+ to keep them in business. At the same time; I don't see them being directly competitive with Nissan either. they are simply too far apart price wise. Tesla has done well in the high priced market and should stay there. Mercedes and BMW should be the ones worrying

Both BMW and Mercedes, but especially BMW, are going whole hog into EVs, primarily PHEVs but also at least one BEV. And that's due to Tesla, as are Audi's moves in the same direction.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I don't think Tesla will fail at all. There is more than enough demand at $40,000+ to keep them in business. At the same time; I don't see them being directly competitive with Nissan either. they are simply too far apart price wise. Tesla has done well in the high priced market and should stay there. Mercedes and BMW should be the ones worrying

Both BMW and Mercedes, but especially BMW, are going whole hog into EVs, primarily PHEVs but also at least one BEV. And that's due to Tesla, as are Audi's moves in the same direction.

that is true but there is also Lexus Cadillac and many other high end manufacturers but nothing including what BMW is offering is anywhere near as compelling as Tesla

 

[TimLee]

...marketing lies...

Isn't that redundant? ;-)

desiv

Unfortunately has become true for some

Even when marketing didn't include as many lies, it often did include accenuating the positive and the omission of the negative.
Yes your children will enjoy the Happy Meal and the McD play area. But don't think too much about whether that is a good thing to do twice a week :shock:

LEAF advertising did some of that.
Highlight the advantage of not buying gas or diesel.
Don't say anything about Total Cost of Ownership.

But to lie about capacity degradation and be completely misleading about range of the LEAF should not have met the standards for marketing. :?

A lot of people were misled.
Even a very smart Google employee early on found out the LEAF range was inadequate at high speeds in the HOV lane.

70% capacity at ten years?
Even at the 7,500 miles per year that Nissan says they meant, less than 5% of the 2011 LEAFs in the US will achieve that.
It could be less than 2%.

The statement was inaccurate.
Whether it was a lie or inadequate information depends on their test data.
Which they will not provide.

 

[jlatl]

...marketing lies...

... standards for marketing. ......:?

There are standards??

 

[GRA]

<snip> Both BMW and Mercedes, but especially BMW, are going whole hog into EVs, primarily PHEVs but also at least one BEV. And that's due to Tesla, as are Audi's moves in the same direction.

that is true but there is also Lexus Cadillac and many other high end manufacturers but nothing including what BMW is offering is anywhere near as compelling as Tesla

Not as compelling to you, I think you mean. Since they haven't introduced any of these cars yet, and will be rolling them out from now until 2022 at least, we'll have to see how compelling they are to consumers when they appear. Model S is a poor autobahn cruiser now, as it's unable to maintain the power levels required plus the range is very restricted at those speeds. That plus a certain amount of xenophobia seems to be limiting sales in Germany, along with lack of home charging. Whether they can change that remains to be seen. Other areas have other factors, but I don't expect BMW or Mercedes to produce non-competitive, non-compelling cars.

 

[JasonA]

Model S is a poor autobahn cruiser now, as it's unable to maintain the power levels required plus the range is very restricted at those speeds.

I don't get it what it is about your ANTI this and ANTI that and almost everything else Tesla.

Why don't you post this crap on the TMC forums instead of spewing it here? Are you some type of Nissan troll?

Have you seen these latest vids of a P85d going around the Autobahn and coming up to a AMG SL63?? Fun starts at 7min..
https://youtu.be/aEkAW5ld_3o

Or this one he takes it on the Nurburgring and only more towards the end does it REALLY limit the power and comments (both on TMC) agree if he turned off or limited regen... cooling would have been fine...
https://youtu.be/Dphw4km60m4

Ohh.. he did this on 19'' tires.. not the 21's He did that race on just over a half gallon of gas.... And the Nurburgring is 12.9 miles long. So he averaged a bit over 24MPG!

 

[abasile]

Model S is a poor autobahn cruiser now, as it's unable to maintain the power levels required plus the range is very restricted at those speeds.

I don't get it what it is about your ANTI this and ANTI that and almost everything else Tesla.

Why don't you post this crap on the TMC forums instead of spewing it here? Are you some type of Nissan troll?

Actually, Model S autobahn limitations are well known on TMC, and this does seem to be a factor in Tesla's lower-than-hoped-for sales in Germany. As one who intends to purchase a Tesla S or X at some point, however, I'm not at all dissuaded by such limitations. It takes a great deal of energy to maintain very fast speeds. Even in Germany, though, with traffic congestion and more speed limits, I suspect that this is not as big of a practical issue as some might think. But we're talking high end buyers. In the future, perhaps some wealthy Germans will prefer a Model S with, say, a 200 kWh battery option.

 

[dhanson865]

Model S is a poor autobahn cruiser now, as it's unable to maintain the power levels required plus the range is very restricted at those speeds.

I don't get it what it is about your ANTI this and ANTI that and almost everything else Tesla.

Why don't you post this crap on the TMC forums instead of spewing it here? Are you some type of Nissan troll?

Actually, Model S autobahn limitations are well known on TMC, and this does seem to be a factor in Tesla's lower-than-hoped-for sales in Germany. As one who intends to purchase a Tesla S or X at some point, however, I'm not at all dissuaded by such limitations. It takes a great deal of energy to maintain very fast speeds. Even in Germany, though, with traffic congestion and more speed limits, I suspect that this is not as big of a practical issue as some might think. But we're talking high end buyers. In the future, perhaps some wealthy Germans will prefer a Model S with, say, a 200 kWh battery option.

With the 90 kWh battery and ludicrous mode smart capacitor I'm sure the autobahn performance has improved.

And that is after the Germany specific suspension change (optional) and top speed limit software update that applied to the prior 85 kWh cars.

 

[GRA]

Model S is a poor autobahn cruiser now, as it's unable to maintain the power levels required plus the range is very restricted at those speeds.

I don't get it what it is about your ANTI this and ANTI that and almost everything else Tesla.

Why don't you post this crap on the TMC forums instead of spewing it here? Are you some type of Nissan troll?

Have you seen these latest vids of a P85d going around the Autobahn and coming up to a AMG SL63?? Fun starts at 7min..
https://youtu.be/aEkAW5ld_3o

Or this one he takes it on the Nurburgring and only more towards the end does it REALLY limit the power and comments (both on TMC) agree if he turned off or limited regen... cooling would have been fine...
https://youtu.be/Dphw4km60m4

Ohh.. he did this on 19'' tires.. not the 21's He did that race on just over a half gallon of gas.... And the Nurburgring is 12.9 miles long. So he averaged a bit over 24MPG!

Gee, twice this year I'm accused here of being an anti-something or other troll. That puts me one ahead of my average. It's not trolling to point out that the cars are limited in power output (due to heating issues); the P90D upgrade is supposed to fix this, or at least decrease the severity. The range issue at speed is another matter, and will take a much larger battery to solve. Simple statement of fact. As mentioned in a discussion in the Model S thread, a P85D owner doing 125 mph on the autobahn had video showing he was using 840Wh/mile - see http://cleantechnica.com/2015/05/15/tesla-model-s-lasts-for-just-12-minutes-at-125-mph-video/ . I leave it to you to do the math on how far he could go at that speed.

I have no animus against Tesla cars, any more than I have an animus against Nissan cars (Nissan's treatment of their early adopters is another matter), but I prefer to evaluate vehicles objectively rather than be a fanboy. The fact is that for now, Teslas are much less suitable for autobahn cruising at speed for a prolonged period than big ICEs such as the Germans make. Do you disagree with this statement?

For that matter, moderately-priced cars like Golf TDIs are more suitable for autobahn cruising than Teslas at the moment. But then, they were developed in a country where that's a requirement for pretty much any car, and Teslas were developed here where it isn't, so why should that surprise anyone? Tesla's initial Supercharger pull-in design works great in the Bay Area and other places where it never snows, but as owners in less temperate climates were quick to point out, failed the 'clear it using a snow plow' test, and Tesla re-designed the SC sites (for areas where snow is an issue) to require backing in. Just part of the normal learning curve, when you move out of your local norms.

Just for giggles: https://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090711150839AA46z9a

and

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/5-fastest-speeds-on-autobahn.htm#page=0

 

[keydiver]

One thing I just don't get about all this talk about the Autobahn: isn't gas ridiculously expensive in Germany? If so, how can all these people afford to be driving 125 mph??? :? I mean, really now, at 125 mph any gasoline car has to be getting only a few mpg, you can probably watch the fuel gauge drop. There MUST be a slow lane, for people who want to drive a "normal" 70 mph, right? :roll:

 

[sparky]

One thing I just don't get about all this talk about the Autobahn: isn't gas ridiculously expensive in Germany? If so, how can all these people afford to be driving 125 mph??? :? I mean, really now, at 125 mph any gasoline car has to be getting only a few mpg, you can probably watch the fuel gauge drop. There MUST be a slow lane, for people who want to drive a "normal" 70 mph, right? :roll:

OT, I know: The last few times I was on the Autobahn (Potsdam to Jena to Frankfurt A9-A4) , I could barely make 100 mph for a few minutes in my Hertz Audi before having to slow down for at least 5 km for roadwork or an accident. Really, 130 km/hr is what I've come to expect. No better than I-5 on a weekday evening or I-15 Vegas to St. George, UT. True, when I did venture out into the left lane, it was maybe 40 secs before a Porsche or BMW-M was flashing his/her lights behind me.
But, in my experience, the road just ain't that fast for that long.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Model S is a poor autobahn cruiser now, as it's unable to maintain the power levels required plus the range is very restricted at those speeds.

I don't get it what it is about your ANTI this and ANTI that and almost everything else Tesla.

Why don't you post this crap on the TMC forums instead of spewing it here? Are you some type of Nissan troll?

Have you seen these latest vids of a P85d going around the Autobahn and coming up to a AMG SL63?? Fun starts at 7min..
https://youtu.be/aEkAW5ld_3o

Or this one he takes it on the Nurburgring and only more towards the end does it REALLY limit the power and comments (both on TMC) agree if he turned off or limited regen... cooling would have been fine...
https://youtu.be/Dphw4km60m4

Ohh.. he did this on 19'' tires.. not the 21's He did that race on just over a half gallon of gas.... And the Nurburgring is 12.9 miles long. So he averaged a bit over 24MPG!

Actually he thinks he speaks for the masses without realizing the majority left the building several years ago. Simply too many needs for anyone to get on board with anything in any significant percentages but even small slices like the current EV market is still talking large numbers. BMW's offerings address a market that is shrinking and that is the people taking baby steps up from their Priuses.

EV advances will cut that market in half in a few years. I sure wouldn't want to be the designer of car that has a 4 year market window...

 

[jlatl]

This thread seems to have gotten far away from the original topic. In an attempt to get us back to the original topic does anyone have any updates on battery replacement?

Specific questions:

1. What is the current cost of a replacement battery?
2. I know the cost has been going down. Any projections on what the cost will be in the future (when I need to replace mine)? I have a 2013 with 18K on it now.
3. Not to get off topic again, but looking for a good way to read my current battery status. Any suggestions? (preferably in a plugin reader with a bluetooth connection to a smart phone or computer)

Thanks

 

[91040]

1. $5500 + tax + labor. Must trade in present battery
2. ?
3. LeafSpy, either Android (bluetooth) or IOS version (Wifi)

This thread seems to have gotten far away from the original topic. In an attempt to get us back to the original topic does anyone have any updates on battery replacement?

Specific questions:

1. What is the current cost of a replacement battery?
2. I know the cost has been going down. Any projections on what the cost will be in the future (when I need to replace mine)? I have a 2013 with 18K on it now.
3. Not to get off topic again, but looking for a good way to read my current battery status. Any suggestions? (preferably in a plugin reader with a bluetooth connection to a smart phone or computer)

Thanks