Are there really that many haters?

One of the odd things I've noticed over the last year is that anytime a major news outlet runs a story that is related to EVs of any kind, the comments section is just filled with negative comments. You've all heard them, "My hummer is cleaner than your coal-powered Leaf" or "What a useless vehicle, nobody will ever buy these." I don't think I need to list all of it, you get the point. It seems worse on FoxNews, but even on more liberal news sites such as CNN or MSNBC the same is true. In fact, I have taken it upon myself to count the messages and determine a percentage of positive vs. negative. It appears that somewhere around 70% or more of the comments are negative. On FoxNews it can sometimes be close to 100%.

Okay.. I'm familiar with controversial topics. For example, I have a Texas concealed carry permit and I carry a gun everywhere I go (yes, in my Leaf for that matter). I always try to encourage people who qualify (IE: have no criminal record) to get licensed. End even though Texas is a gun-friendly state, I do encounter people in real life on a regular basis that have different beliefs on that. These are real-life people, not just on the internet.

Okay.. Here's the strange part. I live in a very right-leaning state and in person I have only encountered a total of 1 person who was against EV's. And I think he had the IQ of a doorknob and also was a prime candidate for wearing a tinfoil hat. Otherwise, 99.9% of the people I encounter every day in real life are fascinated by my Leaf and ask lots of questions. Sure, many people say that the vehicle wouldn't work for them because they drive a bazillion miles every day. But just because it doesn't work for them doesn't mean they are against the technology. In fact, most of those people are saddened that the vehicle won't work for their commute.

So explain to me why it is that in real life I don't encounter the EV haters despite living in very right-leaning area filled with large pickups and Hummers, yet on the internet it appears the haters outnumber everyone else? I don't want to be a conspiracy nut wearing a tin-foil hat myself, but I have to wonder if somebody who stands to lose from EV adoption is spewing anti-EV propaganda. Have the moderators of the news sites been paid off by somebody to only approve messages that are mostly anti-EV? Or is somebody paying a group of people to go trolling around the internet with 500 different aliases and post anti-EV comments on websites?

just look at the elections.....

Democrats are free thinkers, that's why they fail at organization.

Repuglicans are indoctrination freaks, live the same, pray the same,
deny science the same. They buy into the little distractions that
their masters conjure up and have for decades.

I have always assumed that the people who comment on news stories are incompetent, drunk, or both. :mrgreen:

This is interesting, I live in Washington state which is a very liberal state by comparison to Texas. Like you, I own and enjoy firearms but don't have a cc permit only because I don't feel the need for it in my life right now. Sadly I have to say that I have encountered a fair amount of "EVs haters" over the past few years that I've been interested in them. Some of them being close friends.

I think my situation might be a little out-of-the-norm in that most of the social circles I run in are primarily based around automotive enthusiasts. I think that there are prejudices about EVs that have spread and run deep within the car enthusiasts cultures. It's hard for some people to let go of them. I feel that there are some of them that feel threatened, in some illogical way, that it will take their hobby/interest/lifestyle away from them and that adds to their anti-EV sentiments.

At risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorists; I think that there are a lot of long standing business that stand to loose out substantially w/ the proliferation of EV's (i.e.: those that specifically cater to the upkeep of ICEs). They more than anyone would benefit to sway public interests away from EVs.

adric22 said:

Or is somebody paying a group of people to go trolling around the internet with 500 different aliases and post anti-EV comments on websites?

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While I am generally not big on conspiracy theories, I wouldn't be all that surprised if your suspicion turns out to be well founded. In response to some articles, the volume of anti-EV comments is quite astounding. Like you, I live in a right-leaning area, and have encountered no shortage of open-mindedness toward the LEAF. Something indeed smells fishy to me.

Haters are drawn to the light? Enough find it easy and fun to be negative.

The so called "haters" that I've encountered are either driving trucks, BMWs or "look at me cars" but for the most part people been positive and curious about Leaf.

Ecotality recently had a local electrician come out to evaluate my home for the free charger. When the electrical company's estimator was at my home I mentioned that even though I will end up having to pay additional for the charger (because of my situation/setup) it is still worth it to me because of the government subsidy ($1,200). He replied with, "Obama keeps handing out money and puts us into more and more debt."

I bit my tongue because after all, he would be responsible for providing me an estimate... but I knew which side of the issue he stood on.

Try reading this thread:
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/672-Ken-Kent-Kerry-Beauchrt-Beuchert-Beuchrt-Biker-Rider-Krider
:roll:

adric22 said:

...I don't want to be a conspiracy nut wearing a tin-foil hat myself, but I have to wonder if somebody who stands to lose from EV adoption is spewing anti-EV propaganda. Have the moderators of the news sites been paid off by somebody to only approve messages that are mostly anti-EV? Or is somebody paying a group of people to go trolling around the internet with 500 different aliases and post anti-EV comments on websites?

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Drivesolo said:

...
At risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorists; I think that there are a lot of long standing business that stand to loose out substantially w/ the proliferation of EV's (i.e.: those that specifically cater to the upkeep of ICEs). They more than anyone would benefit to sway public interests away from EVs.

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It is very tempting to think that there is some kind of well organized, politically driven, crony capitalist network that is even possibly paid to stoke the anti-EV, FUD flames and protect the status quo. What's that old saying: "If you're not paranoid, your not paying attention". I don't know how else to explain why there is such strong emotion against something most people know little to nothing about. It's certainly not all organized though. There is a group of very hard headed folks in this country who lend themselves very well to the job without much encouragement, they label anything pro-environment, conservation oriented as a liberal/communistic threat to their freedom and categorically dismiss it's validity while continuing to shoot themselves in the foot. These folks stick so strongly to principle that they often end up empowering the very same forces that have emptied their 401K, fleeced them of their home and in some cases, left them with no retirement, living in an apartment at 65 and a 300K loan left over from the housing scam and zero equity. If liberals had half the spine, just think what could be accomplished!

As with racism, sexism and Big Tobacco, it's only a matter of time before the truth about EV's pervades even in the most backward sections of our country, even with Big Oil buying out DC.

g

I guess I better sell the Bimmer...

IBELEAF said:

The so called "haters" that I've encountered are either driving trucks, BMWs or "look at me cars" but for the most part people been positive and curious about Leaf.

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EricBayArea said:

He replied with, "Obama keeps handing out money and puts us into more and more debt."

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And he was correct. If markets weren't so distorted by government intervention you'd probably have a lot more money and you could afford to buy your own damn car charger.

LTLFTcomposite said:

EricBayArea said:

He replied with, "Obama keeps handing out money and puts us into more and more debt."

Click to expand...

And he was correct. If markets weren't so distorted by government intervention you'd probably have a lot more money and you could afford to buy your own damn car charger.

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While I won't debate the politics of this, I will point out that it was Bush that enacted these credits if I'm not mistaken.

adric22 said:

LTLFTcomposite said:

EricBayArea said:

He replied with, "Obama keeps handing out money and puts us into more and more debt."

Click to expand...

And he was correct. If markets weren't so distorted by government intervention you'd probably have a lot more money and you could afford to buy your own damn car charger.

Click to expand...

While I won't debate the politics of this, I will point out that it was Bush that enacted these credits if I'm not mistaken.

Click to expand...

But Bush is no longer a "good" Republican. They all conveniently have
amnesia. It's all Obama's fault you know. The new "born again" GOP
is terribly budget conscious. Haven't you heard?

Taker a surplus, turn it into a huge debt and when the black guy spends
like crazy to pull us out of a tailspin.... blame it all on him. After all...
it's god's will and blah, blah, blah......

To follow-up on the electrician's comment...

The first thing that came to my mind was the large amounts of subsidies that are currently in place for other markets such as oil and how the EV subsidies pale in comparison to what is currently out there. The US has always had a large hand in promoting innovation and attempting to level the playing field to spark new technology. Very similar to what a lot of gas and electric companies do behind the scenes. The question is, once interest has caught and prices have dropped to be able to compete on their own, will those subsidies go away... I just feel that looking at an issue with blinders on, not taking other factors into consideration, is what I do not agree with.

mogur said:

I guess I better sell the Bimmer...

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nah, the stereotype that bimmer owners created can't compete with "minor electric hatred".

adric22 said:

LTLFTcomposite said:

EricBayArea said:

He replied with, "Obama keeps handing out money and puts us into more and more debt."

Click to expand...

And he was correct. If markets weren't so distorted by government intervention you'd probably have a lot more money and you could afford to buy your own damn car charger.

Click to expand...

While I won't debate the politics of this, I will point out that it was Bush that enacted these credits if I'm not mistaken.

Click to expand...

Bush was bad and Obama is worse. The further we stray from the constitution the worse things get, but nobody can figure out why.

mogur said:

I guess I better sell the Bimmer...

IBELEAF said:

The so called "haters" that I've encountered are either driving trucks, BMWs or "look at me cars" but for the most part people been positive and curious about Leaf.

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I thought BMW was EV????? The EV Rolls Royce project, the Mini EV, and the upcoming i3.

But, I sold my two BMW's. Too much stuff in the garage.

TennLeafer said:

I have always assumed that the people who comment on news stories are incompetent, drunk, or both. :mrgreen:

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If you don't mind approaching it from a gamer's viewpoint, there's a Penny Arcade strip which encapsulates the general principle behind this observation.

EricBayArea said:

He replied with, "Obama keeps handing out money and puts us into more and more debt."
I bit my tongue because after all, he would be responsible for providing me an estimate... but I knew which side of the issue he stood on.

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You should have told him that the money was paying him to come out and install your EVSE - and at above market labor rates, too! He should be thanking Obama! (never mind the fact that Bush put this program in place as adric22 mentioned). Perhaps he'd rather be out of a job?

LTLFTcomposite said:

And he was correct. If markets weren't so distorted by government intervention you'd probably have a lot more money and you could afford to buy your own damn car charger.

Click to expand...

Lots of hand waving here, but no real solutions. The constitution isn't going to get us out of this mess. And neither is the "free" market. We saw what happened when the banks were allowed to distort the markets. And they largely got away with it with barely a slap on the wrist. Mean while many in congress are fighting to remove all the checks and balances that did make it through. And why? So we can repeat 2008 all over again?