Official Tesla Model 3 thread

lorenfb said:

EVDRIVER said:

Please show me how Tesla positions the model 3 in any way.

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Given the M3's cost of production with overhead, i.e. greater than $35K, and with its essentially same MS features, it's positioned as a lower
cost MS and not an entry level BEV.

EVDRIVER said:

Yes we know your LEAF meets your transportation needs but that was never the question and it was still outdated BEFORE it was sold in many aspects, that's an absolute fact.

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That's a naive argument. As long as a product fits a consumer's needs and is priced properly, it's a viable product for that market segment.
As an example, the original flip-phone still sells well against smartphones.

EVDRIVER said:

Automatic updates built into pricing? So now you are on the Tesla finance team and you know how they build pricing models?

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Luckily Elon doesn't have you as his Marketing VP, given your lack of understanding of what features and support need to be factored
into a product's final price.

EVDRIVER said:

Tesla as a company has likely done more for this marketplace and the future of this country than any other company in this space IMO.

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A bit much, isn't it?

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No, it's actually very true, Tesla is the springboard for everything he has done which as we know is trivial. Your opinions do not reflect what Tesla does or hears from their customers in general. You clearly have never driven any Tesla and are not even privy to that, others here have owned a LEAF and a Tesla and some people here actually know Elon and other executives at Tesla personally. Keep living in your bubble but can you start your own Tesla haters thread or at least look at one sometime. You have some valid points but most of what you say about the product and marketing has no factual basis and is slanted with your secret Tesla envy You are making Dan Fredrickson look logical now :roll:

EVDRIVER said:

You are making Dan Fredrickson look logical now :roll:

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OT. That ref went right past me without eliciting any recognition. Care to provide an explanation/link to an example?

If you read or have been on many EV forums for the past 10 years you would know who he is He stays off MNL.

lorenfb said:

EVDRIVER said:

Tesla as a company has likely done more for this marketplace and the future of this country than any other company in this space IMO.

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A bit much, isn't it?

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Well the fact that mnl has a model s thread model x, model3, semi, corperate outlook and probably a few other threads and about every other ev site has the same number of threads discussing Tesla. Several automakers credit Tesla with pushing them to offer an ev. Without Tesla we'd be talking about Corbin sparrow, meyers motors and other similar offerings.

This guy has a split screen video comparing the ride of his Leaf to that of his 3 (worse), traveling the same route:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/three-weeks-and-my-biggest-disapointment-in-the-model-3.106924/

cwerdna said:

This guy has a split screen video comparing the ride of his Leaf to that of his 3 (worse), traveling the same route:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/three-weeks-and-my-biggest-disapointment-in-the-model-3.106924/

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Worse is pretty subjective. If you want spongy, bouncy, soft suspension you have the LEAF and you sacrifice handling significantly. There are differences on all Tesla models and it depends on wheels, suspension type, weight, etc. LEAF suspension is made for the Japanese market and american commuters it is not comparable to a M3 suspension at so many levels. Some people think an S with springs is stiff and harsh, it's really not with std wheels. If you don;t think LEAf suspension is soft then you will hate the 3 suspension.

EVDRIVER said:

cwerdna said:

This guy has a split screen video comparing the ride of his Leaf to that of his 3 (worse), traveling the same route:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/three-weeks-and-my-biggest-disapointment-in-the-model-3.106924/

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Worse is pretty subjective. If you want spongy, bouncy, soft suspension you have the LEAF and you sacrifice handling significantly. There are differences on all Tesla models and it depends on wheels, suspension type, weight, etc. LEAF suspension is made for the Japanese market and american commuters it is not comparable to a M3 suspension at so many levels. Some people think an S with springs is stiff and harsh, it's really not with std wheels. If you don;t think LEAf suspension is soft then you will hate the 3 suspension.

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Hard for me to characterize Leaf's suspension softness. I posted my impressions at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=470485#p470485 vs. some other cars I've had/still have. It's certainly nowhere near as good/soft as my 02 Maxima. However, my Maxima had horrible handling compared to my very harsh and bouncy 04 350Z.

cwerdna said:

This guy has a split screen video comparing the ride of his Leaf to that of his 3 (worse), traveling the same route:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/three-weeks-and-my-biggest-disapointment-in-the-model-3.106924/

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It's a good visual of the differences between them.

I've heard the 3's ride is rougher, but this is of course by design. You get rough and responsive, or comfy and cushy. Few cars can offer both (some can via adjustable suspension, for example).

As an extreme comparison, run the same test with a minivan and an exotic. The latter won't handle bumps as gracefully, and you'll feel them.

cwerdna said:

This guy has a split screen video comparing the ride of his Leaf to that of his 3 (worse), traveling the same route:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/three-weeks-and-my-biggest-disapointment-in-the-model-3.106924/

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Wow! Interesting video. Thanks!

palmermd said:

lorenfb said:

EVDRIVER said:

Tesla as a company has likely done more for this marketplace and the future of this country than any other company in this space IMO.

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A bit much, isn't it?

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Well the fact that mnl has a model s thread model x, model3, semi, corperate outlook and probably a few other threads and about every other ev site has the same number of threads discussing Tesla. Several automakers credit Tesla with pushing them to offer an ev. Without Tesla we'd be talking about Corbin sparrow, meyers motors and other similar offerings.

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Yes, Tesla has been a minor factor, but have you overlooked future automotive OEM fuel consumption mandates and that in some cities
ICEVs will no longer be allowed as being the key motivators.

lorenfb said:

EVDRIVER said:

Tesla as a company has likely done more for this marketplace and the future of this country than any other company in this space IMO.

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A bit much, isn't it?

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The fact is - Tesla has generated more interest about EVs than any other company. That is indisputable.

You may or may not think the Tesla hype is warranted - that's a different question.

evnow said:

lorenfb said:

EVDRIVER said:

Tesla as a company has likely done more for this marketplace and the future of this country than any other company in this space IMO.

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A bit much, isn't it?

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The fact is - Tesla has generated more interest about EVs than any other company.

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Yes, that's the more appropriate logic.

lorenfb said:

evnow said:

The fact is - Tesla has generated more interest about EVs than any other company.

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Yes, that's the more appropriate logic.

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Generating interest in a new product is no easy task. Any of the established companies would kill to get the hype Tesla gets.

Interest is what you need to get started on converting fossil fuel cars to EVs.

Tesla did pretty much zero marketing on the 3. The don't position it, they don't officially segment it yet some here act as though there is a full campaign to sell and segment it to the other cars in the line. Complete nonsense.

lorenfb said:

palmermd said:

lorenfb said:

A bit much, isn't it?

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Well the fact that mnl has a model s thread model x, model3, semi, corperate outlook and probably a few other threads and about every other ev site has the same number of threads discussing Tesla. Several automakers credit Tesla with pushing them to offer an ev. Without Tesla we'd be talking about Corbin sparrow, meyers motors and other similar offerings.

Click to expand...

Yes, Tesla has been a minor factor, but have you overlooked future automotive OEM fuel consumption mandates and that in some cities
ICEVs will no longer be allowed as being the key motivators.

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Yes Tesla has been a minor factor on this "LEAF" forum and a major factor in the industry. When Audi and others said they would never produce an EV The model S sure woke them up. Then there is Lutz who said they could never launch production EVs yet after years and years after the EV1 the best GM can offer out of pressure to respond is the Bolt which is basically a LG car with a GM frame and bad GM seats. Pretty sad attempt based on the history but in line with it as well. Tesla is driving changes in the way power is delivered and forcing charging infrastructure changes. Consider how the EV market would look today without them. Nissan is a very conservative Japanese company and they need to be forced to follow the leader yet they are still slow to get on board as the first mass production EV. You would not believe the perceptions of executive level members of major EU auto makers on EVs seven years ago, Tesla has changed their minds and that's no minor feat. Time to update my block list...

I went into Boston for the first time in a few months just to see the 3 on display in Tesla's downtown showroom. I spent about 25 minutes waiting in line for just 2 minutes behind the wheel. It was well worth it. I liked the feel of the driving position.

It was very interesting to experience the displayless dash myself. I think the positioning of the touchscreen appears just close enough for it to not matter when actually driving the car. The dashless car with just the 15" touchscreen is definitely something one will need to get used to.

Just to feed the trolls: there was a clear misalignment on the panel next to the front passenger door. So obviously their QC is still falling down on the job. Keep shorting. :lol:

Tesla has indeed forced the industry's hand in ways no other manufacturer was going to do. Not just anecdotal, some are plainly saying it. Ferrari has committed to an electric super car now because of Tesla.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/614900/ferrari-says-itll-do-an-ev-supercar-before-tesla/

And the reason is not hard to see. Fully aware 0-60 isn't everything, but as it is tesla's family sedan can match every car on the planet except for perhaps 1-2, and their roadster will be the fastest out there. From a rolling start in particular, where you can't wind up the engine, nothing will touch the roadster, possibly ever, unless it's also an EV. I say possibly ever because some guy online appears convinced, after many calculations, that until tire technology changes meaningfully a street car like the standard exotic will not be faster than 2.0 seconds 0-60.

Outside of geek circles, no EV has ever really been lusted after, Tesla was the first. Even my kid wants me to get a model 3 because she's seen the various clowns on youtube she follows get one. It's cool like starbucks or apple to them. Nobody's dream car is a Leaf or a Bolt. This is what Nissan or Chevy still don't get or, perhaps more likely, they get but don't care. And so the primary clientele for these cars, and I'm okay saying this because I am one of them, are aging geeks.

Tesla didn't have to promote model 3 because musk is a hero who can do no wrong. He could announce a new toilet seat and it would get headlines. How long that kind of branding lasts I don't know. I suppose if any of his major efforts ever fail, it would be over.

jlv said:

I went into Boston for the first time in a few months just to see the 3 on display in Tesla's downtown showroom. I spent about 25 minutes waiting in line for just 2 minutes behind the wheel. It was well worth it. I liked the feel of the driving position.

It was very interesting to experience the displayless dash myself. I think the positioning of the touchscreen appears just close enough for it to not matter when actually driving the car. The dashless car with just the 15" touchscreen is definitely something one will need to get used to.

Just to feed the trolls: there was a clear misalignment on the panel next to the front passenger door. So obviously their QC is still falling down on the job. Keep shorting. :lol:

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Did you sit in the back? I'm genuinely concerned about the rear seating room in the car, leg room specifically.

EatsShootsandLeafs said:

Did you sit in the back? I'm genuinely concerned about the rear seating room in the car, leg room specifically.

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Sorry, no. I rarely have anyone in the back seat so I didn't think to do this. All I did look at was the back seats folded down ("mostly" flat). I do know there was less leg room behind the drivers seat than there is in my S, but when I'm in the S I've got over 2' of legroom behind me (I'm just 5'6").

EatsShootsandLeafs said:

jlv said:

I went into Boston for the first time in a few months just to see the 3 on display in Tesla's downtown showroom. I spent about 25 minutes waiting in line for just 2 minutes behind the wheel. It was well worth it. I liked the feel of the driving position.

It was very interesting to experience the displayless dash myself. I think the positioning of the touchscreen appears just close enough for it to not matter when actually driving the car. The dashless car with just the 15" touchscreen is definitely something one will need to get used to.

Just to feed the trolls: there was a clear misalignment on the panel next to the front passenger door. So obviously their QC is still falling down on the job. Keep shorting. :lol:

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Did you sit in the back? I'm genuinely concerned about the rear seating room in the car, leg room specifically.

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I have sat in the backseat in one and found it more than adequate for a backseat of a midsized sedan. I'm 6'2 fwiw

EatsShootsandLeafs said:

Tesla didn't have to promote model 3 because musk is a hero who can do no wrong. He could announce a new toilet seat and it would get headlines. How long that kind of branding lasts I don't know. I suppose if any of his major efforts ever fail, it would be over.

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He has stated his goals publicly so there is no surprise. What blows my mind is not only did he start a car company but a space startup. Sure he can do wrong but without his abilities and drive we would be left with the same obstruction BS we have had for years. Hopefully he will be here long enough to complete more of his trivial ventures that so many say are not possible. Too bad more American companies can't innovate in the same way, more disrupters welcome.

EVDRIVER said:

EatsShootsandLeafs said:

Tesla didn't have to promote model 3 because musk is a hero who can do no wrong. He could announce a new toilet seat and it would get headlines. How long that kind of branding lasts I don't know. I suppose if any of his major efforts ever fail, it would be over.

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He has stated his goals publicly so there is no surprise. What blows my mind is not only did he start a car company but a space startup. Sure he can do wrong but without his abilities and drive we would be left with the same obstruction BS we have had for years. Hopefully he will be here long enough to complete more of his trivial ventures that so many say are not possible. Too bad more American companies can't innovate in the same way, more disrupters welcome.

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I think he is a tech pioneer the likes of which we have not seen in a long time. If he keeps going as he has been and lives to a normal old age he may be the most meaningful influence on technology in a generation or two. I personally find him far more interesting and impressive than I ever found Jobs' apple.