evnow
Well-known member
+1.MrZorg said:I made myself that same promise and am now about to honor it.johnr said:
What IF there was another option?
- Thread starter Long4Leaf
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Coffee_Slurry
Well-known member
For all the press that EVs are getting this year, there is really just the LEAF, the Volt, and the Roadster. That's Today. Yeah, there are some bit players, but really, them's it.
I'm buying the LEAF because it's first, it seems well made, and it's inexpensive after all the promos and kickbacks. It's my starter EV.
I look at is as being really excited about my second EV in three years, and the LEAF is something to drive in the meantime.
The Esflow:
http://www.iol.co.za/motoring/cars/nissan/nissan-ev-sports-car-flows-into-view-1.1024054
The Model S, and by 2014, probably others.
But Nissan will put an EV in my driveway in April.
I'm buying the LEAF because it's first, it seems well made, and it's inexpensive after all the promos and kickbacks. It's my starter EV.
I look at is as being really excited about my second EV in three years, and the LEAF is something to drive in the meantime.
The Esflow:
http://www.iol.co.za/motoring/cars/nissan/nissan-ev-sports-car-flows-into-view-1.1024054
The Model S, and by 2014, probably others.
But Nissan will put an EV in my driveway in April.
Herm
Well-known member
I would still choose Nissan, mostly because they are the company with the longest experience working on lithium cells and electric cars.. they have been at it since 1990 and probably know what they are doing.. Nissan and BYD are the only companies that build their own batteries.
I would not specifically choose not to get a Nissan. The process has had its bumps, but so far the CARS are loved by everyone who has gotten one. And that to me is more important than the process. I got my Miata from an online car broker 10 years ago, and it was a huge pain in the ass. But after it was said and done I loved the car, and am only now getting rid of it because electric is an option I can afford.Long4Leaf said:
As a company, I am extremely pleased with their attitude and commitment to electric cars. That alone would make me lean towards the Leaf if there were other options.
evnow said:
+2. Even though it made absolutely no sense for me to buy a new car right now, what with my employment outlook being less than rosy for the immediate future. :shock:
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
OP; where are you? its hard to respond to your question without knowing whether or not u will be receiving your vehicle in the next 3 months because if you are in the launch area you will, if not you wont.
i understand how waiting even a day is torture. i was there, now i have little to complain about since i was essentially first, so my diligence (and the luck of having Tuesday off) on both days allowed me to get in quick and be one of the first to get delivery. and there is no doubt, there are better options, there always is.
but i am driving my Leaf now. i have 1000 miles on it in 3 weeks and for $30 of electricity. i am saving more than $10 a week in fuel costs and that is if gas stays at $3.14 a gallon which is what it was the last time i bought gas. i am getting gas in the Prius in a few hours. (Leaf went to Centralia this morning) and i will report back what it cost to drive the 450 some odd miles it has on it.... it wont be as bad as most, but it will still be bad.
another thing to point out; the $10 a week savings in fuel is assuming gas $3.14 a gallon at 45-48 mpg. if you cant make those numbers then the potential savings go up from there. if you have solar, the savings continue to rise.
"soon" (said with derision) there will be multitudes of EV options out there and that is expected to be less than 15 months down the road...
15 months = 64 weeks= $640 saved. not much money saved at all... only would save about 18,000 lbs of carbon....
i understand how waiting even a day is torture. i was there, now i have little to complain about since i was essentially first, so my diligence (and the luck of having Tuesday off) on both days allowed me to get in quick and be one of the first to get delivery. and there is no doubt, there are better options, there always is.
but i am driving my Leaf now. i have 1000 miles on it in 3 weeks and for $30 of electricity. i am saving more than $10 a week in fuel costs and that is if gas stays at $3.14 a gallon which is what it was the last time i bought gas. i am getting gas in the Prius in a few hours. (Leaf went to Centralia this morning) and i will report back what it cost to drive the 450 some odd miles it has on it.... it wont be as bad as most, but it will still be bad.
another thing to point out; the $10 a week savings in fuel is assuming gas $3.14 a gallon at 45-48 mpg. if you cant make those numbers then the potential savings go up from there. if you have solar, the savings continue to rise.
"soon" (said with derision) there will be multitudes of EV options out there and that is expected to be less than 15 months down the road...
15 months = 64 weeks= $640 saved. not much money saved at all... only would save about 18,000 lbs of carbon....
DaveinOlyWA said:
Sorry for my ignorance, not sure if "OP" means me. But my details are in the spread sheet. Yes I am one of the "month of April" guys. The delay in delivery does not bother me. The list planet4ever posted is a very good summary of the low points that raised my concern.
Jimmydreams
Well-known member
Long4Leaf said:
The acronym "OP" means "Original Poster" (whoever started the thread).
We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
ok so the initial flow of vehicles is slow and its easy for ones who have not gotten theirs to be apprehensive especially since the increased delivery rate has not started and Nissan has not been very good at keeping to its word about the delivery...or has it.
in retrospect despite my bitching to the contrary, my Leaf was pretty delivered as promised and on time. i had hoped for a Nov or Dec delivery and lets face it, nothing was ever committed to that and i only had to wait a few weeks into the New Year to get mine.
so, its a waiting game now. Nissan says that all who signed up will have theirs by May and yea, its still a bit of a wait but still better than any other option and if you are not certain, lease. re-evaluate your options in 3 years when we will really have choices.
in retrospect despite my bitching to the contrary, my Leaf was pretty delivered as promised and on time. i had hoped for a Nov or Dec delivery and lets face it, nothing was ever committed to that and i only had to wait a few weeks into the New Year to get mine.
so, its a waiting game now. Nissan says that all who signed up will have theirs by May and yea, its still a bit of a wait but still better than any other option and if you are not certain, lease. re-evaluate your options in 3 years when we will really have choices.
charlie1300
Well-known member
If there in fact was another option, sure I would consider it, who wouldn't? But there isn't. The Leaf is the only currently available EV I can afford. That makes it pretty simple - Leaf or a hybrid. Unless I find a "deal breaker" problem with the functionality of the Leaf, that's what I will buy. Waiting... well, that's what happens when you buy the first Gen of anything.
Yohannon
Active member
Hey,
I registered on 4/20, didn't get a RAQ until 9/29. Literally just two days ago escaped "pendingtory" with a 4/11 ship date.
While this is the first Nissan I've ever considered buying, the last used car I owned was a Datsun B-210 that I loved and abused until it died... in 1989.
As with other posters here, when I bought my last new car in 2004 I was already starting to wonder when the first mass market EV would finally hit the streets. Zap, Aptera and others made bold promises about features, range and release date. Aptera still hasn't really made it tot he streets yet, and while Zap shipped (and I purchased one as a VERY local -- as in 1.6 mile -- commute car in a town where the speed limit is 25 and the streets are flat) the quality of the vehicles were terrible. That I could have forgiven if the range was the promised 40 miles, but I never saw more than 20 at best. Tesla was not an option for me (although a co-worker has purchased one) for (> 100K) reasons that should be fairly obvious.
I really did NOT want to buy another ICE vehicle. And hybrids... well, as someone who has watched the complexity of automobiles increase dramatically since the 70's, hybrid struck me as a step backward for relatively modest milage increases. I believe the Saturn VUE hybrid was rumored to have increased efficiency to a whopping 27MPG over the 22MPG my 2005 model before GM decided to put a bullet through the brand.
So when Nissan announced the Leaf, I was READY. Even a renter who can't get a 220V charger installed I had no issues with signing the waiver -- right now the Zap takes all night to re-charge anyway, for about 10% of the range. At least I know that the 80% charging mode will more than meet my needs. And after 3.5 years of being limited to < 20 miles at 45MPH and less, power nothing (a flashback to cars of the 60's!), and environment controls that cut into my range severely, not to mention a tight fit for me and a passenger... well, the fact that Nissan is delivering a car as complete as the Leaf makes me very happy.
Could the process be smoother? No argument. I came to this site and its forums specifically because of the long periods of relative silence from Nissan, which made me crazy as well. However, based on the early reports from the first Leaf owners, I'm starting to get more and more excited about getting the car.
Would I have looked at other options? Well, if the Tesla Model S hit the streets (and a reasonable target price) I might have considered it. If VW came out with an E-Motion vehicle I might have taken a close look at it (I have owned two VW's and loved them both). However, the trouble with the question (what if) is that it likely would have altered Nissan's approach in ways that we can't predict. As other's have said, if it doesn't matter 5 years from now... hell, a YEAR from now... why sweat it?
Now everybody take a deep breath and remember that Friday is almost here. ;-)
~Y~
I registered on 4/20, didn't get a RAQ until 9/29. Literally just two days ago escaped "pendingtory" with a 4/11 ship date.
While this is the first Nissan I've ever considered buying, the last used car I owned was a Datsun B-210 that I loved and abused until it died... in 1989.
As with other posters here, when I bought my last new car in 2004 I was already starting to wonder when the first mass market EV would finally hit the streets. Zap, Aptera and others made bold promises about features, range and release date. Aptera still hasn't really made it tot he streets yet, and while Zap shipped (and I purchased one as a VERY local -- as in 1.6 mile -- commute car in a town where the speed limit is 25 and the streets are flat) the quality of the vehicles were terrible. That I could have forgiven if the range was the promised 40 miles, but I never saw more than 20 at best. Tesla was not an option for me (although a co-worker has purchased one) for (> 100K) reasons that should be fairly obvious.
I really did NOT want to buy another ICE vehicle. And hybrids... well, as someone who has watched the complexity of automobiles increase dramatically since the 70's, hybrid struck me as a step backward for relatively modest milage increases. I believe the Saturn VUE hybrid was rumored to have increased efficiency to a whopping 27MPG over the 22MPG my 2005 model before GM decided to put a bullet through the brand.
So when Nissan announced the Leaf, I was READY. Even a renter who can't get a 220V charger installed I had no issues with signing the waiver -- right now the Zap takes all night to re-charge anyway, for about 10% of the range. At least I know that the 80% charging mode will more than meet my needs. And after 3.5 years of being limited to < 20 miles at 45MPH and less, power nothing (a flashback to cars of the 60's!), and environment controls that cut into my range severely, not to mention a tight fit for me and a passenger... well, the fact that Nissan is delivering a car as complete as the Leaf makes me very happy.
Could the process be smoother? No argument. I came to this site and its forums specifically because of the long periods of relative silence from Nissan, which made me crazy as well. However, based on the early reports from the first Leaf owners, I'm starting to get more and more excited about getting the car.
Would I have looked at other options? Well, if the Tesla Model S hit the streets (and a reasonable target price) I might have considered it. If VW came out with an E-Motion vehicle I might have taken a close look at it (I have owned two VW's and loved them both). However, the trouble with the question (what if) is that it likely would have altered Nissan's approach in ways that we can't predict. As other's have said, if it doesn't matter 5 years from now... hell, a YEAR from now... why sweat it?
Now everybody take a deep breath and remember that Friday is almost here. ;-)
~Y~
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
Nice post. I drove my Zenn 3 years and over 12,000 miles. We should swap "NEV" horror stories
Deleted member 603
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I have to shake my head at posts like the OP's because you have no idea how much better Nissan is handling the Leaf order process compared to what we Prius (Gen 2) owners had to go through with Toyota back in 2003. Toyota had no online ordering system at all. You had to go to you local dealer and sign up for a Prius with him. That dealer had absolutely no knowledge of when you would ever get your Prius, nor did he ever give me any updates. I think he estimated 6 weeks on the day I ordered. That was in Oct. 2003, and the car finally came in April 2004. That was 6 months of waiting with not a word from Toyota. At least Nissan is sending us emails every so often, and I even got an email earlier this week from Nissan with my delivery date: May 2011. Hooray! So I know 3 months ahead of time when I will get my Leaf. What an improvement over Toyota!
I heard absolutely nothing from Toyota until about 2 weeks before my Prius came. So complaining about how bad you think Nissan is handling the ordering process, just be aware: it could easily have been a lot worse!
I heard absolutely nothing from Toyota until about 2 weeks before my Prius came. So complaining about how bad you think Nissan is handling the ordering process, just be aware: it could easily have been a lot worse!
Hmmm, this gives me an idea. We know that Toyota in general (and the Prius specifically) has been wildly popular. If we follow this further this means that the Volt will fail (it sounds like they have had a much better notification system) and the Leaf will do well, just not as well as the Prius. I'm up for that!ml194152 said:
In all seriousness, you make an extremely good point. I blame the internet (really). I go to Amazon.com, I click on an item, and in 5 minutes or less I have a receipt. Within 24 hours, I have a tracking number. And then usually 2-5 days I have the item in my hot little hands. We expect this kind of immediacy from everything, and when we don't get it then we think that something is wrong.
I know the "it could have been worse" argument is not going to fly with many people here, but... well, it could have been. We could have had the Prius info like above. We could have been promised specific dates that then had to be pushed out because of the Japan tax credit thing (just speculation that has been out there, I'm not stating that as fact). It is what it is - and at this point I am not a Nissan Hater for what has transpired so far.
ml194152 said:
I know right now all the focus is on the delivery, but that's only one of the issues, and not even the biggest. And the ordering process was fantastic. The fact that there were bugs in such a new approach to sell cars is expected, but it is how they were handled that was bad. What about not being able to coordinate email distribution (after several tries), what about a clear easily understood battery waranty, what about AV, what about binding the hands and feet of CS keeping them to scripted answers, ordering options blind without even any pictures, giving a month when you can order and later saying whoops, sorry, you are in the wrong location...
So what if my battery end up at 70% capacity after 2 years? What if CarWings stops talking to my car? ... Being an early adopter, I expect problems and challenges. My concern as a customer is how Nissan is and will in the future respond to those challenges.
I really wish it was only the slow rollout. As I said, I am into this car for the long haul and committed. I just wish I had a little more confidence in the company I am taking the ride with.
BTW, I sincerely hope I am proven wrong and in 1 or 2 or 5 years from now, I am singing the praises of how great the LEAF is and the great owner experience I am having. As well as trumpeting the triumphs of the great achievements Nissan made in bringing the first true EV to the market.
Yohannon
Active member
DaveinOlyWA said:
Dave,
I suspect that we would rapidly devolve to the "That's nothing! One time..." stage. As it is both the interior and exterior door handles on the driver side literally came off in my hand (which was entertaining when the driver side door was unlocked, but un-openable, and the passenger side was openable, but locked -- had to use a wire hanger to roll down the driver side window just to get into the car), the charger has been incredibly flakey (I think a cold solder connection is loose, because pressing down on the daughter card fixes it so that the charge starts), and the windshield wiper fell off, which wouldn't have been such a big deal -- except you couldn't get replacements easily, and even the dealer wound up pulling the blade off a floor model to help me out... but I suspect we're now guilty of topic drift.
I think we can safely say that, for all the glitches, Nissan is at least TRYING. Speculating on alternate realities can be fun, but the current alternatives are either vaporware or hack jobs.
~Y~
_________________
Blue Ocean Leaf SL, QC
Res 4/20/10
Ordered 9/29/2010 4:13PM (PDT)*
Delivery - April 2011!
*Received "You can now RAQ..." e-mail at 3:08 PM the same day.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
have to agree with everyone here that sure i would consider other options, but since there arent any, i am happy and to be honest with ya, i have a lot to be happy about.
the OP is primarily upset over the lack of information, miscommunication, etc. and that is to be expected. now i also ordered my first Prius on Thanksgiving weekend, 2003 and received immediately...after 6 ½ months. although i was told it would be "4-8 months" from day one, i had no info until about 5 days before it arrived. no dashboard, no nothing.
but i dont see an option here that does not involve another one year wait. the Volt is still 2-4 months away (i think, actually i dont really care any more so stopped tracking it. i mention it because i received a brochure from Chevy today) so the Leaf is here first.
keep in mind, when i ordered my Leaf in April last year, THERE WAS NO OTHER MAJOR AUTO MANUFACTURER WITH EV PLANS.
all the ones now, Mitsubishi, Ford, etc. all announced products after the Leaf and it is obvious to me that if the Leaf had not happened, the RAV 4EV, Focus EV, etc would not have happened either.
so i am taking the Leaf because this INSURES me a choice on my next EV purchase
the OP is primarily upset over the lack of information, miscommunication, etc. and that is to be expected. now i also ordered my first Prius on Thanksgiving weekend, 2003 and received immediately...after 6 ½ months. although i was told it would be "4-8 months" from day one, i had no info until about 5 days before it arrived. no dashboard, no nothing.
but i dont see an option here that does not involve another one year wait. the Volt is still 2-4 months away (i think, actually i dont really care any more so stopped tracking it. i mention it because i received a brochure from Chevy today) so the Leaf is here first.
keep in mind, when i ordered my Leaf in April last year, THERE WAS NO OTHER MAJOR AUTO MANUFACTURER WITH EV PLANS.
all the ones now, Mitsubishi, Ford, etc. all announced products after the Leaf and it is obvious to me that if the Leaf had not happened, the RAV 4EV, Focus EV, etc would not have happened either.
so i am taking the Leaf because this INSURES me a choice on my next EV purchase
