Volkswagen Group Massive Emissions Fraud Scheme

[evnow]

The EA188 engine 0-60 time increased by 0.6 seconds while in emissions-compliant cheat mode; fuel economy dropped from 50 to 46 mpg. For the EA288 the 0-60 increase was only 0.1 second – mpg dropped from 53 to 50 mpg.

Apparently VW didn't understand the risk-returns involved.

 

[lorenfb]

The EA188 engine 0-60 time increased by 0.6 seconds while in emissions-compliant cheat mode; fuel economy dropped from 50 to 46 mpg. For the EA288 the 0-60 increase was only 0.1 second – mpg dropped from 53 to 50 mpg.

Based on that data, a simple re-flash of all vehicles and a limited consumer compensation plan might
be the most expedient and viable solution satisfying both the EPA and consumers. In any case, VW must
be required now to stop NOx pollution as quickly as possible even if performance and/or fuel economy is
compromised in the interim. To allow the problematic VW vehicles to pollute until 2016 when VW plans
a "total fix" is unacceptable. VW needs to provide all U.S. dealers with a firmware update and begin
notifying vehicle owners of a recall as quickly as possible.

 

[TomT]

I can almost guarantee that most owners will not bring their vehicles in for that recall until the very last minute when they are forced to by registration renewal denial or the like... They'll want to keep that extra mileage and performance as long as possible!

VW needs to provide all U.S. dealers with a firmware update and begin
notifying vehicle owners of a recall as quickly as possible.

 

[lorenfb]

I can almost guarantee that most owners will not bring their vehicles in for that recall until the very last minute when they are forced to by registration renewal denial or the like... They'll want to keep that extra mileage and performance as long as possible!

VW needs to provide all U.S. dealers with a firmware update and begin
notifying vehicle owners of a recall as quickly as possible.

Then the states need to become evolved, e.g. DMV in CA requiring an early registration with a failure penalty
to comply with the recall, and require that VW notify states' DMVs of the recall firmware update completion.

Whatever the process is, strict guidelines must be implemented from the EPA and states to begin as quickly
as possible to eliminate the ongoing NOx pollution.

 

[Stoaty]

When it rains, it pours:

"Questions Raised on VW's Reporting of U.S. Deaths, Injuries"

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/questions-raised-vws-reporting-u-s-deaths-injuries-n443061

 

[TomT]

That won't happen. There is nothing in federal or state law to support such an effort.

Then the states need to become evolved, e.g. DMV in CA requiring an early registration with a failure penalty
to comply with the recall

That already happens on DOT recalls.

require that VW notify states' DMVs of the recall firmware update completion.

 

[JeremyW]

If it's only a 0.5 second reduction in 0-60 time and a few MPG, (which would be slightly noticeable) it begs the question of why didn't VW revert the cars when they had the chance the first time around in 2014?

Maybe the low end "grunt" is lost more than the numbers lead on? Engine responsiveness? Excessive drop in "real world" city mileage? Something seems missing to me. VW's arrogance isn't that strong, is it?

There's got to be something else other than slightly beating the sticker values in performance and MPG that is going to negatively impact drivers.

 

[GRA]

If it's only a 0.5 second reduction in 0-60 time and a few MPG, (which would be slightly noticeable) it begs the question of why didn't VW revert the cars when they had the chance the first time around in 2014?

Maybe the low end "grunt" is lost more than the numbers lead on? Engine responsiveness? Excessive drop in "real world" city mileage? Something seems missing to me. VW's arrogance isn't that strong, is it?

There's got to be something else other than slightly beating the sticker values in performance and MPG that is going to negatively impact drivers.

Yeah, going just by the numbers, especially for the EA288, doesn't explain why VW would think the risk was worthwhile, so (other than arrogance/inertia) a driveability issue seems most likely.

 

[evnow]

I can almost guarantee that most owners will not bring their vehicles in for that recall until the very last minute when they are forced to by registration renewal denial or the like... They'll want to keep that extra mileage and performance as long as possible!

Not if I had a VW TDI. If NOx causes issues, my kids would be getting affected quite a bit too since the car will run near my home as well.

But you may be correct (esp in some areas, where politicians have brainwashed the masses) that most people don't even think of this in this narrow sense and do the right thing.

 

[JimSouCal]

Well, well... Seems the lawyers have set up the angle for a buy back at least in CA. As usual, the law firm will rake it in, but I'd sign up for this in a heart beat if I had a diesel that was sold under false pretenses....

Lawsuit seeks Volkswagen buyback of emissions-cheating diesels in California
http://touch.latimes.com/#section/1780/article/p2p-84686156/

"A Seattle law firm filed a class action lawsuit against Volkswagen in Los Angeles federal court Monday demanding an immediate buyback under California emissions law".
...

"The lawsuit argues that “under California express warranty law,” Volkswagen must either buy back the vehicles at the purchase price or provide replacement cars unless it can retrofit them “after a reasonable number of attempts.”

It says Volkswagen executives have already conceded that the automaker cannot make the required repairs on most of the cars for at least a year or possibly longer. That obligates VW to take the cars back, Berman said."
...

###

 

[LeftieBiker]

I think that the likelihood of an immediate buy-back will convince VW that a firmware update will be Just Fine for California, at least. And let's face it: California-spec cars have been suffering from half-assed emissions modifications by auto makers for decades. At least CA has that buy-back law; I doubt the other "CARB states" (like NY) have their own...

 

[JeremyW]

I went to a meeting tonight on CNG trucking at So Cal Gas. Some very interesting people were there from the industry and I got to talk to a gentleman who knew quite a lot about diesel emissions and asked him my question of "why would VW do this if the performance numbers didn't suffer?" Well the answer is: For SCR equipped VW's, the emissions equipment would simply not last the warranty period. He thought that a simple software change to run in compliance mode (and inject more DEF/urea) wouldn't be sufficient because the equipment that's already installed wouldn't last very long. For older cars, it was all about the $ saved not having to implement a SCR system; he was very confident that replacing the entire exhaust system including an upgrade to urea injection is the only solution that VW would be able to do to pass emissions on the older cars without SCR.

A good video on what will need to be done is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBx41WVkZnw

Note that he doesn't talk about the SCR going out early. That might just be something everyone else might find out after it comes to light in the investigation. :|

 

[TomT]

So, VW is now touting Electric as its future...

http://arstechnica.com/cars/2015/10/vw-responds-to-diesel-scandal-says-the-future-is-electric/

 

[LeftieBiker]

I remember when VW came out with that catalytic converter setup that supposedly burned itself clean periodically, and didn't need urea injection. It seemed a bit too good to be true.

 

[lorenfb]

I went to a meeting tonight on CNG trucking at So Cal Gas. Some very interesting people were there from the industry and I got to talk to a gentleman who knew quite a lot about diesel emissions and asked him my question of "why would VW do this if the performance numbers didn't suffer?" Well the answer is: For SCR equipped VW's, the emissions equipment would simply not last the warranty period. He thought that a simple software change to run in compliance mode (and inject more DEF/urea) wouldn't be sufficient because the equipment that's already installed wouldn't last very long. For older cars, it was all about the $ saved not having to implement a SCR system; he was very confident that replacing the entire exhaust system including an upgrade to urea injection is the only solution that VW would be able to do to pass emissions on the older cars without SCR.

Note that he doesn't talk about the SCR going out early. That might just be something everyone else might find out after it comes to light in the investigation. :|

So, a third variable, i.e. emissions system reliability, besides performance and fuel economy in the 'equation'
that results in no simple and short term solution, e.g. a dealer ECU firmware update for the early vehicles.

The video referenced in the post doesn't discuss the potential reliability issue which may be the most problematic one to resolve
for both the early AND late vehicles.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

That won't happen. There is nothing in federal or state law to support such an effort.

Then the states need to become evolved, e.g. DMV in CA requiring an early registration with a failure penalty
to comply with the recall

That already happens on DOT recalls.

require that VW notify states' DMVs of the recall firmware update completion.

That isn't clear to me. As I read it there's this thing called a "state implementation plan" each state submits. What's to say the EPA can't require states enforce recall compliance as part of their plans? And if they don't, along come the usual threats of withholding federal highway funds, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_Air_Act_%28United_States%29#Roles_of_the_federal_government_and_states

 

[GRA]

Via GCC:

KBA: Volkswagen to recall 8.5M vehicles with EA 189 diesel in Europe; EA 288 engines not affected

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/10/20151015-vw.html

Germany’s Federal Motor Transport Authority (Kraftfahrt-Bundesamt, KBA) has decided that Volkswagen should recall a total of approximately 8.5 million vehicles in Europe (EU28 markets), including some 2.4 million vehicles in Germany, with the EA 189 diesel engines with the software defeat device. (Earlier post.) The current successor generation of EA 288 diesel engines (in use since 2012) is not affected. . . .

 

[JeremyW]

Good PDF on Diesel emissions from TDIClub

I went to a natural gas simple cycle power plant a week ago (just combustion turbine or giant jet engine). These diesels have as much emissions equipment as they do! (Although they use ammonia for NOx control). Makes sense, but it sure seems a lot easier to have better emissions equipment on one large tailpipe than a bunch of little ones, especially if that large tailpipe doesn't need to move around. :roll:

 

[lorenfb]

Good PDF on Diesel emissions from TDIClub

I went to a natural gas simple cycle power plant a week ago (just combustion turbine or giant jet engine). These diesels have as much emissions equipment as they do! (Although they use ammonia for NOx control). Makes sense, but it sure seems a lot easier to have better emissions equipment on one large tailpipe than a bunch of little ones, especially if that large tailpipe doesn't need to move around. :roll:

The ICE and its kludgy patches to comply with emission standards will doom it sooner than most expect!

 

[GRA]

Via GCC:

Public Prosecutor: More than 2 but well below 10 suspects in VW exhaust test rigging

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/10/20151019-vw.html

OTOH, via ABG:

VW developed 4 separate defeat devices over 7 years

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/10/19/vw-developed-4-separate-defeat-devices-over-7-years/

Today brings more bad news for Volkswagen as three anonymous insiders, speaking to Reuters, are claiming that the company modified its emissions defeat device to work on at least four engines over the seven years the company has admitted to cheating. If true, the incremental updates to the software cheat could be evidence of a larger group of employees making an ongoing effort to continue their deception without regulators' knowledge. . . .

Recently, Volkswagen asserted that only a few individuals were involved in the cheat, and challenged a report that at least 30 managers knew about the situation. The report in Reuters, if true, would make VW's claims hard to believe. . . .