Whats the issue with driving slow/speed limit?

[SkiTundra]

The safest speed to travel, for both you and others, is at about the 85th - 90th percentile. EG, faster than about 85%, slower than about 10%. People driving significantly slower than surrounding traffic cause more crashes than people driving significantly faster. Fatalities causes are split approximately evenly between slower and faster. The number one cause of road rage is left-lane-vigilante's, someone intentionally slowing or braking when being tailgated (over 96% of these incidences on multi-lane roadways is in other than the rightmost lane). The number two cause is someone driving slow in ANY lane other than the rightmost lane (three is someone not using their blinker, four is someone not getting up to the prevailing speed of traffic to merge)

Most evening traffic jams (morning are completely different) would be avoided if all drivers kept up with the car in front of them. Worse, most in the 12 largest commuting cities are caused by no more than two slow drivers.

I won't even go in to the stats on extra fuel burned by slow drivers causing traffic jams.

 

[planet4ever]

The safest speed to travel, for both you and others, is at about the 85th - 90th percentile. EG, faster than about 85%, slower than about 10%.

I'm having trouble understanding how more than 10-15% of the drivers could follow a rule like that. Though maybe the reason so many people speed is because they keep trying to follow that rule, and so do the people around them.

No, I definitely don't think it is a good idea to recommend being in the fastest 15% of all drivers.

Ray

 

[DaveEV]

The safest speed to travel, for both you and others, is at about the 85th - 90th percentile. EG, faster than about 85%, slower than about 10%.

I'm having trouble understanding how more than 10-15% of the drivers could follow a rule like that. Though maybe the reason so many people speed is because they keep trying to follow that rule, and so do the people around them.

LOL - you're not the only one.

 

[waitingforaleaf]

LOL - you're not the only one.

Agreed. :?

 

[Anonymous]

That may be in CA because you have 'enter' and 'exit' areas, but here, you are absolutely incorrect. The HOV is NOT a speed lane here;only the left lane next to the HOV lane is. If there is slow traffic in the 'left/fast' lane, then people in the HOV lane need to slow down below the speed limit as a critical safety issue as you have to have enough time for cars that want to get into the HOV lane. When there isn't a lot of traffic, it's perfectly and legally acceptable to drive in the HOV at the speed limit. If others want to pass, they can easily go into the 'fast' lane to the right and legally pass. I can't speak for CA drivers because I've never driven in those HOV lanes, so it could be a different situation there.

I disagree, although to be honest I don't remember the specific language of the "keep right except to pass" RCW. Here in Washington the HOV lanes (I presume) are like yours. There aren't specific entry/exit areas of the HOV lanes like there are in CA. I still feel that it is an additional "left" lane, it's just that you're only allowed to use it if you have more than 1 (or more than 2 in some areas) people in your vehicle. If you're still going slower than the people to your right, then move over.

I think it is particularly dangerous to have someone in a far left lane (HOV or not) going significantly slower than people to their right.

(I'll have to look up the law and see how it really applies to HOV lanes)

 

[LEAFfan]

That may be in CA because you have 'enter' and 'exit' areas, but here, you are absolutely incorrect. The HOV is NOT a speed lane here;only the left lane next to the HOV lane is. If there is slow traffic in the 'left/fast' lane, then people in the HOV lane need to slow down below the speed limit as a critical safety issue as you have to have enough time for cars that want to get into the HOV lane. When there isn't a lot of traffic, it's perfectly and legally acceptable to drive in the HOV at the speed limit. If others want to pass, they can easily go into the 'fast' lane to the right and legally pass. I can't speak for CA drivers because I've never driven in those HOV lanes, so it could be a different situation there.

I disagree, although to be honest I don't remember the specific language of the "keep right except to pass" RCW. Here in Washington the HOV lanes (I presume) are like yours. There aren't specific entry/exit areas of the HOV lanes like there are in CA. I still feel that it is an additional "left" lane, it's just that you're only allowed to use it if you have more than 1 (or more than 2 in some areas) people in your vehicle. If you're still going slower than the people to your right, then move over.
I think it is particularly dangerous to have someone in a far left lane (HOV or not) going significantly slower than people to their right.
(I'll have to look up the law and see how it really applies to HOV lanes)

You may disagree, but it is still MORE dangerous to speed above the limit and risk collision, injury, or death. It isn't fair to tell someone to "move over" or break the law when they are doing the speed limit in the HOV. They have just as much right as anyone else since they are in there to save time and for me, to be safer. Here, there are wide gaps with double lines separating the 'fast' lane from the HOV lane so you are more isolated from the other traffic which means it isn't a regular lane like the others. I will absolutely agree that if someone is going the speed limit in the FAST lane (right of HOV), and there are cars behind them and they aren't passing, they should move over.

 

[planet4ever]

That may be in CA because you have 'enter' and 'exit' areas

I think we need to correct the record here. With very rare exceptions (I know of only one), that applies only to the southernmost one quarter of the state, and I'm sure there are many places down there where it doesn't apply, either.

I really don't like the idea of those limited-access HOV lanes. I doubt if I will ever use such a lane in my LEAF, unless or until they allocate more than a single lane for them.

Ray

 

[Anonymous]

That may be in CA because you have 'enter' and 'exit' areas, but here, you are absolutely incorrect. The HOV is NOT a speed lane here;only the left lane next to the HOV lane is. If there is slow traffic in the 'left/fast' lane, then people in the HOV lane need to slow down below the speed limit as a critical safety issue as you have to have enough time for cars that want to get into the HOV lane. When there isn't a lot of traffic, it's perfectly and legally acceptable to drive in the HOV at the speed limit. If others want to pass, they can easily go into the 'fast' lane to the right and legally pass. I can't speak for CA drivers because I've never driven in those HOV lanes, so it could be a different situation there.

I disagree, although to be honest I don't remember the specific language of the "keep right except to pass" RCW. Here in Washington the HOV lanes (I presume) are like yours. There aren't specific entry/exit areas of the HOV lanes like there are in CA. I still feel that it is an additional "left" lane, it's just that you're only allowed to use it if you have more than 1 (or more than 2 in some areas) people in your vehicle. If you're still going slower than the people to your right, then move over.
I think it is particularly dangerous to have someone in a far left lane (HOV or not) going significantly slower than people to their right.
(I'll have to look up the law and see how it really applies to HOV lanes)

You may disagree, but it is still MORE dangerous to speed above the limit and risk collision, injury, or death. It isn't fair to tell someone to "move over" or break the law when they are doing the speed limit in the HOV. They have just as much right as anyone else since they are in there to save time and for me, to be safer. Here, there are wide gaps with double lines separating the 'fast' lane from the HOV lane so you are more isolated from the other traffic which means it isn't a regular lane like the others. I will absolutely agree that if someone is going the speed limit in the FAST lane (right of HOV), and there are cars behind them and they aren't passing, they should move over.

Try reading a little more carefully. I never said that you should exceed the speed limit. Nor has anyone on this thread, I don't think. What I'm saying is that if you're not PASSING the people that are on your right, then move over. I don't care if you're going 80 in a 60 or 40 in a 70, KEEP RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS.

I don't see how you could have read into my post that I was telling you to exceed the limit. I never said to speed up, I said move over.

 

[ERG4ALL]

In AZ if you have five or more vehicles stacked up behind you and you are going slower than the posted speed limit, you are supposed to pull over and let them by. This is especially true in the mountains and with slow moving Winnebagoes. If you don't you may get a ticket. However, if you are going the speed limit then you won't get a ticket.

 

[LEAFfan]

You may disagree, but it is still MORE dangerous to speed above the limit and risk collision, injury, or death. It isn't fair to tell someone to "move over" or break the law when they are doing the speed limit in the HOV. They have just as much right as anyone else since they are in there to save time and for me, to be safer. Here, there are wide gaps with double lines separating the 'fast' lane from the HOV lane so you are more isolated from the other traffic which means it isn't a regular lane like the others. I will absolutely agree that if someone is going the speed limit in the FAST lane (right of HOV), and there are cars behind them and they aren't passing, they should move over.

I never said that you should exceed the speed limit. Nor has anyone on this thread, I don't think. What I'm saying is that if you're not PASSING the people that are on your right, then move over. I don't care if you're going 80 in a 60 or 40 in a 70, KEEP RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS.
I don't see how you could have read into my post that I was telling you to exceed the limit. I never said to speed up, I said move over.[/quote]

I read it carefully, and you absolutely imply that I should either speed up or move over if I'm going the speed limit in the HOV and traffic is behind me wanting to break the speed limit. And maybe you should read more carefully about what I said about the HOV. You put the HOV and the other lanes the same, and in AZ, they are no way near the same. So YOU MOVE OVER if you want to break the law while I'm legally going the speed limit in the HOV. Again, the HOV is NOT a speed lane. It's much more dangerous than other lanes to do that if traffic is moving slower in the fast lane. You stick to your state's laws and I'll stick to mine. You're probably one of those that also believe that going the speed limit in the fast lane with several cars behind is illegal and impeding traffic. I have never done it, but it is legal here. Also drivers should move to the right from the fast lane if they aren't passing, EXCEPT in the HOV lanes.

 

[Anonymous]

I read it carefully, and you absolutely imply that I should either speed up or move over if I'm going the speed limit in the HOV and traffic is behind me wanting to break the speed limit. And maybe you should read more carefully about what I said about the HOV. You put the HOV and the other lanes the same, and in AZ, they are no way near the same. So YOU MOVE OVER if you want to break the law while I'm legally going the speed limit in the HOV. Again, the HOV is NOT a speed lane. It's much more dangerous than other lanes to do that if traffic is moving slower in the fast lane. You stick to your state's laws and I'll stick to mine. You're probably one of those that also believe that going the speed limit in the fast lane with several cars behind is illegal and impeding traffic. I have never done it, but it is legal here. Also drivers should move to the right from the fast lane if they aren't passing, EXCEPT in the HOV lanes.

Really? What specifically did I say to "imply that you should either speed up or move over"? I never said speed up. Show me specifically how I implied going faster and I will be happy to apologize. Otherwise, let's both drop it.

And yes, it sounds like we're splitting hairs on our different state laws. I thought, by your comment about CA HOV lanes, that yours would be similar to Washington's. Apparently they are not. That is why I said "here in Washington..." when I was talking about the HOV lanes being another farther left lane.

 

[Deleted member 3645]

Wow, this started quite the discussion! Thanks for all the responses. It seems most people generally agree with me, that traveling at speed limits, or slightly below, in a far right lane as is possible, is not dangerous or excessive to do, more or less. Glad you all mostly agree.

I just saw lots of references in many discussions over lack of speed, and feeling guilty bad about it, and I thought it should get out the proper views people had on the subject.

Thanks, Stefan

 

[TonyWilliams]

... that applies only to the southernmost one quarter of the state, and I'm sure there are many places down there where it doesn't apply, either.

I really don't like the idea of those limited-access HOV lanes. I doubt if I will ever use such a lane in my LEAF, unless or until they allocate more than a single lane for them.

Ray

Down here in the absolute southern most quarter, we have multiple lane HOV lanes in both directions, with a sliding center median (so that there can be 3 north bound lanes, and 1 south bound, and vice versa, depending on traffic).

I use it daily with the LEAF.

 

[Herm]

with a sliding center median (so that there can be 3 north bound lanes, and 1 south bound, and vice versa, depending on traffic).

How do they switch the lanes?, do you get people going the wrong way at the wrong time?

 

[Randy3]

Interesting thread.

We travel from Fresno to Stanford hospital every month or two (using the ICE, of course). Coming back home in the late afternoon/evening, highway 85 has an HOV lane that we can use because there are 2 or more in the car. Going through San Jose using the HOV lane is sometimes crazy. It's not a separated HOV lane like some Southern California areas. Being from Fresno, I'm not used to HOV driving and the congestion on the non-HOV lanes varies a lot. There will be long stretches where the non-HOV lanes are a parking lot, followed by a few miles where people will pass me on the right if I stay in the HOV lane.

My wife, situated in the back seat, will complain that I'm scaring her when the lanes to the right are stopped and we're in the HOV lane trying to keep up with HOV traffic. I'll be driving with one foot hovered over the brake waiting for the person in the parking lot to my right to jump in front of me.

So, questions to you all who are HOV lifers -- what do you do when the HOV lane isn't really needed? For those few miles where the parking lot portion clears up and you could move over out of HOV. Do you move to the right, then jump back to HOV a few minutes later when it's crowded again?

And, when the HOV lane isn't separate from the other lanes and the other lanes are very congested, how much faster then the parking lot to my right is it safe to drive?

 

[TonyWilliams]

with a sliding center median (so that there can be 3 north bound lanes, and 1 south bound, and vice versa, depending on traffic).

How do they switch the lanes?, do you get people going the wrong way at the wrong time?

SAN DIEGO -- They weigh 30 tons. They are 58 feet long. They get five miles to the gallon.

And at a top speed of 10 mph, the region's two new "barrier transfer machines" can shift a mile of heavy, concrete freeway barriers in six or seven minutes and give motorists in a particularly busy direction of travel an extra lane.

Chances are you've seen a similar machine in action on the Coronado Bridge. Some day, you will have to get used to sharing the road with the truck-like devices when you drive on Interstate 15.

The plan is to use the machines to regularly rearrange the number of southbound and northbound express lanes -- those under construction on I-15 -- so that they give priority to the heaviest traffic. However, the machines are expected to be used sparingly at first.

The two machines were delivered to the local California Department of Transportation office a month ago at a cost of $1 million each, said Pedro Orso-Delgado, Caltrans' San Diego district director.

Coupled with the $10 million moveable barriers being built along eight miles of I-15, the machines represent a $12 million investment, he said.

Read more: http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/sdcounty/article_bbb7555f-b384-5e1f-b68a-7a585cb44359.html#ixzz1Z2DTx1W5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[tps]

How do they switch the lanes?, do you get people going the wrong way at the wrong time?

When I was a growing up, Columbia Parkway (Cincinnati) had bi-directional lanes with lighted red "X" and green "arrow" indicators above the lanes. I never had a problem with it. But the movable center barrier better contains today's distracted drivers...

 

[Yodrak]

The Tappan Zee bridge just north of NY City has had a machine like this for more than a decade. The Walt Whitman bridge between Philadelphia and New Jersey has one also, but I don't know for how long.

They're great!

SAN DIEGO -- They weigh 30 tons. They are 58 feet long. They get five miles to the gallon.

And at a top speed of 10 mph, the region's two new "barrier transfer machines" can shift a mile of heavy, concrete freeway barriers in six or seven minutes and give motorists in a particularly busy direction of travel an extra lane.

 

[SkiTundra]

The safest speed to travel, for both you and others, is at about the 85th - 90th percentile. EG, faster than about 85%, slower than about 10%.

I'm having trouble understanding how more than 10-15% of the drivers could follow a rule like that. Though maybe the reason so many people speed is because they keep trying to follow that rule, and so do the people around them.

No, I definitely don't think it is a good idea to recommend being in the fastest 15% of all drivers.

Ray

Very disappointed nobody even did a search to try to prove me wrong... Anyway... If everybody actually did try to drive at the 85th percentile you'd eventually reach an equilibrium where everyone was driving the same speed. That will never happen though. SO, the reason YOU want to be driving at the 85th percentile regardless is that it gives you the most control over your destiny. Driving slower than this increases your risks of being in a crash (and slower than the 60th percentile increases your risks by a huge margin), most often from someone hitting you. Faster than the 95th percentile also increases risk significantly though this often includes other factors.

I was going to try to insert one of our charts but couldn't figure out how to on this board.

Note: The safest roadway is one where everyone is driving the exact same speed. The best way to do this is to try to set an equilibrium speed so traffic engineers, those extremely intelligent beings who religiously drive at about the 90th percentile for their own safety, like to set the speed limit at, you guessed it, the 85th percentile of existing traffic speed. Politicians and LE fight this though because it cuts down on one of their primary sources of revenue and the one that they can most easily control when they need some extra walking around change.

 

[LEAFfan]

Note: The safest roadway is one where everyone is driving the exact same speed.

So if everyone is doing 20 over the speed limit (85 in a 65) you are saying that is the safest? Sorry, I strongly disagree. When we had a 55mph national speed limit years ago, collisions, traffic deaths and injuries were reduced by a significant amount. And not everyone was going 55 either. There were many stats to back this up. You may be too young to remember.