How can we Encourage ICE drivers to adopt EVs?

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ERG4ALL

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Messages
603
Location
Phoenix/Show Low AZ
Like many of you I have been following the LEAF for about a year and a half. Several of my ICE friends are believing all the anti-EV hype that has been reported by some journalists. I'd like to see how many creative suggestions we can generate to tell the truth about EVs and the LEAF in particular.

Here's some thoughts that I've had. Being from Detroit and having read quite a bit about Henry Ford. I can see a pattern here. Imagine when Mr. Ford started. First, he failed twice before starting the Ford Motor Company in 1903. Now he comes out with the Model T. I'm sure many people were used to driving a horse and carriage. For them all they had to know was that a slap on the reins to go forward, a tug to on the reins to stop and a pull on the left or right rein to steer. Now Mr. Ford comes along with a product that 1) requires you to set the throttle on the steering column, 2)then set the spark advance for starting and then 3) get out of the vehicle to crank the engine to get it started (the first electric starter didn't come about until 1912). Then you had to get into the vehicle and 4) reset the spark advance, and then make sense out of three pedals 5) to shift the planetary gear set from first to second, 6) the clutch pedal to disengage the engine while shifting and 7) the brake pedal when stopping. Added to that there was very little infrastructure to refuel during long trips and the roads between cities for the most part were mud bogs in the spring. I'm sure that for a few years that must have put some people off of owning a "horseless carriage".

The pattern repeats with the LEAF. The biggest complaint I've heard is that the LEAF only has either a 100 mile range or a 73 mile range if you drive the vehicle like an ICE. I try to tell people that according to Chevrolet (an American company to be trusted [maybe]) that 70% of the people only drive 40 miles or less during an average day. Those folks drive for a week and spend many minutes at the gas pump each week. I tell them that it takes less than a minute to hook up and unhook the LEAF in their garage to charge over night at reduced electric rates and costs a fraction of what it costs with an ICE to go the same distance in a LEAF. Thus, in a week's time they will have spent no more time than they do at the gas pump at the same time they will have traveled 300 miles or more with the LEAF. And these folks have more than one car. In the early days I would like to know how many families bought a Model T and still had their horse and buggy for back up.

The Sierra Club has an interesting article (http://www.sierraclub.org/electric-vehicles/myths.aspx) talking about EVs. Although I have not been able to identify the actual studies that relate to coal generation plants being less polluting than equivalent mileage in an EV, it becomes a moot point for many of us that are using PV to charge the LEAF. It seems that for many the environmental impacts of ICEs don't register. Thus, I believe we need to explain the practical aspects regardless of one's environmental disposition.

I could go on but you get the idea. Is change insurmountable to the American public at large? Maybe we could go the Sierra Club one better and come up with a document that we could post on our LEAFs that would help people get over their fears.
 
I think posting the maintenance schedule would be a big shot in the arm for the EV. Also, once batteries get a bit better, a cheap sports car looking option would probably go over pretty well. More renewable energy to charge the cars would help too.

Unfortunately, you see it all the time on the roads, people tend to take their stress out on the pedal on the right and feel the need to smash it down as hard as they can. What was one of the first uses of the hybrid... adding horsepower to a 18 MPG SUV. :roll:

Maybe when gas is finally priced appropriately for the limited resource it is, people will change their driving habits. I try to tell people that the game of driving just changes when your focus shifts from speed to economy, it doesn't get any less fun.

My history: Long time SUV/truck driver who loved acceleration and didn't really understand how much those choices were costing me until I saw a spreadsheet that compared my XTerra to my boyfriend's Civic.
 
I think one of the biggest hurdles is having full size EVs (not goldf carts) out in public. Until then they are just a viewed as a novelty fad of tree huggers. Getting cars on the road, at the shopping centers, in the parking lots at work, getting prefrential treatment at public parking structures (like LAX) rasies their visibility. Convincing somebody that something is good but they can't have one right now but they will have to wait 1-2 years is at best difficult to achieve. There is always a small number of people that are willing to get the ball rolling. It then takes patience and perserverance to let the ball get up to speed. The best way I think to convince people is to give everyone you know a ride in the car whenever the oppurtunity presents itself. Then it becomes real to them. Then when they ask you how much does it cost to 'fill the tank' you can just say $3. The point makes itself.
 
Its going to take people like those getting Leaf's and using them in their daily lives to make people see what EV's can really do. Most people don't want to be the first to try anything, they want someone else to do the scary :eek: part for them, so that is what we are doing. By being the first ones with Leaf's, we will answer alot of questions and people will start to see that if we can do it, they can do it too.
 
The price of gas is going to get people to take a look--people who ordinarily would not.
The fact that we are sending $1Billion/day out of the country to import oil is something that needs to be more generally known. My ultraconservative neighbor down the street is more interested in my LEAF than anyone else on the block for this reason.
We need to encourage our employers to install EVSE's so people can commute without range anxiety (not to mention practically for free)--coworkers love perks.
Invite public officials to your local LEAF Enthusiasts club meetings and get them on board with giving perks like free parking to EV owners.
Other ideas?
 
Just let them drive one for a few weeks. I hopped in my Prius for the first time in weeks and it felt so slow and sluggish! To think it used to be our fast, nimble car... The LEAF has spoiled me!
 
Most people are turned off by preaching. Don't preach, simply highlight the superior points ($/mile), lower maintenance cost, let them drive it and be open about the fact that battery warranty does not cover degradation and that is in fact a gamble unless one leases. At least that has been my approach. I've offered anyone at my work the keys to go to lunch if they're interested.
 
i am an active member of priuschat.com

in my signature line

my last fillup would have cost $13.19 of electricity in my Leaf instead of the $34.60 of gas in my Prius

it has attracted some attention
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
i am an active member of priuschat.com

in my signature line

my last fillup would have cost $13.19 of electricity in my Leaf instead of the $34.60 of gas in my Prius

it has attracted some attention

That $13.19 would have cost around $6.25 here in Northern California if you were able to sign up for E9A rates, charge from Midnight-7AM, and do it at the beginning of your billing cycle when the rate is $0.056/kwH. The thing that really sold my wife on the LEAF was the dramatically reduced need for maintenance.
 
just got my bill and my actual electricity cost went from 10.2 CPK to 10.3 CPK. so have to adjust sig.

now, we used to get nearly 50% off our rates due to the Bonneville admin adjustment which was money gained from electricity sales to CALIFORNIA that we were given a portion of the sales.

that was removed for 2 years and after several legal proceedings (which probably cost double the money involved) we were given back a part of that kickback, but on this bill the total kickback amounted to about .8 cents. it used to be 2-4 cents and base rate was 6 cents making my out of pocket costs around 2-3 CPK. my connect charge (now $8 was around $6 ) used to be a significant portion of the bill
 
Give test drives to friends! I have given four test drives and every one of them has finished with a "I am so getting one of these!". Actually, I am not very interested in trying to convince an anti EV zealot of anything and am very content to just watch those sorts go bankrupt at the gas pump. In fact, it's what I prefer. :p
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
my last fillup would have cost $13.19 of electricity in my Leaf instead of the $34.60 of gas in my Prius
My last fillup of my Prius was about the same, but it would go 420 miles on that. Filling up a Leaf goes only about 80 miles for me since my commute is on the freeway. Filling up my Prius takes about ten minutes. Filling up my Leaf takes about 7 hours.
 
The biggest problem to me is we almost have to pre-qualify a prospective owner, because they don't really know enough about EVs to reach a determination as to whether it's the right choice for themselves. In most instances, as I've been talking to people about range and how different driving scenarios affect it, it almost feels like I'm being negative and throwing up objections. Instead what I'm actually trying to do is set reasonable expectations. Perhaps I just have to work on my talking points some. But I would hate to have someone come back to me and say "You said it would do 100 miles, and I'm only getting 70!"

Take today for example, I was talking to this guy who's round trip commute was 120 miles, and he was asking me how he would do with an EV. So I asked him what his day was like, thinking that if he was at his desk for 8 hours he might be able to L2 charge at the office. His response that he was often out and about visiting clients led me to tell him that he was probably not right for an EV at the moment, but he could be once adequate Quick Charge infrastructure was in place.

[rant on]Now contrast that with a discussion I was having on the Nissan LEAF UK FB page, and a guy that needed to do 100 miles a day with most of that being on the motorway (70mph limit). I was telling the guy that he wouldn't be a good fit unless he was able to opportunity charge or Quick Charge during the day, because the most he could expect at 65mph was around 85 miles and at 75mph he was probably looking at closer to 60 miles. And what does Nissan LEAF UK do...they come along and cut me off at the knees by telling the guy that they LEAF can do 108 miles! So who's setting an unreasonable expectation there? But I look like the negative nelly because I'm giving him the straight skinny and Nissan LEAF UK, who is probably from some social media contract firm and doesn't know lick about EVs, is telling him he's a great candidate for the car! [/rant off]
 
Googler said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
my last fillup would have cost $13.19 of electricity in my Leaf instead of the $34.60 of gas in my Prius
My last fillup of my Prius was about the same, but it would go 420 miles on that. Filling up a Leaf goes only about 80 miles for me since my commute is on the freeway. Filling up my Prius takes about ten minutes. Filling up my Leaf takes about 7 hours.
He's talking the cost for equivalent mileage in his LEAF... A "fill up" in the LEAF will run you somewhere around $2.50 (depending on utility rates). So he still wins. :)
 
#1 - Energy independence - Electricity is produced in the US with US derived fuel. Not good enough? Go solar!
#2 - Because the technology is cool and different from anything else out there
#3 - Reduce air pollution
#4 - Hate going to the gas station?
#5 - Stop funding terrorist
 
GeekEV said:
Googler said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
my last fillup would have cost $13.19 of electricity in my Leaf instead of the $34.60 of gas in my Prius
My last fillup of my Prius was about the same, but it would go 420 miles on that. Filling up a Leaf goes only about 80 miles for me since my commute is on the freeway. Filling up my Prius takes about ten minutes. Filling up my Leaf takes about 7 hours.
He's talking the cost for equivalent mileage in his LEAF... A "fill up" in the LEAF will run you somewhere around $2.50 (depending on utility rates). So he still wins. :)

A fillup of my Leaf costs 24 * $0.40352 = $9.68 and that gets me about 80 miles at 65mph. I'm a PG&E customer.
 
mwalsh said:
[rant on]Now contrast that with a discussion I was having on the Nissan LEAF UK FB page, and a guy that needed to do 100 miles a day with most of that being on the motorway (70mph limit). I was telling the guy that he wouldn't be a good fit unless he was able to opportunity charge or Quick Charge during the day, because the most he could expect at 65mph was around 85 miles and at 75mph he was probably looking at closer to 60 miles. And what does Nissan LEAF UK do...they come along and cut me off at the knees by telling the guy that they LEAF can do 108 miles! So who's setting an unreasonable expectation there? But I look like the negative nelly because I'm giving him the straight skinny and Nissan LEAF UK, who is probably from some social media contract firm and doesn't know lick about EVs, is telling him he's a great candidate for the car! [/rant off]

That where I reply politely that I have over 3500 miles on my Leaf....then ask them how many miles THEY have. That ought to shut them up.
 
Googler wrote:
A fillup of my Leaf costs 24 * $0.40352 = $9.68 and that gets me about 80 miles at 65mph. I'm a PG&E customer.

Doesn't PG&E have a Time of Use (TOU) rate? In Phoenix when we charge between 7PM and Noon the next day it cost about three cents per kWh at this time of year.
 
ERG4ALL said:
Googler wrote:
A fillup of my Leaf costs 24 * $0.40352 = $9.68 and that gets me about 80 miles at 65mph. I'm a PG&E customer.

Doesn't PG&E have a Time of Use (TOU) rate? In Phoenix when we charge between 7PM and Noon the next day it cost about three cents per kWh at this time of year.
Yes, there is a TOU rate specifically for EV owners and it looks like Googler is not on it. The rate he is quoting is E1 tier 5 residential (when you are over 300% of baseline, which we hit only in months where it is extremely hot). The E9A rate, which is having the whole house plus the EVSE on a single meter, begins at $0.054/kWh between Midnight-7AM weekdays and most all of the weekend. My projection is that I will get this rate for 1/2 the month until I slide up into Tier 3. Even at the end of the month, when one would be in Tier 5, the highest he would pay for Midnight-7AM is $0.18/kWh or $4.32/fillup. I'm figuring an average cost of $0.14/kWh over time, and it's still a lot cheaper than the Prius
 
gascant said:
ERG4ALL said:
Googler wrote:
A fillup of my Leaf costs 24 * $0.40352 = $9.68 and that gets me about 80 miles at 65mph. I'm a PG&E customer.

Doesn't PG&E have a Time of Use (TOU) rate? In Phoenix when we charge between 7PM and Noon the next day it cost about three cents per kWh at this time of year.
Yes, there is a TOU rate specifically for EV owners and it looks like Googler is not on it. The rate he is quoting is E1 tier 5 residential (when you are over 300% of baseline, which we hit only in months where it is extremely hot). The E9A rate, which is having the whole house plus the EVSE on a single meter, begins at $0.054/kWh between Midnight-7AM weekdays and most all of the weekend. My projection is that I will get this rate for 1/2 the month until I slide up into Tier 3. Even at the end of the month, when one would be in Tier 5, the highest he would pay for Midnight-7AM is $0.18/kWh or $4.32/fillup. I'm figuring an average cost of $0.14/kWh over time, and it's still a lot cheaper than the Prius
Who in their right mind would not opt for the EV rates? Charging under the worst case scenario? Oh and don't forget, always quote charging from flat to 24kWh for effect! :lol:
 

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