Wall Socket Installation- advice???

[LeftieBiker]

Dryer circuits are usually 30 amps. If you want to charge using the included charging cable, you need a 40 or 50 amp circuit. 40 is good enough, but the kind of outlet associated with a 50 amp outlet is a good match for your charging cable. So you'd want either a 40 amp circuit with a 4 prong 50 amp outlet (one prong of it won't get used to charge the car) or a "normal" 50 amp circuit and outlet.

I fully agree that a 30A circuit isn't. If you beleive the NEC all EVSE's are continuous loads so the circuit has to be dertated to 80 percent.They see worst case. It does not matter that you change less than three hours. They look at she worst case.

I'm honestly not sure what you are trying to tell me here. That I'm right? That I'm technically right but that it's ok to charge with a 30 amp circuit if it's only for 3 hours? Something else?

 

[GlennD]

Let your consonance be your guide. The NEC is the big gun in town. They say that all EVSE's are continuous loads. The definitions is at least 3 hours of charging. Many charge less. Your millage may vary as they say.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I don't think I'd want to tell someone that they were fine using a dryer outlet, as long as it was for no more than 3 hours.

 

[GerryAZ]

Coach,

Tell your electrician that you want a 50-ampere RV receptacle (NEMA 14-50R) which you plan to use to charge your electric car. I recommend No. 6 AWG copper as a minimum wire size. A GFCI 2-pole, 50-ampere circuit breaker will comply with 2017 NEC (if required by your local building codes) and should work OK with the Nissan EVSE. Some Level 2 EVSEs intended to be permanently installed will trip GFCI breakers so check eVSE manufacturer recommendations if you are purchasing a permanently installed EVSE before buying a 2-pole GFCI breaker for the circuit.

If you are concerned about remaining range when you get home tomorrow, you could plug in to a 120-volt outlet to trickle charge overnight (will not get to full charge if just charging for 8 to 10 hours).

 

[MikeD]

GerryAZ:
1) Don't you think it would help to actually identify any known EVSEs that are prone to nuisance tripping -- especially those EVSEs (if any) that are only designed as a plugin? I think it would help to know if an EVSE should only be direct wired (and w/o a GFCI breaker).
2) Don't you think the 2017 NEC will force major EVSE manufacturers to stop selling EVSEs that have a nuisance tripping problem?
3) Finally, just as major EVSE manufacturers have avoided selling 16a Level 1 plugin EVSEs because inadequate circuit risks involved, don't you think they will avoid selling 40a Level 2 plugin EVSEs?

 

[Baltneu]

OP
I am no electrician but I used a NEMA 14-50 receptacle, 50 amp breaker and #6 wire for my 2018 SL.
Best of luck.

Baltneu- Met with electrician today... 14-50 receptacle, 50 amp breaker, and #8 gauge wire. Quick question for you, does your setup give you 240 (or should I say enough) volts???

With regard to the circuit breaker, my electrician said it would be in the box, and I have nothing to worry about.

thanks

Yes, I have a 240 volt line. The 50 amp breaker is a duo-pole(sp) breakers, so that means the electrician runs 2 120volt lines from each of the breakers, and wala, 240 volts!

 

[Baltneu]

Update... electrician said he can't get to the install until Friday.. we agreed on tomorrow afternoon originally. I am going pick up my '19 tomorrow.. about 70 miles away. Assuming it will be fully charged upon departure, will I have enough battery left to go the 20 or so miles for errands and work Friday as he puts in the install?

I have a backup car if not... what do you all think? I plan on driving the vehicle very conservatively on the way home. I will be mostly interstate driving however.

yes!

 

[Baltneu]

OP
Although a 40 amp breaker would be OK for our Leaf's, I thought about the future. I lease the car (3 years), and who knows what I will do in 3 years. Of course stay with an EV, never go back to ICE, but I did not want to install a 40 amp breaker and then have to rip it out for future acquisitions. I think the consensus here is to have your electrician use #6 wire, not #8 copper wire. Probably the #8 will work, but again think about down the road. Best of luck.

 

[MikeD]

Baltneu: What are your thoughts about replacing your 50a breaker with a GFCI one, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Baltneu]

MikeD, I never thought about using a GFCI because my plug is indoors, in the garage. When I think of GFCI use, I think of electrical power near water, so no need in my garage. However, you are doing it outside as you said in your original post. I would ask your electrician about it and perhaps Google the issue and see what comes up, I am sure someone has done it before. The only thing that I will point out is that the 2018 Leaf Owners Manual calls for a 50 amp breaker (page CH-5). I re-read that section, I will admit quickly, and saw no mention of GFCI.

Edit:

Here is a conversation I found from the ClipperCreek site:

Jon Gelsey on September 11, 2017 at 8:56 pm
Hi,
I’ll be installing my HCS-50 inside my garage, but charging my car outside (the J1772 charging plug will be holstered on the outside of the garage wall. Does the 50A circuit breaker need to be GFCI or can it be an ordinary 50A breaker? Thanks!
Reply
Rachel North
Rachel North on September 12, 2017 at 8:38 am
Hi Jon,
Our stations do not require a GFCI breaker as there is protection built into the station. You would only need to have a GFCI breaker installed if it was required by your local codes.
If you have any other questions please let us know.

MikeD....notice in the last paragraph "local codes"

 

[coach81]

Thanks for all the comments and help. Just to be clear- what gauge wire would be BEST for my 240v 15-40r outlet? I want the best situation for my 2019 Leaf. Please advise.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Thanks for all the comments and help. Just to be clear- what gauge wire would be BEST for my 240v 15-40r outlet? I want the best situation for my 2019 Leaf. Please advise.

#6 gauge wire. NEMA 14-50R outlet.

 

[coach81]

Thanks so much Leftie!!!

 

[rogersleaf]

Does anyone know a real technical reason why Nissan calls for a 50 amp wall outlet to feed a car that pulls a max 27.5 amps? Is the 240v. EVSE cord supplied with the car designed to deliver wattage higher than the current LEAF can accept? Just seems overkill for most situations.

 

[LeftieBiker]

A 40 amp is the minimum needed, but 50 amp circuits are more common.

 

[coach81]

Socket installed.. charging as I type this... life is great!!!

 

[coach81]

Current charge rate appears to be 25 miles per hour... that good/normal?

As in.. every 60 mins is about 25 miles recharged.

 

[Levenkay]

Current charge rate appears to be 25 miles per hour... that good/normal?

It's pretty reasonable. 4miles/kWh is my "rule of thumb" for the LEAF's driving energy economy, so it takes 6.25kWh to go 25 miles. Doing that continuously would mean 6.25kW. Remember that the 4mi/kWh figure is talking about energy from the battery, while the "6.6kW" rating of the LEAF's on-board charger describes power taken from the mains, and there are inevitably losses along the way.

 

[GerryAZ]

GerryAZ:
1) Don't you think it would help to actually identify any known EVSEs that are prone to nuisance tripping -- especially those EVSEs (if any) that are only designed as a plugin? I think it would help to know if an EVSE should only be direct wired (and w/o a GFCI breaker).
2) Don't you think the 2017 NEC will force major EVSE manufacturers to stop selling EVSEs that have a nuisance tripping problem?
3) Finally, just as major EVSE manufacturers have avoided selling 16a Level 1 plugin EVSEs because inadequate circuit risks involved, don't you think they will avoid selling 40a Level 2 plugin EVSEs?

Mike,

I did not identify brand names because I have not tested every brand out there. I will say that my AeroVironment/Nissan 208/240-volt, 30-ampere unit purchased directly from AeroVironment in early 2011 will instantly trip a GFCI breaker because it passes a small current to ground (which is greater than the 5 mA threshold for GFCI breaker tripping) to verify the integrity of the safety ground connection of the branch circuit (even without connecting to a car). The installation manual is very clear that it is not to be used with a GFCI circuit breaker. I have read similar language in the installation instructions of other EVSEs, but have not actually tried them with GFCI breakers. I did test my Clipper Creek HCS-50P 208/240-volt, 40-ampere EVSE with NEMA 14-50 plug that I purchased for my workshop/garage and confirmed that it will not immediately trip a GFCI breaker so it should work on a GFCI-protected 50-ampere branch circuit. I plug it in to the 50-ampere RV receptacle (supplied from a 50-ampere non-GFCI breaker) with a 15-foot RV extension cord because the 12-inch supply cord (another Code requirement) makes it impossible to plug in without letting it hang by the cord.

I suspect the language added to the 2017 NEC is intended to impede the use of plug-in EVSEs because they don't require GFCI protection for other 240-volt appliances that use receptacles as disconnecting means (such as electric ranges and dryers). Although I could be wrong, I don't see requirements in the 2017 NEC for GFCI protection for 50-ampere RV receptacles (which are typically outside or in garages). I have encountered both electric ranges and water heaters that had internal wiring failures which caused leakage currents to ground that created possible shock hazards. Those shock hazards would have been eliminated if the supply circuits were protected by GFCI circuit breakers. Clearly, the GFCI requirement in the 2017 NEC will force EVSE manufacturers to either make their units compatible or remove them from the USA market.

Back to the original post:

Coach,
Enjoy your new car!

 

[rogersleaf]

Current charge rate appears to be 25 miles per hour... that good/normal?

As in.. every 60 mins is about 25 miles recharged.

Coach81,
Wondering if I can get you to look on the brick part of the charge cord for a wattage or amp rating, or model number? Might find it on a label such as UL Labs rating sticker.

Would like to know what Nissan is providing and if it can be adjusted for a lower amperage 240v. supply such as common for a clothes dryer.