Jedlacks
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Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:15 pm

lorenfb wrote:
So you have concluded based on POV (your term) that the Leaf is just a compliance car for Nissan, right?
And what would you call the 20+ EVs on the InsideEVs 2016 sales list with less sales volumes than the Leaf?
Your conclusion is a non sequitar. Anything of significance to contribute to this thread?


I commend you for trying to have a discussion. I've tried reasoning before, but I just gave up and listen to the noise. On the other hand, the i3 costs twice and gives twice the trouble, and all those owners complain softly because they paid much more for theirs.
2015 SV QC/LED
Juicebox 40A

SageBrush
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Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:21 am

sendler2112 wrote:Ahhh. Nice dissertation... But POV is short for point of view.
:mrgreen: :lol:
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

lorenfb
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Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:10 pm

drees wrote:Many early adopters are able to make rational decisions based on all available data.


But many early adopters, e.g. Leaf buyers, were naive when purchasing a product with a total reliance on a battery,
i.e. most who have owned a consumer product (laptop) for the last 25+ years with a battery should have been aware
of its inherent problem - battery degradation. Yes, battery temperature control would have reduced some of the
increased degradation but at the expense of a significant range reduction for the Leaf. When you have a BEV with
a 85 kWh battery, you can easily expend some of that energy to reduce somewhat battery degradation, but you still
have the long term inherent problem of energy being stored in a sealed chemical process. Nissan's product marketing
decision about what features to provide, what technology to use, and at what price point, was valid even in hindsight.

The introduction of the early Nissan Leaf still provides many, as outlined in this thread by some, a very reliable vehicle,
notwithstanding the battery which a few now have purchased replacements for, not an inexpensive repair. That decision
would have been very unlikely for most ICEVs with mileages exceeding 100K. So, some on this thread should be in
support of Nissan's Gen 1 BEV product decision, as they now have access to a very reasonable BEV that's fits many
driver's transportation needs at a very overall cost effective price.

lorenfb
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Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:27 pm

drees wrote:
lorenfb wrote:And what would you call the 20+ EVs on the InsideEVs 2016 sales list with less sales volumes than the Leaf?

All compliance cars.


That's a "stretch"! Using that inference, all EV manufacturers except Tesla are compliance manufacturers, right?
If true and without the Mode E, that doesn't bode well for those who look forward to the extinction of the ICEV.

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JPWhite
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Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:40 pm

lorenfb wrote:But many early adopters, e.g. Leaf buyers, were naive when purchasing a product with a total reliance on a battery,
i.e. most who have owned a consumer product (laptop) for the last 25+ years with a battery should have been aware
of its inherent problem - battery degradation.


What you call naivety I call good faith expectations built on the foundation of official statements by Nissan spokespeople. For example.

Nissan Official Video: Nissan LEAF In Depth Battery Performance. Mar 6, 2012
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DShtvd5jJHQ
Robert Brown and Mark Perry of Nissan.
1:00 Mark Perry: The battery from a chemistry standpoint over a 10 year life you will have about 70-80% capacity left after 10 years.
1:57 Mark Perry: Some people are always worried about (and I understand the worry) that I’m going to have to replace their entire battery pack, the chances of that happening are almost zero.

Nissan Official Video – Nissan LEAF Tour Questions and Answers - Battery Replacement Feb 9, 2012
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-s4rX3saPUw
When will the Nissan LEAF battery need to be replaced? Juan E.
Spokesperson: The Battery will NOT have to be replaced after a couple of years, in fact the battery pack is meant to last at least 10 years or 100,000 miles, could be much longer depending on how you drive.

Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF. October 4th 2012.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1tfX7fRWPI
Anticipated Battery Life
1:03 Andy Palmer: After 5 years of normal usage you’d be at 80% state of health and at 10 years in you’d be at 70%. You can see it’s basically Non-Linear.


Battery Replacement Likelihood.
6:45 Andy Palmer: When we developed the motor car we couldn’t imagine a scenario where you replaced the battery.
7:09 Andy Palmer: At Nissan we are very confident in the technology, but there was a requirement from some customers to buy. In that instance seen from Tokyo in the development process the only reason you’d replace a battery is if something went wrong with the battery in which case Nissan would replace it under its 8 year warranty scheme. Period.
7:50 Andy Palmer: We never imagined there would be a customer, and apparently there is, that after 5 years they would want to bring their battery back up to state of health of 100%. And therefore buy a battery.
Page Break

Goodwill
9:15 Chelsea Sexton: How are you dealing with the goodwill issue? Is there going to be a broad goodwill remedy for owners?
9:26 Andy Palmer answers: So far the number of people dissatisfied is relatively small. We deal with complaints and we take complaints seriously. We deal with them on a customer by customer basis. The famous seven customers in Arizona we’ve basically dealt with those customers and in some cases have taken goodwill actions. We’ll continue to try and engage customer by customer.
10:17 Chelsea Sexton: I know you’ve been dealing with some customers on a case by case basis for the Phoenix issue, but is there going to be a broader remedy for those who still love their LEAF’s but are concerned that one day this issue will be their issue?
10:38 Andy Palmer answers: If you look around the world at the LEAF, LEAF has a 5 year warranty on the battery. Everywhere except the United States where we have an 8 year warranty. We did that in the United States not because we had to but because other hybrid vehicles have a mandated 8 years warranty so we decided to put a 8 year warranty. The assumption was that it was competitive in all ways.
Last edited by JPWhite on Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
--
JP White
http://jpwhitenissanleaf.com
Blue SL-e, Res 4/22/10, Ord 3/29/11, Del 7/30/11
110,000 Miles.
Lost 5 Capacity bars
7/18/13 (29,206), 8/25/14 (51,728), 7/12/15 (71.108), 5/12/16 (88,362), 10/17/16 (96,532)
New Battery 12/3/16 (98,956)

TedV
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Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:23 pm

Here's my question I've yet to find an answer regarding the still "proposed" Nissan battery purchase financing program: Is such a program now a reality after several years of Nissan just talking about it? If such a program does now exist, where can I find the relevant details? If it's still just talk and not a reality, as a new used Leaf owner I find that troubling. If I was a Nissan dealer trying to move used Leaf inventory, I'd find that extremely troubling. I hope someone can help me nail down an answer as I've been navigating this forum for awhile and haven't found any updated info about this program on my own. If it's here and I missed it, my bad. Muchly appreciated.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:46 pm

IF you mean the years-old proposal to "lease" batteries, that's dead. If you mean that Nissan is talking about offering financing for replacement packs, that's something I haven't read, but can't tell you doesn't exist.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

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JPWhite
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Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:12 pm

TedV wrote:Here's my question I've yet to find an answer regarding the still "proposed" Nissan battery purchase financing program: Is such a program now a reality after several years of Nissan just talking about it? If such a program does now exist, where can I find the relevant details? If it's still just talk and not a reality, as a new used Leaf owner I find that troubling. If I was a Nissan dealer trying to move used Leaf inventory, I'd find that extremely troubling. I hope someone can help me nail down an answer as I've been navigating this forum for awhile and haven't found any updated info about this program on my own. If it's here and I missed it, my bad. Muchly appreciated.


It is possible to finance the purchase of a new battery. I was offered that option but chose to buy outright.
--
JP White
http://jpwhitenissanleaf.com
Blue SL-e, Res 4/22/10, Ord 3/29/11, Del 7/30/11
110,000 Miles.
Lost 5 Capacity bars
7/18/13 (29,206), 8/25/14 (51,728), 7/12/15 (71.108), 5/12/16 (88,362), 10/17/16 (96,532)
New Battery 12/3/16 (98,956)

jlatl
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Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:35 am

Can I ask:

1. What did the battery replacement cost you ?
2. Assume this is the 2011 Leaf you have listed.
3. Was the replacement the 24KWH or was the newer 30KWH upgrade available?
2013 Leaf S

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JPWhite
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Re: Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:25 pm

jlatl wrote:Can I ask:

1. What did the battery replacement cost you ?
2. Assume this is the 2011 Leaf you have listed.
3. Was the replacement the 24KWH or was the newer 30KWH upgrade available?


Yes I have a 2011 and the only option is the 24 kWh battery. It does require some additional parts to make the newer 2013+ form factor fit the older LEAF's. The additional parts were approx $200.

If you are a member of TrueDelta you can search the repair histories for LEAF's and the price individuals paid for their batteries. It ranges from $1,200 to over $6,000. Clearly YMMV.
--
JP White
http://jpwhitenissanleaf.com
Blue SL-e, Res 4/22/10, Ord 3/29/11, Del 7/30/11
110,000 Miles.
Lost 5 Capacity bars
7/18/13 (29,206), 8/25/14 (51,728), 7/12/15 (71.108), 5/12/16 (88,362), 10/17/16 (96,532)
New Battery 12/3/16 (98,956)

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