Can I reliably make a 65-mile drive?

Hello! Newbie here. Just got my Leaf on Tuesday (the insurance company totaled my '05 Prius Monday night) and thus far I really adore it. However, my ability to keep the Leaf is dependent upon its ability to reliably make a 65-mile drive. It's a trip that I do probably 30-40 times a year. It's about 15 miles to get out of the city, and then 70 mph speed limits the rest of the way.

Made the drive for the first time yesterday, and it was a pretty spectacular failure. The dealer didn't mention that I needed a CharJit card to use public charging stations, so I was unable to use a quick-charger to bring it all the way up before I hit the road; I plugged it in with the trickle charger and got it up to about 75-80 miles showing on the dashboard before I left. I ended up stopping at a Nissan dealer for a 2-hr. juice break about 2/3 of the way there.

I noticed that the car really doesn't seem to want to go 70 mph. (It also REALLY doesn't like uphill acceleration ramps on the trip, either, which I suppose shouldn't surprise me.) I had it in Eco mode the whole way, and I tried to keep the chain-like power usage display within two dots of the neutral spot; any more and the estimated miles-to-empty just disappeared.

So, after all that, here's my question: Do you think I would have been able to make the trip were the car fully charged? Would altering my route to a road with a slower speed limit help? My family found the whole experience pretty disheartening and wants me to seriously consider exchanging the Leaf for something else.

yes, generally.
just dont go 70, unless it is for brief periods such as entering the freeway or avoiding a traffic situation.
get used to going 60-65 for that trip. be modest with acceleration.
you will have to experiment, as use of AC can have some modest impact as well as hills, which would be a bigger drag.
you are on your way, if you are keeping the bubbles to 2 during cruising and acceleration.

happy motoring.

yes, and get blink and chargepoint cards.
also, determine where chargers are along your route, just in case.
sometimes a half an hour will get you the distance you need to get home from one of those one-off trips.

There are variables, but yes it will make a 65 mile trip under just about any circumstances except continuous uphill. You may have to hold your speed down to between 65mph and 70mph to be safe. And for sure you don't want to exceed 70mph.

And take it out of ECO and try D before you complain about performance. It isn't going to affect range that much using one over the other.

the answer; yes....and no.

really all depends on where you live and what time of year you plan to make this trip

and is not "Leaf" its "LEAF"

Thank you all so much for the speedy responses! I'm going to drive back tomorrow with a full charge, and I hope to convince my family that we should keep this wonderful car.

mwalsh said:

And take it out of ECO and try D before you complain about performance. It isn't going to affect range that much using one over the other.

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I will definitely try that—it's such a joy to drive in D, but I thought I should put it in Eco for such a long drive.

dfriedla said:

Thank you all so much for the speedy responses! I'm going to drive back tomorrow with a full charge, and I hope to convince my family that we should keep this wonderful car.

mwalsh said:

And take it out of ECO and try D before you complain about performance. It isn't going to affect range that much using one over the other.

Click to expand...

I will definitely try that—it's such a joy to drive in D, but I thought I should put it in Eco for such a long drive.

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where do you live?
(not personal; just a general idea for climate, hills, etc.)

i live in an area that is not flat and it does have pretty steep areas but generally its a gentle up or down. driving 60 mph, in Summer i easily get 82-85 miles on a charge (not a good indicator of how far you can go) @ 4.2 miles/KW (recommended gauge to use if judging whether your "current" driving pace will allow you to complete your trip)

in winter the range drops to 68-74 miles depending on climate control usage. my winters see an average temp in the low 40's. this causes my pack to only store around 19 KW. in Summer with temps in the mid 70's to low 80's i store just over 21 KW which is the reason why posting your general location is critical if you want an accurate answer

Charge to 100%. This is a must.
Keep the max speed to 65. I generally set it to cruise at 65.
Drive in ECO on surface roads for better regen
Drive in D or ECO on highway as you wish. It shouldn't matter. Except that in D be aware that you could easily accelerate quickly with little effort, so maintaining at 65 or below becomes difficult and you will be at 75 before you realize.

I am guessing you will have one bar left when you reach your destination, which would technically give you another 6 miles at that speed or 10+ miles if you can reduce your speed to 45 or less.

Again if you are in AZ or TX where at 100F the AC does have a noticeable impact of atleast 10 miles with my personal experience. In that case this trip, still doable but cutting it close. The same holds good in winter months if you are in a cold place that sees subzero.

You still haven't said where you live. If it is an area where it is typically 95+ for several months a year like AZ or TX, battery degrades much faster. The range you get after going through a summer will be less than when it is new. But then no such problems have been reported from coastal CA and north west.

mkjayakumar said:

I am guessing you will have one bar left when you reach your destination, which would technically give you another 6 miles at that speed or 10+ miles if you can reduce your speed to 45 or less.
.

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i believe this omits the 10 or so miles left in the hidden bars.

While it's true ECO vs D won't make much difference if you keep your speed down, that's exactly what ECO helps you to do. As the OP noted, it REALLY doesn't like to go 70 in ECO - for good reason. The butter zone for freeway driving is 55 - 65. ECO mode puts a dip in the throttle response off the line to reduce jack rabbit starts and again at 60-65 to help keep you in that sweet spot. Personally, I always use ECO for longer trips as it reminds/forces me to be more conservative. Otherwise it is very easy to fly in this very zippy car.

To help understand why this matters, read the Wikipedia entry on drag - specifically the power section:

Note that the power needed to push an object through a fluid increases as the cube of the velocity. A car cruising on a highway at 50 mph (80 km/h) may require only 10 horsepower (7.5 kW) to overcome air drag, but that same car at 100 mph (160 km/h) requires 80 hp (60 kW). With a doubling of speed the drag (force) quadruples per the formula. Exerting four times the force over a fixed distance produces four times as much work. At twice the speed the work (resulting in displacement over a fixed distance) is done twice as fast. Since power is the rate of doing work, four times the work done in half the time requires eight times the power.

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Using this simple example a 24kW battery at 50mph (7.5kW/h) would net you 3.2 hours of travel time. At 50mph that's 160 miles. That same 24kW battery at 100mph (60kW/h) would net you 0.4 hours of travel. At 100mph that's a whopping 40 miles. Granted, there are other factors at play in the LEAF so these numbers aren't realistic, but you get the idea. Speed matters. Big time.

The same holds true for a gas car as well, but with a tank that's 4 times as big and easily refilled in 5 minutes you just don't notice as much.

dfriedla said:

Thank you all so much for the speedy responses! I'm going to drive back tomorrow with a full charge, and I hope to convince my family that we should keep this wonderful car.

mwalsh said:

And take it out of ECO and try D before you complain about performance. It isn't going to affect range that much using one over the other.

Click to expand...

I will definitely try that—it's such a joy to drive in D, but I thought I should put it in Eco for such a long drive.

Click to expand...

If you haven't already looked at and printed yourself a copy of Tony Williams' Range chart, be sure to do so: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Look at both the 100% and 85% capacity charts. You haven't said how many years you need to be able to make your 65 mile drive. Be aware that there will likely come a time when you can no longer do so due to the battery losing capacity with age, at least not in all conditions. That's why people are asking for a general idea of where you live, the terrain etc., because temperature and use of HVAC affects the range and the battery considerably, as do climbing and descending, winds, and so on.

Personally, I'd consider that trip very marginal if done on the freeway with a fairly-well loaded car for more than a few years, given the range reserve I insist on. Even with 100% of capacity, at 65 mph the chart only gives you 75 miles of range under IDEAL conditions, and as I insist on a 10% (minimum 10 mile) emergency reserve, I'd be running the car right up to the edge of my useful range when it was new, in conditions I'm unlikely to encounter at random. If this trip is primarily one you take with your family and has to be doable year-round without significant thought, IMO it's not worth the anxiety and hassle, and you might be better off with a PHEV like the Volt until BEV ranges improve. But you need to look at the chart and reach your own conclusions.

That all sounds very doable. I'm in Chicago; the drive takes me through Indiana and into Michigan, with more hills the closer I get to my destination.

Thanks, everyone!

GRA said:

If you haven't already looked at and printed yourself a copy of Tony Williams' Range chart, be sure to do so: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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That's a great resource—thank you!!

It's a 39-month lease; I make the trip just about every weekend in the summer and a couple of times each fall, winter and spring. I'm going to charge it up all the way tonight and give it a go tomorrow before I make any big decisions.

ETA: I only put 36k miles on my last car in the 7 years I had it, so I'm hoping I can stave off battery degradation for a while!

dfriedla said:

GRA said:

If you haven't already looked at and printed yourself a copy of Tony Williams' Range chart, be sure to do so: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Click to expand...

That's a great resource—thank you!!

It's a 39-month lease; I make the trip just about every weekend in the summer and a couple of times each fall, winter and spring. I'm going to charge it up all the way tonight and give it a go tomorrow before I make any big decisions.

ETA: I only put 36k miles on my last car in the 7 years I had it, so I'm hoping I can stave off battery degradation for a while!

Click to expand...

Be sure to ask your question on the Chicagoland topic as well,

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=357&hilit=chicagoland" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

as you're more likely to get a specific answer there. There was at least one LEAF owner (dutchinchicago) who had his for less than a month; IIRR after taking a trip with his family in winter (58 miles?) and discovering that he was forced to go without heat/defrost to make his destination and still was into Low battery warning (LBW) by the end, he bailed and replaced it with a Volt. More knowledge of the car would probably have eased his concerns and allowed him to make the trip with less anxiety, but he wasn't willing to make the adaptations necessary or worry about what might happen to his range in a few years.

Whatever you decide, good luck!

Edit: Went looking, dutchinchicago picked up his LEAF on Dec. 21st (pg. 49 of the topic) and reported that he'd exchanged it for a Volt on Jan. 24th (pg. 72). I mis-remembered several details, but got the gist correct. He describes his range experiences with the car in winter between those two pages.

dfriedla said:

That all sounds very doable. I'm in Chicago; the drive takes me through Indiana and into Michigan, with more hills the closer I get to my destination.

Thanks, everyone!

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dfriedla,
take GRA with a very large pile of "I told you so.'
He doesnt own a Leaf and thinks Nissan did a bad job.
he has been around here proving his point for about 6 weeks now.
some people have told him to go away -- I am one of them -- but he insists he is a valuable member of the community and the rest of us are just cheerleaders.
He is not 100% wrong, but he certainly puts one foot on the truth and stretches the other one out as far as possible to reach his point.

by the way, I have a Leaf for almost 15k, with 6 weeks off for a rear-ender.
i love the car and use it daily for a 50-mile commute.
I regularly make a 65-mile trip to a theater in hollywood where friends do plays.
it works out fine.
in a few years, that may be a stretch, but I dont now. there are chargers 10 miles out from my house, so i dont worry about it as I can get 10-12 miles of charge in 30 minutes or so.

regardless, I drive for what would be about 2 cents a mile in electricity, 5 times as cheap as my former 24 mpg ICE.
but I have solar, so I really drive for free.
I expect there could be a new battery in my future, way down the road.

dfriedla said:

That all sounds very doable. I'm in Chicago; the drive takes me through Indiana and into Michigan, with more hills the closer I get to my destination.

Thanks, everyone!

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ok, you are going to make it on all but the coldest of winter days. when temps get near zero, it will be a struggle for you, but you can make it by slowing down to 55 and bundle up, use heat sparingly. the heated seats/steering wheel goes a long way and best of all, use very little power.

here, we were still able to do our trip which is about 63 miles RT when temps were in the teens but had only like 5-6 miles to spare and that was minimal heat use as well

thankyouOB said:

dfriedla said:

That all sounds very doable. I'm in Chicago; the drive takes me through Indiana and into Michigan, with more hills the closer I get to my destination.

Thanks, everyone!

Click to expand...

dfriedla,
take GRA with a very large pile of "I told you so.'
He doesnt own a Leaf and thinks Nissan did a bad job.
he has been around here proving his point for about 6 weeks now.
some people have told him to go away -- I am one of them -- but he insists he is a valuable member of the community and the rest of us are just cheerleaders.
He is not 100% wrong, but he certainly puts one foot on the truth and stretches the other one out as far as possible to reach his point.

Click to expand...

Actually, the only area I've said Nissan did a bad job on is selling/leasing Leafs in Arizona and similar high-temp areas, not informing potential owners of accelerated battery degradation (which Nissan has been claiming is 'normal' up 'til owners went public) prior to purchase, denying for far too long that there was a problem despite the mounting evidence of owners compiled here, and in general treating what should be valued early adopter customers in a very shabby way. I have no problems with the car itself, although it doesn't meet my current needs and I wouldn't buy any BEV in a hot climate without an active thermal management system (or in a cold climate if range is likely to be an issue).

As to my 'insisting that I'm a valuable member of the community', I've never done anything of the kind. I leave it to others to decide whether the info I provide is valuable or not. I hold no brief or financial interest for any particular EV, just EVs in general. If I think something's crap I'll say so, just as I'd say it was terrific if I thought that. I have no skin in the game. I strive to provide as objective a viewpoint as I can on all sides of an issue, from outside the almost inevitable bias of LEAF and other EV owners - most people who've plunked down a substantial chunk of change on a car are unlikely to maintain full objectivity (assuming that's possible for anyone; I try to identify and acknowledge my own biases, but how do I know if I'm succeeding 100%)?

The 2013 Leaf with the new heat pump will be a better choice in winter. Less range issues with the heat on.

GRA said:

I try to identify and acknowledge my own biases, but how do I know if I'm succeeding 100%)?

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try saying in your signer:
I do not own a Leaf
or
I don't own a Leaf but I drove one once or twice for 30 miles. (if true)

and truth be told, you have been around here carping way before the AZ Leaf owners reached critical mass. but let's not nitpick, deal with the above, and I will give you credit.

dfriedla said:

That all sounds very doable. I'm in Chicago; the drive takes me through Indiana and into Michigan, with more hills the closer I get to my destination.

Thanks, everyone!

Click to expand...

cold weather, and snow or rain will affect range.
I get by without heat, but this is SoCal.
Of course, if your car is equipped with the new heated stuff, that may be significant in reducing cold weather as an issue.
I do think driving through rain affects range.
you should talk to Chicago Leafers, as suggested.