What if you want L2 and your home's not wired for 220?

[Rake]

The official US voltage is 120/240 today, some have more and some have less but we do not call it 110 and 220 anymore.

I apologise for not being able to go into more depth earlier, I realized I was late for an appointment, and had to cut it short (when I should have waited so I could complete the thought).
I don't mean to be argumentative; I respect you and your volume of info-correct posts. Technically you are 100% correct, and 240V is the target voltage used in the US for single phase residential.
But, 110/220V is still commonly used interchangably when referring to voltage because some electrical appliances and equipment are advertised as being rated at 110/220 (to allow for the voltage drop between equipment and supply) and the "name" stuck.
Between this and the fact that supply voltage can vary as much as 10% and still remain in spec, is why some people still say 110/220.
Are they incorrect? Technically, yes.
However I don't think I'll ever correct anyone for using either nomenclature.
Essentially people are referring to the same thing, and even among electricians when asked, you commonly hear both answers as they are really referring to the proper range of voltage that should be present. Anything over 240V should be reduced by a tap at the transformer, because it is harder on equipment, and will shorten its service life.
For example: take any normal household incandescent light bulb and increase its supply voltage by 10% and you will reduce its life expectancy by 50%. Generally a bad thing.
So you will typically see a voltage that is in the range of 220-240V, any of which is fine (the voltage could drop even further (to a point*) and most equipment will still function properly).
*AC motors can be an exception to this, as they can be fussy to maintain proper rpm.

Way too much energy expended over such a little thing.
Call it either one, IMHO, I know what you're talking about.

 

[planet4ever]

Additional comments: The brochure says "currently in development"; so ... availability is also unknown. In addition, there's no indication as to the # of kWh the unit stores. Therefore, it's unknown whether it will meet the "real need" from its internal battery (when it's not plugged into 120V).

Think about it a second: How many pounds of batteries would you need to hold enough electricity to charge the 400+ pound battery pack in the LEAF?

 

[planet4ever]

Do we really have EVSE stations and not Charging stations? But if there's a DC quick charger at the location, is it then a Charging station instead of an EVSE station - or not because the DC quick charger has bulk power electronics that provides the charge to the battery, but the brains to control the charge is on the vehicle. And does the average consumer care or need to know the distinction?

False argument. Many stores have baby changing stations in the restrooms. Does that imply that there are changers built into those stations? No, a changing station is just a place to change the baby, and a charging station is just a place to charge the car.

So go ahead and talk about charging stations or charging docks. Those are perfectly legitimate terms. Just don't try to tell me that silly five-pound box on the wall is a charger.

Ray

 

[EVDRIVER]

Do we really have EVSE stations and not Charging stations? But if there's a DC quick charger at the location, is it then a Charging station instead of an EVSE station - or not because the DC quick charger has bulk power electronics that provides the charge to the battery, but the brains to control the charge is on the vehicle. And does the average consumer care or need to know the distinction?

False argument. Many stores have baby changing stations in the restrooms. Does that imply that there are changers built into those stations? No, a changing station is just a place to change the baby, and a charging station is just a place to charge the car.

So go ahead and talk about charging stations or charging docks. Those are perfectly legitimate terms. Just don't try to tell me that silly five-pound box on the wall is a charger.

Ray

Very true. The issue I have with calling an EVSE a "charger" is that it confuses people when they ask questions about charging speeds, etc and when there is discussion of actual chargers here people are confused as to what is being discussed. The next time someone asks why they are unable to charge their LEAF faster and they are told the reason is because it needs a faster charger the first thing they are going to think is the box on the wall is not good enough. I also recently remember a blogger on All Cars Electric saying an EVSE was the cause of her Prius fire and that an EVSE could do this on another car when in reality it was a charger issue, an EVSE does not control charge rates to the pack itself, she did not get this at all and spread all sorts of fear and misinformation to the public.

EVSE is an industry term, charge station, charging dock, charging cord, etc are all consumer terms. This term is fine if we want consumers to be ignorant, but not all consumers are ignorant. I would not suggest EVSE as a term to use for the general public and I only mention it when discussing tech talk but I do point out the difference if people want more detail. Sloppy marketing people are to blame for this, before the LEAF came out Nissan had a video showing regen in action and the power going from the motor to the charger to the pack. Too bad the marketing people had no idea how regen works and decided to put the charger in the animated diagram where it did not belong. This is also likely why a Nissan guy told me the charger is on the wall and there is no charger in the car at all.

When on a LEAF forum people should use better terminology particularly when discussing the charging system itself.

 

[garygid]

All this terminology (voltage, charger) has been discussed MANY, MANY times, and is OFF TOPIC here.

Also, the more experienced members should know better than to keep bringing it up, over and over, in different threads. If you feel the subject is that important, PLEASE start an "EVSE is NOT a Charger" thread, and a "110/220 is really 120/240" thread.

 

[Volusiano]

You could use this. Quick 220 http://www.quick220.com/220_catalog.htm

Not a bad idea. But since my assigned parking space doesn't have an AC outlet, Randmac's solution might be more practical.

Well, there are 2 different issues here.

The first issue is that you live in an apartment and your parking space doesn't have an AC outlet. Beside that portable battery solution, there's really no other option to charge at home than to use your Nissan supplied L1 EVSE and run an extension cord from your parking space to a nearest outlet somewhere. You would have to solve this first issue anyway to be able to charge your Leaf from your parking space.

But the first issue is not the question you posed on your thread here. Your question is actually the second issue: how to get L2 and you don't have 240V? The answer is simple. First send your L1 EVSE in for the L2 upgrade by Phil for $239, and buy a Q220. Then plug the modified EVSE to the Q220, and plug the Q220 to 2 nearest 120V outlets that are on separate circuits that don't have GFCI.

So basically to answer your question, solve your first issue (find and connect your L1 EVSE to an outlet), then expand your solution to modify the L1 EVSE to support L2 charging via the EVSEUpgrade.com solution, and buy a Q220 to plug into 2 non-GFCI 120V outlets.

With this approach, you basically have a portable L2 charging solution that you can bring anywhere with you where there are 2 non-GFCI outlets on different circuits you can plug in.

 

[tps]

Additional comments: The brochure says "currently in development"; so ... availability is also unknown. In addition, there's no indication as to the # of kWh the unit stores. Therefore, it's unknown whether it will meet the "real need" from its internal battery (when it's not plugged into 120V).

Think about it a second: How many pounds of batteries would you need to hold enough electricity to charge the 400+ pound battery pack in the LEAF?

Yep, that has been my question all along: what are the batteries in this EVSE? With 120 VAC available to during charging, it'd probably need about 12-15 kWh of usable capacity to fully charge the 24 kWh LEAF. The good thing is the LEAF would be tapering off near the end, so the last part of the charge might be accomplished on 120 VAC alone.

Anyway a 12 - 15 kWh Li-Ion pack would be rather expensive. While lead acid might be cheaper, even though you might need 20 -30 kWh total capadity since it is best not to go below 50%, such a pack would be huge and heavy.

No matter how I think about it, this EVSE raises far more questions than AV is giving answers... I say we should be prepared for "sticker shock".

 

[smkettner]

Your question is actually the second issue: how to get L2 and you don't have 240V? The answer is simple. First send your L1 EVSE in for the L2 upgrade by Phil for $239, and buy a Q220. Then plug the modified EVSE to the Q220, and plug the Q220 to 2 nearest 120V outlets that are on separate circuits that don't have GFCI.

I don't recommend this as a permanent solution in a rental apartment. Get the proper outlet approved and installed in the proper place.
Even a long 120v cord dragged across walkways etc will end up as a hazard to others.

 

[Volusiano]

Your question is actually the second issue: how to get L2 and you don't have 240V? The answer is simple. First send your L1 EVSE in for the L2 upgrade by Phil for $239, and buy a Q220. Then plug the modified EVSE to the Q220, and plug the Q220 to 2 nearest 120V outlets that are on separate circuits that don't have GFCI.

I don't recommend this as a permanent solution in a rental apartment. Get the proper outlet approved and installed in the proper place.
Even a long 120v cord dragged across walkways etc will end up as a hazard to others.

Fully agree that this should never be a permanent solution in a rental apartment situation. I just assume that the OP is asking for a temporary L2 solution per the question in the title, and per the clarification that there is no outlet installed at the parking spot at all.

I assume that if the OP could have gotten the proper outlet approved and installed in the proper place, this question would never have been asked.

 

[garygid]

I found that the two 120v duplex receptacles (two sockets each) near my washer and dryer are each wired to different sides (phases) of the 240v.

So, without any extension cord, my 12-inch "Y" adapter cord works well to provide the 240v 12 amps for the Mod-L1 charging of the LEAF, with no substantial dangers.

 

[smkettner]

Gary, I will suggest a quad box and include a NEMA 6-20R.
And it really should be fed with a double breaker for this purpose.

 

[wwhitney]

So, without any extension cord, my 12-inch "Y" adapter cord works well to provide the 240v 12 amps for the Mod-L1 charging of the LEAF, with no substantial dangers.

Gargy, is this a simple Y cord that you made your self? If so how do you avoid the following hazard: plug one of the male 120V plugs into a receptacle, plug the load into the 240V receptacle, and now you have energized the other 120V male plug through the load?

Yours, Wayne

 

[Herm]

Gargy, is this a simple Y cord that you made your self? If so how do you avoid the following hazard: plug one of the male 120V plugs into a receptacle, plug the load into the 240V receptacle, and now you have energized the other 120V male plug through the load?

Yours, Wayne

It is a dangerous thing to do, the right way to do it is to put in a 6-20R socket that matches the plug on the modified EVSE.. he can tap it off the two existing 120V lines.

 

[garygid]

Wayne,
How does one avoid that?
Just do not plug-in in that sequence.

One can safely plug both of the 5-15P plugs in first,
then connect the 240v load to the "live" L6-20R "socket".
Not really too difficult.

But, caution and proper care is suggested whenever
plugging into (or unplugging from) any live socket, right?

 

[Ingineer]

I too would like to go on record and say that someone could be killed if they unplug one of those 120v ends on that homebrew 240v adapter and touch it.

I'd appreciate it if someone published details on how to build a safer variant. All you'd need is couple of SPST 120v coil relays mounted in a small box. It could even be built into an outlet box if you chose compact relays. Add a 240v pilot light and you've got everything the Quick220 does.

If I get some free time, I'll build one and post the details. I'd hate to see someone get hurt or killed!

Note that if you convince people to build such an adapter, and someone gets hurt, you could be sued!

-Phil

 

[wwhitney]

Wayne,
How does one avoid that?
Just do not plug-in in that sequence.

I would respectfully submit that it is unprofessional to create a cord like that which relies on correct user sequencing to be used safely. There is a reason that double male electrical cords are called "suicide cords"; your cord is about as dangerous.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[wwhitney]

Wayne,
How does one avoid that?
Just do not plug-in in that sequence.

In case it is not obvious, the problem with this is that it relies on an informed user, and despite your intentions, you have no way of ensuring that all users will be informed. Plus, even informed users make mistakes.

You could make your cord less dangerous if you were to rigidly connect the two plugs together so that they had to be plugged/unplugged in the same motion.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Volusiano]

Phil, do you think you can build and sell a similar device to the Quick220 that contains all the same safety features the Quick220 has (see below) for much less than the $185 it's being sold for? And also with an LED light that to indicate that the 2 120V receptacles are from separate circuits?

If so, you should build and offer it as an option on your web page as well.

"Patented safety circuit checks and automatically locks out power circuits until connections and voltages are correct.

Interlock immediately and simultaneously electrically disconnects all input and output power lines if one of the 110/120 volt cords becomes disconnected or looses power."

 

[Ingineer]

Phil, do you think you can build and sell a similar device to the Quick220 that contains all the same safety features the Quick220 has (see below) for much less than the $185 it's being sold for? And also with an LED light that to indicate that the 2 120V receptacles are from separate circuits?

If so, you should build and offer it as an option on your web page as well.

"Patented safety circuit checks and automatically locks out power circuits until connections and voltages are correct.

Interlock immediately and simultaneously electrically disconnects all input and output power lines if one of the 110/120 volt cords becomes disconnected or looses power."

Yes, I could do this, but I simply don't have the time. The admin work and upgrades themselves are eating up almost all of my spare time.

-Phil

 

[adric22]

No need to explain EVSE, call it a charging cable, a charging cord, charging dock, just not a charger because that is confusing to people who know the difference and to those who are learning proper terms. It's easy.

I agree. I run a computer business and sell tons of laptop computers. Many customers call the little AC/DC adapter all kinds of things: A charger, charging cord, power adapter, power brick, charging brick, battery charger, etc. Truth is the "charger" is inside of the laptop, the little brick simply supplies the correct power to the laptop for it to operate. But you don't see me standing around correcting each person since I know what they are talking about.

Granted, I do get irritated when a customer points at a desktop computer and calls it a hard drive. I get that a lot. This a problem though because the incorrect usage of the term leads to confusion in many cases. A customer might call me on the phone and say "I bought a hard drive from you and blah blah blah." Well, since I also sell hard drives I have to first figure out if they are talking about a hard drive or a computer. So in this case, a distinction is very necessary.

In the case of the electric car, however, anytime somebody talks about a charging station, charger, or charging cord we are all going to immediately know what they are talking about because nobody besides a technician is likely to ever be messing with the actually charger inside the car.