How can we Encourage ICE drivers to adopt EVs?

[GeekEV]

A fillup of my Leaf costs 24 * $0.40352 = $9.68 and that gets me about 80 miles at 65mph. I'm a PG&E customer.

Ouch! I guess you're not doing it for cost savings, huh? I'm in Roseville Electric territory and base rates run $0.11, so $2.64 for me.

 

[evnow]

A fillup of my Leaf costs 24 * $0.40352 = $9.68 and that gets me about 80 miles at 65mph. I'm a PG&E customer.

Thanks for that - it is because of people like you paying 40 cents in CA that we get lower bills here in WA. :twisted:

 

[TRONZ]

Did another test drive last night with my wife's cousin in Santa Monica. This cousin has a Prius and is now apparently mad at me. I guess I accidentally destroyed her driving world or something. She now feels her Prius is a piece of junk and not worth anything anymore. Driving our LEAF, all she could say was how much better it was! How powerful, cool, roomy, cool, techy, cool, smooth, cool, etc. I know her well. Put her down on the list to get a LEAF.

On to the next!

 

[GeekEV]

Yep, it did that to my Prius too...

 

[ENIAC]

A fillup of my Leaf costs 24 * $0.40352 = $9.68 and that gets me about 80 miles at 65mph. I'm a PG&E customer.

But then again a Bugatti Veyron which gets 15MPG (worst EPA mileage passenger vehicle, because this whole discussion is about worst case scenarios) @ $4.50 / gallon for premium would cost you $22.50. So the LEAF is 57% less expensive over those 80 mile. Think about that!

 

[Googler]

A fillup of my Leaf costs 24 * $0.40352 = $9.68 and that gets me about 80 miles at 65mph. I'm a PG&E customer.

But then again a Bugatti Veyron which gets 15MPG (worst EPA mileage passenger vehicle, because this whole discussion is about worst case scenarios) @ $4.50 / gallon for premium would cost you $22.50. So the LEAF is 57% less expensive over those 80 mile. Think about that!

This is not a "worst case". This is what millions of PG&E customers will experience when they plug their Leaf into their ordinary E1 rate plan. Worst case would be if they switch to E9A in order to get low nightime rates and then needed to charge during the day in the summer. In that case they would pay $0.56915 per kwh.

The point of this discussion is that people can have widely varying costs for the same vehicle, depending on how their electricity is priced. Carbon capture and sequestration in coal-fired electric plans will likely bring other electric rates up substantially in the years to come. You can ignore this issue if you like, but the press has picked up on the obvious: http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_17101890 There are good reasons to advocate for EVs, but the economic argument is a very complex one.

 

[ENIAC]

A fillup of my Leaf costs 24 * $0.40352 = $9.68 and that gets me about 80 miles at 65mph. I'm a PG&E customer.

But then again a Bugatti Veyron which gets 15MPG (worst EPA mileage passenger vehicle, because this whole discussion is about worst case scenarios) @ $4.50 / gallon for premium would cost you $22.50. So the LEAF is 57% less expensive over those 80 mile. Think about that!

This is not a "worst case". This is what millions of PG&E customers will experience when they plug their Leaf into their ordinary E1 rate plan. Worst case would be if they switch to E9A in order to get low nightime rates and then needed to charge during the day in the summer. In that case they would pay $0.56915 per kwh.

The point of this discussion is that people can have widely varying costs for the same vehicle, depending on how their electricity is priced. Carbon capture and sequestration in coal-fired electric plans will likely bring other electric rates up substantially in the years to come. You can ignore this issue if you like, but the press has picked up on the obvious: http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_17101890 There are good reasons to advocate for EVs, but the economic argument is a very complex one.

My Bugatti Veyron example stands.

 

[mgoleta]

Googler,

Most everyones reason seems to be reduced cost.

You must be very dedicated to driving an EV if your electric rates are that high. Why do you do it?

 

[TRONZ]

The point of this discussion is that people can have widely varying costs for the same vehicle, depending on how their electricity is priced.

Actually this discussion is supposed to be about ways of getting more people to drive EV's :roll: .

 

[gascant]

Actually this discussion is supposed to be about ways of getting more people to drive EV's :roll: .

If you live in Northern California, charge your vehicle at night when it costs only $0.054/kWh for starters.

 

[Googler]

Googler,

Most everyones reason seems to be reduced cost.

You must be very dedicated to driving an EV if your electric rates are that high. Why do you do it?

I have several motivations:
1. in California, it will qualify for the HOV lane, which will shorten my commute from 50 minutes to 30 minutes. This is my primary motivation.
2. I dislike US dependence on petroleum. I would be just as happy to see a $5/gallon tax on gasoline to pay the cost of our wars.
3. I will be able to charge my commute car at work. My employer's cost for electricity is about 1/3 of what I pay at home.

I also quality for $12,500 in tax benefits by purchasing this car. I doubt I would have purchased it otherwise, and in order for EVs to go maintstream, they will have to compete without this subsidy. The cost of driving my Prius is pretty cheap - even at $6/gallon gasoline. I'd still be paying only $.12/mile for my Prius. I also didn't have to pay thousands of dollars to upgrade my house in order to purchase fuel at that cost.

 

[Googler]

If you live in Northern California, charge your vehicle at night when it costs only $0.054/kWh for starters.

That would require me to switch to the E9A rate, which then makes all of my daytime usage much more expensive. During the summer time it would then cost between $0.3074 and $0.56915/kwh to cook, run my solar heater pump, etc. The net effect would be the same on my total electric bill, so it's not a realistic number to quote the low ball figure. Also, the $0.05294 rate is only for the first 100% of baseline, and it scales up to $0.18853 during the midnight-7am period once you cross the 200% of baseline threshold. PG&E's rate schedule is simply ridiculous for Leaf owners unless they use very little electricity or they have a PV system.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

email from Nissan on Tuesday, July 27, 2010

Your reservation info:
Reserved on: 4/20/2010

Hi, thanks for reserving your 100% electric Nissan LEAF™. We just wanted to let you know that orders will begin in your area in fall or winter 2011.

+ 4 -7 months from order to delivery or maybe more now after those tragic events in Japan.
We commute to work 140 miles a day. What option we have no public transportation and no other alternative than ICE car. I am carpooling, but my wife can’t because work schedule and no people in the area going the same direction. We have plenty of natural gas here but only 1 recharging station about 25 miles from my home. LEAF is a dream (electric power in my home!!!!) but not to disappoint myself I still have 15 – 18 months to wait. No other EV on the market that will fit our needs.
How can we Encourage ICE drivers to adopt EVs? If available more and more people will buy

For now I have to thank some that want see me bankrupt or will be happy with $5 tax on gas. Wonder if those people want to see Nissan bankrupt because is producing and selling 99% of ICE but was courageous to invest so much to give us EV for everyday use. For now, I will just wait for my Leaf to give me an alternative and same as today I will still carpool with my coworkers.

 

[tps]

1. Make them readily available! I know a few drivers, me included, who would already be driving LEAFs if we could get them.

2. Deal with range issues. This might be a combination of infrastructure and improved batteries.

Most people are content following the crowd, so at some point, maybe it will go viral. People will consider options they might otherwise not consider just because everyone else is doing it.

 

[jsvette56]

I wrote a fairly extensive blog about EVs comparing them to ICEs. I think if anyone was to look at the complexity of an ICE they'd marvel that it works at all. I expect my Leaf in April and it will be my wife's car as she usually drives our 2010 Prius around town for less than 20 miles daily.

Also, we have a solar system that currently generates excess power that we plan to use to 'fill up' the Leaf. Long term I expect EVs to encourage many people to put solar systems on their roofs just to power their cars. Read the blog if interested in the complexity vs. simplicity problem and let me know what you think.

http://mybeautifulwife.wordpress.com/2011/01/13/my-beautiful-wife-says-charge-it-3/

If interested in our test drive of the Leaf:

http://mybeautifulwife.wordpress.com/2010/10/31/my-bw-takes-a-test%C2%A0drive/

 

[copdoc]

+1: You can't adopt an EV when you can't even order one (much less take delivery.) The forgotten 48 won't even be allowed to order an EV until 2012.

Also, much as it's wonderful to beat back the oil companies, free the US from the middle east, etc, etc, even tree huggers have to make the budget balance. I would personally love to have a Tesla, but the paycheck isn't even close to the size it would need to be. (I'm not even sure I'll be able to swing my leaf which is very expensive without the CA subsidies. I estimate $450 saved each year in gas vs electricity but that does NOT account for the difference in the cost of the vehicle.)

 

[ERG4ALL]

I started this thread to get as many suggestions as I could so I could perhaps thwart some of the anti-EV articles that are appearing now. Thanks to you all for helping. Please feel free to spread this around.
__________________________________________________________
Why Drive an EV?

Easier less costly maintenance. No oil changes, fuel filter changes, injector treatments, air filter changes, radiator flushing, gas additives, etc.

Cheaper Fuel Costs. Using Time of Use (TOU) night time charging, the cost per mile can be one tenth the cost of using gasoline.

Larger Selection Than in the Past. Nissan LEAF, Ford Focus EV, Tesla Roadster, CODA, BYD, Mini E are all brands that are either on the market or will be soon.

Charging Times Have Improved. Quick Time chargers can charge the battery in a matter of minutes, not hours. Level II chargers for home and commercial use can charge in as little as 3 to 4 hours.

Availability of Chargers is Increasing. ECOtality is currently installing almost 15,000 public charging stations in the five roll-out states so you can charge while you shop.

EVs Do Not Pollute Urban Areas. Smog is largely created by the burning of gasoline. Cities can have clean air if more and more people drive EVs.

EVs Reduce the Trade Balance of Payments. EVs use energy that is generated in the United States. The U.S. pays foreign countries for 70% of our oil usage for transportation amounting to 500 million dollars per day.

Lithium-Ion Batteries Last a Long Time. Current battery packs (e.g. Nissan LEAF) are guaranteed for 8 years or 100,000 miles.

Lithium-ion Batteries Are Recyclable. Gasoline is not recyclable.

EV Range Is Acceptable for Urban Driving. 90% of Americans drive less than 100 miles per day. 70% drive 40 miles or less. Modern EVs satisfy the range requirements of the majority of the population.

Easier, Less Messy Fill-ups. No waiting for a pump at the gas station. No fiddling with locking gas caps. No spilled fuel or odor on your hands from gasoline. Fill up in your garage. It takes about 20 seconds to hook up, or unhook the charging cable.

EVs Qualify for the HOV Lanes. No need to have two or more passengers. Most states allow EVs in the HOV lane regardless of the number of passengers.

Fuel Savings and Tax Benefits Have Lowered the Price of EVs. Fuel savings alone for 12,000 miles per year can save the owner up to $2,000 per year and nearly $3,000 for 15 mpg gas guzzlers.

Modern EVs Are Not Toys. Modern EVs can transport five people and are the size or larger than many of cars most people use for commuting.

EVs Are Safe. Modern EVs have multiple airbags, traction control, anti-lock brakes just as gasoline driven cars do.

 

[TRONZ]

Don't forget, most insurance companies will give you a discount rate on Auto Insurance. 20% seems to be typical.

Also, each EV sold enables the next generation of EV's to be cheaper and have longer ranges. It's nice to know you are getting to build toward something good, than being forced to dig a hole deeper into something that is bad.

 

[ERG4ALL]

Right on TRONZ. I'll add that to the list.

 

[Electric4Me]

I started this thread to get as many suggestions as I could so I could perhaps thwart some of the anti-EV articles that are appearing now. Thanks to you all for helping. Please feel free to spread this around.
__________________________________________________________
Why Drive an EV?

Easier less costly maintenance. No oil changes, fuel filter changes, injector treatments, air filter changes, radiator flushing, gas additives, etc.

Don't get too carried away. A leaf still has a radiator that will need flushing periodically.