3 years oldalozzy said:Why the Model 3 when you can get a 3 year old S 60 for around $40K?
Dwindling warranty
Too big
Less range
No AP2
No tax credits
3 years oldalozzy said:Why the Model 3 when you can get a 3 year old S 60 for around $40K?
Lowest price today is 46800.alozzy said:Why the Model 3 when you can get a 3 year old S 60 for around $40K?
I'll play:SageBrush said:3 years oldalozzy said:Why the Model 3 when you can get a 3 year old S 60 for around $40K?
Dwindling warranty
Too big
Less range
No AP2
No tax credits
That's a bit misleading. The lesser priced CPOs disappear so quickly that you won't often see them listed. One needs to be working with a CPO advisor to grab one that fits one's wants when it pops up. CPOs below $40k do exist (although if they have mileage over 50k they get only a two year, up to 100k total miles, basic warranty).evnow said:Lowest price today is 46800.
+ tax = 52,000...
The battery would certainly be too small to take supercharging at anything like the maximum rate, and if you want to road trip 140 miles max equates to only 98 miles max if you SC to 80% and keep a 10% reserve, before any deductions for anything else (HVAC, cold, rain, climb, headwinds), when brand new. Given that the SC network now still has gaps that an S60 has to drive with care (or simply can't cross) I don't see the S40 as being really viable for road trips, and given the typical Model S buyer's income, I agree with them that the S40 wasn't worth continuing with. Judging by what I see on a daily basis, even the S60 has sold a lot less well than Model S' with bigger batteries. I don't doubt that there were some people like you who would have been okay with an S40 and SC, but Tesla needed to cover the majority of their market first, and make the greatest profit per car to keep going.evnow said:GRA said:But Model S buyers could afford to pay more for more useful range, and almost all did, so they discontinued it. IIRC, Tesla said only about 4% of reservation holders opted for the S40, so they dropped it. Made sense to me - why buy such a big, roomy car and then skimp on the range?
That's somewhat revisionist.
Tesla severely handicapped Model S 40 by not allowing supercharging. This made it "super" unattractive to a lot of us who wanted to get the S 40. They even lied saying the battery would be too small to take supercharging (IIRC it was Tesla and not the forum folks defending Tesla).
PS : Looking back - I think the reason they didn't want to give super charging was, they didn't want to install superchargers at the interval needed for a 140 mile EV. This makes some sense, but not the logic offered at that time.
The history of the mythical "$50,000" (the quotation marks are there for a reason) model TSLA S, the (equally mythical?) "$35,000" model 3, began with the same Prophesy:jlv said:The S40 wasn't "$50,000" but actually originally $57,400.abasile said:I agree that the majority of Model 3 buyers will probably go for the Premium Upgrades Package for an additional $5000.edatoakrun said:I'm sure TSLA will eventually deliver at least a few 3's at the ~$36,000 price, and maybe you'll get one.
But I also expect them to be about as rare as "$50,000" model Ss were, and for the same reason.
However, the "$50,000" Model S of which you speak, the Model S 40, had only about 160 miles of range as I recall.
https://www.tesla.com/blog/secret-tesla-motors-master-plan-just-between-you-and-meThe Secret Tesla Motors Master Plan (just between you and me)
Elon Musk, Co-Founder & CEO of Tesla Motors August 2, 2006
...Build sports car (Lotus-based roadster)
Use that money to build an affordable car (model S)
Use that money to build an even more affordable car (model 3)...
http://www.mercurynews.com/2007/11/28/tesla-names-new-ceo/Tesla names new CEO
...Ground-breaking for a factory in New Mexico that will assemble Tesla’s second car, a four-door electric sedan that might cost around $50,000, still hasn’t happened. When it was announced in February, it was said the first shovel would hit soil in April...
https://www.wired.com/2009/03/leaked-photo-te/...The Model S will have a list price of $57,400, but the $7,500 federal tax credit for EVs and plug-in hybrids will bring that down to ...$49,900...
http://jalopnik.com/laptesla-kills-the-50-000-model-s-makes-the-media-the-464831618Tesla Kills The $50,000 Model S, Makes The Media The Fools Of April
....the long-promised 40 kWh battery — i.e. the $50,000 Tesla — is being killed. That's a damn shame, because when the government invested in Tesla it was with the promise of building a car regular people could theoretically afford as opposed to merely expensive electric cars for rich folks...
"Also being announced today is that the small battery option for the Model S will not enter production, due to lack of demand. Only four percent of customers chose the 40 kWh battery pack, which is not enough to justify production of that version. Customers are voting with their wallet that they want a car that gives them the freedom to travel long distances when needed."
I call bullshit. Tesla never seriously marketed the 40 kWh car. They didn't EPA test it. They didn't ever make it seem like they ever wanted anyone to buy it. It never got close to production. For all the media hype about it, Tesla is still trying so hard to catch up with the 60 kWh and top-of-the-line 85 kWh models.
This also completely goes back on one of the promises of Tesla, which was to be profitable building cars a relatively normal family could afford. This is a failure being wrapped up as a success and I can't wait to see how many media outlets fall for it.
If you were one of the few people who ordered a 40 kWh model, Tesla is going to take care of you by giving you a 60 kWh model with a software-limited range (that you can pay more to have turned up to 60) and a built-in Supercharger..
Everyone who wrote about a $50,000 EV got taken, though. I'm sure we did at some point.
Add another 100 miles for me.dgpcolorado said:Since I am 338 miles from the nearest Service Center, it is not trivial to get warranty issues corrected, as it is for most people.
I strongly advise you to watch the 24 min video on youtube entitled "My 2,000+ mile Full Self Driving Tesla Model X AutoPilot Trip from DC to Naples | AP2".IssacZachary said:$35,000 to $50,000 can sure buy a lot of airplane tickets though... Of course that would take the fun out of having a "road" trip.EVDRIVER said:There will be a big speed difference on road trips with the larger pack and also you can come in at higher SOC at a higher KW rate.
For me, part of the reason I bought the Leaf because I'm sick of driving long distances. I think 60 miles is just about right to have to get out and stretch the ol' legs. I know that some are optimistic about this auto-pilot Tesla has to offer as another way to avoid having to drive hours on end. But I don't think that it's going to be of much help here in Colorado where most of my road trips involve dirt or snow covered roads or roads that have all their paint scraped off due to previous snow plowing. For an example, I'm planning a trip over Kebler Pass, which is all dirt. And letting a computer decide how to take corners going over a winding mountain pass doesn't quite convince me yet.
Is there anyone here who has had experience with this Tesla technology yet? I'd be interested to hear how well it works. How does the thing do when you're going down a 40mph section and you come up to a 25mph curve? I hate it when I'm with someone who thinks that those advisory speed signs mean nothing and take the curve at 40mph. If there's just a bit of ice or sand on the road then we're flipped over in the ditch, or off the side of the pass down a 100ft drop. And if not, I usually am car sick by that point and need to throw up.
FUDJoe6pack said:<span>Go over to <a href="http://www.myelectriccarforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=67" class="interlinkr">Tesla<span class="tip">Visit the Tesla Forum</span></a> Motors Club dot com and check out the threads on EAP and TACC. They estimate it fails about 15% of the time. It sounds like an accident waiting to happen.</span>
So after the next few months time frame that you reference, when some people are actually buying the Model 3 for $35,000, what are you going to use then as your main complaint?edatoakrun said:But surely with TSLAs production of the "more affordable car", the "$35,000 model 3", which will cost all buyers at least $50,000, for at least the next few months...
This time, it will be different.
I actually agree it's an accident waiting to happen, but strangely despite its obvious shortcomings evidently it is resulting in lower crash numbers than human drivers--it's already increasing safety. So what that tells me is that humans are even worse drivers than I originally thought.Joe6pack said:Go over to Tesla Motors Club dot com and check out the threads on EAP and TACC. They estimate it fails about 15% of the time. It sounds like an accident waiting to happen.
DaveinOlyWA said:internalaudit said:evnow said:I know you didn't mean this - but just a fun fact.
Nissan-Renault is now the world's largest automaker, beating VW & Toyota for the first 6 months of this year.
http://fortune.com/2017/07/28/renault-nissan-largest-automaker/
In other news - there is a lot of griping by Model 3 reservation holders that the options on 3 are too expensive and this the uptake will be lower.
Another thing with the Tesla Model 3 is that aside from the $1k reservation deposit, another $2,500 is required to secure a delivery date. The issue I find is Tesla's financing department (partnership with FI's and not in-house) will not pre-approve a borrower until 30 days before delivery. It would be better if credit check is done before that $2,500 deposit is placed and if the financial circumstances and employment situation don't change much, then at least the borrower will feel at ease that he will be approved just prior to delivery.
Tesla is offering 2.5% 8-year financing here in Canada and I think that's a pretty good deal but auto loans from other FI's will be at least 6% per annum. Car makers' financing/leasing arms provide subsidy and I guess with Tesla, the Model S and X buyers are generally the well to do to affluent households.
My wife and I have good credit and above median household income but of course we do have sizable mortgage, some loans (backed by investments) and a RAV4 loan that will have around 18 months left. We usually financed between 3 and 4 years but if the rate stays the same from the 4th to the 8th year, I might as well take the offer especially when we are going to pay MSRP anyway.
I'm just being pragmatic because no way am I going to pay 6%/year to finance a vehicle, not even a Tesla, if we're not approved for financing.
Many reservation holders will be in a similar boat. This could come as a surprise if they get rejected by Tesla Financing and will need to pay a higher interest rate than they expected.
I've raised the issue on TMC but hey, the fans just told me to have a back up auto loan ready. In Canada, the FI's work as an oligopoly so 6% is the minimum for auto loans, even to excellent paying borrowers.
your financial options seems cracked. I have to think that you know your options better than most but has Tesla really been that strict about loans? Is there anything on your side that could be used against you in this determination? Hard for me to believe in this day and age that you couldn't have a good idea of whether you will get that loan or not?
EatsShootsandLeafs said:So after the next few months time frame that you reference, when some people are actually buying the Model 3 for $35,000, what are you going to use then as your main complaint?edatoakrun said:But surely with TSLAs production of the "more affordable car", the "$35,000 model 3", which will cost all buyers at least $50,000, for at least the next few months...
This time, it will be different.
Do you not realize that in 2016 CR rated tesla owners as the happiest with their cars of all vehicle brands? And Nissan was near the bottom of the list?
edatoakrun said:By Spring 2009, "affordable" had become $57,400, before the tax credit:
Some being a very small number, is what makes your statement almost true.EatsShootsandLeafs said:So after the next few months time frame that you reference, when some people are actually buying the Model 3 for $35,000...edatoakrun said:But surely with TSLAs production of the "more affordable car", the "$35,000 model 3", which will cost all buyers at least $50,000, for at least the next few months...
This time, it will be different.
The LEAF, of course, has a well-deserved reputation for reliability.internalaudit said:...Nissan isn't known for reliability too...
Well, I always said the Gen one volt was also a poor value, though not as poor as the Tesla S.evnow said:...I suggest you do similar research on how Volt got from "comfortably below $30k" to $40k when it finally came out.edatoakrun said:By Spring 2009, "affordable" had become $57,400, before the tax credit:
SageBrush said:FUDJoe6pack said:<span>Go over to <a href="http://www.myelectriccarforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=67" class="interlinkr">Tesla<span class="tip">Visit the Tesla Forum</span></a> Motors Club dot com and check out the threads on EAP and TACC. They estimate it fails about 15% of the time. It sounds like an accident waiting to happen.</span>
Go back to your beer
Just accept the fact that some witless people cry FUD, showing they are unable to make any useful comment.Joe6pack said:How is it FUD...
I was researching as I am interested in possibly replacing my LEAF with a used MS. Right now, I would take a car without AutoPilot over one with it. Seriously.
Your response demonstrates a real lack of credibility.
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