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^^
As I said, you are a dim-witted troll.
Tesla has about 450 Million in reservation money related to the Model 3.

Find it in the Tesla financial statement.

And just for giggles, calculate for us the implied annual default risk for Tesla based on the going bond rate.
 
SageBrush said:
No, moron. The reservation money is not part of the Tesla general finances. It is not an unsecured bond at the bottom of the creditor ladder. It sits in an interest bearing account and is not subject to creditor demands, or in fact used for Tesla operations.


https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/how-safe-is-the-deposit.93068/https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/how-safe-is-the-deposit.93068/

https://www.quora.com/Would-the-1000-deposit-on-a-Model-3-be-refunded-if-Tesla-claimed-bankruptcy


Deposits are unsecured debts near the bottom.
 
WetEV said:
SageBrush said:
No, moron. The reservation money is not part of the Tesla general finances. It is not an unsecured bond at the bottom of the creditor ladder. It sits in an interest bearing account and is not subject to creditor demands, or in fact used for Tesla operations.

https://www.quora.com/Would-the-1000-deposit-on-a-Model-3-be-refunded-if-Tesla-claimed-bankruptcy


Deposits are unsecured debts near the bottom.
It is not a deposit in the legal sense mentioned in your Quora thread.

Read the financial statement.

You and Ed can continue your trolling without me. And as that same Quora thread answered, worrying about BK in a company with a stock price of ~ $300 is idiotic even if the reservation money was at risk from creditors .... which it is not.
 
The fact is TSLA does not report model 3 deposits discretely, only as aggregated with all other customer deposits, and it reports these insecure funds as just another component of cash-on-hand.

For a recent summary of the role of customer deposits in TSLA's dwindling cash position, read:

Tesla Motors: Slowly, Then Quickly

...An increasing percentage of Tesla’s cash is money received as deposits from future customers:

(see chart at link, showing almost one billion $ of customer deposits, out of close to 2.7 Billion $ total cash on hand, Q1 2018)

Theoretically, these amounts are owed to customers should they not receive the products they paid for. In a bankruptcy, these deposit holders would likely be out of luck due to the high level of secured debt that will supercede their claims. Tesla’s reluctance to provide clarity on the make up of these deposits, either by model or by status of the reservation, as well as a lot of anecdotal evidence of lengthy refund times going back to the Model 3 launch in 2017, show Tesla to view these deposits as a source of short-term financing rather than claims on future production...
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4172199-tesla-motors-slowly-quickly?page=3

... The liquidity situation for Tesla seems to be very tight now with only $1.8B in cash in its domestic coffers, which is not even enough to even cover its current outstanding trade payables, let alone current debt or its CapEx commitments. The draconian operating steps being taken by Tesla are a strong indicators a cash crunch is hitting the company. Musk’s increasing bizarre Twitter behavior seems to a symptom of the stress this type of situation could create.

This liquidity crunch has not happened over-night but rather slowly as Tesla funded operating losses with capital that was supposed to be earmarked for newer growth programs. The company has continually failed to meet its operating goals despite being given a lot of runway to improve. Unfortunately, there is a finite time that investors and markets will permit these losses to occur. I believe this time is coming to a close...
.
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4172199-tesla-motors-slowly-quickly?page=6
 
RegGuheert said:
Bloomberg's tracker is indicating production of the Model 3 is going the wrong way.. It is indicating production has dropped to 1533/week and it predicts production will drop to about 900 units/week by the end of the month.

Bloomberg_Tesla_Model3_Production_Tracker20180507.png


Methinks the curve-fitting algorithm in this tracker makes some "interesting" projections!
It's amazing the difference six days can make. Now they are projecting 4000 vehicles per week instead of 900:

Bloomberg_Tesla_Model3_Production_Tracker20180513.png
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
I for one certainly don't fault them for focussing on the higher margin heavily optioned models. This is a critical time for their financial survival when they need to prioritize bringing in as much money as the traffic will bear over the egalitarian dream of affordable EVs for all.

the egalitarian dream is somewhat mis-directed too. Tesla had always said they would sell the higher trims first, before the lower ones. The people complaining either hadn't paid attention or are trying to foment dissent amongst the less informed.

Having had to wait 5 weeks just to get a VIN, I can honestly tell you that waiting to configure your car isn't as painful as waiting for the VIN to arrive! But after you get the car, the wait proves to be well worth it.
 
The thread once-again seems to be degenerating into ad hominem name calling. I've reported the relevant posts and encourage others to do so if they find them offensive. Maintaining civility in public really isn't that hard, whatever you may happen to think of the person in private.
 
palmermd said:
Nubo said:
LTLFTcomposite said:
I for one certainly don't fault them for focussing on the higher margin heavily optioned models. This is a critical time for their financial survival when they need to prioritize bringing in as much money as the traffic will bear over the egalitarian dream of affordable EVs for all.

The story changes when you've got somebody else's money in your hands for a "reservation". When I have a reservation I expect to be served in turn. That isn't "egalitarian"; it's simple common decency which isn't something to discard during critical times.

They have had my money since before the reveal as I was an in store reservation, and this is what I fully expected for delivery. It is how they rolled out the Model S, even if you had an early reservation, its how they rolled out the X, even if you had an early reservation. And while they could have been clearer about this, it is how they planned to roll out the 3. I'm happy to just wait for the standard range pack so Tesla can work out their production issues and sell more profitable cars until they get it figured out. In the end, I'll get a better car. Am I happy about the wait....not really; I wish they could have figured out the production quicker so that I'd be getting my car by now, but I cant control i,t so I cant worry about it.

If you want to get angry about Tesla car deliveries, the Roadster is the one that really got screwed up. People put down a reservation for a car, and they deposited more than I'm planning to spend on the entire Model 3, and then just before deliveries they raised the prices by $5,000-$10,000. That would, and did, really piss people off. https://www.wired.com/2009/01/tesla-raises-pr/

We'll get our cars. Don't get pulled into the hype, just be patient.

I'm not worried about the hype, it's just a matter of treating people properly. That they did this before doesn't make it right; though I do agree that anyone placing a M3 reservation should have done enough homework to realize how Tesla does business. I certainly learned my lesson with Model X reservation. I'm glad you are in a position to wait and I hope it works out for you. But I think Tesla should have made full disclosure up-front.
 
WetEV said:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/how-safe-is-the-deposit.93068/https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/how-safe-is-the-deposit.93068/

https://www.quora.com/Would-the-1000-deposit-on-a-Model-3-be-refunded-if-Tesla-claimed-bankruptcy


Deposits are unsecured debts near the bottom.
The 1st link is busted.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/how-safe-is-the-deposit.93068/ is a working one.
 
OT for the M3 thread but I don't share Mr Sagebrush's confidence that deposit $$ is secure because it's in some sort of escrow. As for the share price being some indication of health I think there are examples from history of darling companies going south very quickly, particularly when momentum runs the other way. Mind you I'm not here predicting catastrophe, but just because Mr Edatoakrun is a bear doesn't mean he's wrong about everything.
If they do go for another capital raise this year I'll be really concerned. That thing about offering up the factory as security was a bit disconcerting.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
Mind you I'm not here predicting catastrophe, but just because Mr Edatoakrun is a bear doesn't mean he's wrong about everything.

I'm not expecting catastrophe as well, but T esla is still not past the M odel 3 bet the company event. Need to get production up and stable.
 
Well I received an Email to configure my car. I really do not want the long range option. The email said to reply for help. I have tried two times and the email comes back rejected with a too full mailbox error. I give up, I am not spending 57K on a car that was announced as a 35K car.
 
WetEV said:
LTLFTcomposite said:
Mind you I'm not here predicting catastrophe....
I'm not expecting catastrophe as well...
While predictions and expectations RE TSLA may be interesting diversions, if you are considering either a providing TSLA with your money as an investment or a deposit, consider instead using TSLA's established performance as your guide.

No manufacturer prior to TSLA has ever lost so much money delivering so few vehicles, after missing so many production schedules.

But you now are predicting, expecting, or just hoping... that next time it'll be different?
 
Of course it can be different, the situation is unlike any other I can think of, including the surrounding cast of players that haven't even come onto the stage yet.
Speaking of deposits though (sorry further OT if anyone cares) what happened to people who put down money for an Elio?
 
I haven't even put in my $1K deposit, intentionally. As I've publicly stated in numerous places, possibly even here, I'm waiting to see how real customer cars hold up in terms of reliability once they've been in their hands for 6-12 months. Even that might be premature.

So far, the signs aren't looking good in that department, which isn't surprising to me at all.
GlennD said:
I really do not want the long range option.
...
I am not spending 57K on a car that was announced as a 35K car.
Ditto. I also wouldn't want the glass roof nor would I want to pay for AWD and performance options.
 
evnow said:
After waiting for several years - and coming close to buying one multiple times - finally got my Tesla yesterday.

I had to buy LR, instead of SR I had planned - mainly because the WA sales tax exemption, worth $3k, is expiring this month. Ofcourse it is not clear whether SR will be available by the time the full federal tax credit ends.

Tesla is delivering a lot of cars in WA because of sales tax exemption ending. There were 6 cars being delivered at the same time. We had a group orientation. It was all quite well planned - the cars were very good cosmetically. We were all out within an hour compared to over 3 hours it takes me to get a car with other dealers.

Good deal!!

The Tesla model "should" be much quicker mostly because the time consuming part (financing, negotiation, etc) is already done before you arrive. The only part left is customer check out which takes about the same amount of time at other dealers. I did a 15 min checkout at Oly Nissan simply because the 2013 wasn't different enough from my 2011
 
If anything I'd be more concerned for Tesla's propects if they did start producing stripper M3s. The current takeaway is that there's no shortage of buyers in the $45-60k slice of the adoption pyramid.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
I for one certainly don't fault them for focussing on the higher margin heavily optioned models. This is a critical time for their financial survival when they need to prioritize bringing in as much money as the traffic will bear over the egalitarian dream of affordable EVs for all.

Have you and others forgotten the video posted by Reg, and believed by some, that indicated that Tesla really doesn't need to be profitable
short term or even long term? If that were true, why the delay in delivering the $35K M3? Many also indicated that Tesla is really profitable
now, so why the contradictions?
 
I do remember that video. I also remember thinking that to attract the needed investment to sustain ongoing losses indefinitely they would need to present themselves as an ever growing upside opportunity. It's possible I suppose, but at some point you begin to question whether the trees can grow to the sky.
 
lorenfb said:
Many also indicated that Tesla is really profitable now, so why the contradictions?

T esla is spending more than they are receiving, so they are not profitable. Some parts of T esla are profitable, which is a different issue.
 
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