2013 Leaf - Dead 12-Volt Battery every 2 Weeks

[TimLee]

This too has happened to my 2011 LEAF just about a month ago. The Pilot Signal from the EVSE seems to require the 12 volt Battery to Send the Pilot Signal back to the EVSE Dock. After I disconnect the 12 volt battery and then Metered it. It was as 10 volts. I then recharged the Battery, reset the Car and got it to fire up again...

_________________
2011 Nissan LEAF Silver SL w/ QC port.
Reserved 5/5/11
RAQ 5/6/11 Accepted, Confirmed
5/5/11 AeroVironment Charge Dock ordered "Cash and Carry"
5/10/11 AV EVSE Installed
Delivery 6/15/11
http://www.DepotEco.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I noted you are getting close to the end of the 3 yr/36,000 mile warranty.
The 12V battery is covered for 100% no cost replacement under that warranty if capacity has dropped below a certain point.
Mine was replaced at the two year mark.
Everyone should have the dealer check 12V capacity before the warranty runs out.
My dealer always does this on all vehicles, but not all do.

But thew you stated in another thread that you're 300 miles from nearest dealer now. Taking it to the dealer is a lengthy challenge!

 

[TomT]

My warranty ran out on miles long ago but when I had the annual battery check done last month at three years, the 12 volt battery test showed that it was still in great shape...
Hopefully it will make it to the end of my four year lease intact.

Everyone should have the dealer check 12V capacity before the warranty runs out.

 

[Nubo]

Just thinking out loud. Is there a way to tap in to the incoming level 1 / level 2 power at 120vac? I ask because I was thinking of throwing a water proof 800mA battery tender jr under the hood and just leave it connected. Then when the car is plugged in it would just charge the 12v battery without me popping the hood and connecting an external charger. I think once a week topping off the 12v will work out, but it would be nice if it wasn't something I would have to mess with.

Line power is not present at the plug except when actively charging. It's really one of the main purposes of the EVSE to make sure that's the case. And when you're charging, the DC/DC converter is already running to keep the 12V battery charged.

 

[DarkStar]

I'm seriously considering getting this for my leaf (as well as another SLA I have that has seen very little use): Battery Desulfator

I would use it with the battery disconnected from the leaf and a small trickle charger also attached. DON'T use this with the battery still attached to the leaf! The key to de-sulfation is pulses tuned to the resonance of the sulfate crystals to break them apart. An elevated charge voltage works too, but is less effective and causes unnecessary heating and hydrogen generation.

Also for those with the little caps on the battery (I think '11-'12s only): CHECK YOUR WATER LEVEL!!! (I'm sure Reg has already done so )

This is a great desulfator, however it's perfectly save to use while the battery is connected to your Leaf (it's designed to be used in-line with a battery in service so it desulfates while driving). A better choice would be to go with a BatteryMINDer. These not only trickle-charge your battery, but desulfate at the same time.

It should be noted that it takes about 3-4 weeks of constant desulfating to see any improvement in battery capacity, so something like the Wizbang Battery Desulfator would be a better choice while leaving the battery in the car. I've been desulfating an old UPS battery (17ah) for about 4 weeks (using a hand-built unit) and I'm just finally starting to see some improvements (up to 15ah from 12ah).

 

[BrockWI]

Line power is not present at the plug except when actively charging. It's really one of the main purposes of the EVSE to make sure that's the case. And when you're charging, the DC/DC converter is already running to keep the 12V battery charged.

Thanks, I understand that the only time you would have 120 available is when the car is actively charging. The odd thing is I have measured the 12v aux battery and while the evse was on and the car charging the traction battery I only had 12.8v on the aux battery so this would give it a little "push". I might have to go with a larger charger since it would only be on for that amount of time, maybe a 1.25 ah charger.

The question is, is there a place to tap in to the 120vac, like say a fuse block or junction somewhere we can access relatively easy. Or is that side all sealed up tight. I could just add a secondary 120vac input like this one

http://www.amazon.com/Marinco-150BBI-On-Board-Charger-125-Volt/dp/B000NI38MG/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1398354816&sr=1-1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But thought as long as there is already power coming in why not use it. I have a power inlet on our vw TDI diesel that runs the coolant heater (800w) and a small 12v charger for the starting battery.

 

[Nubo]

***

 

[RegGuheert]

The odd thing is I have measured the 12v aux battery and while the evse was on and the car charging the traction battery I only had 12.8v on the aux battery so this would give it a little "push".

As Nubo said, it will "keep the 12V battery charged" but it doesn't charge it (except very briefly at the beginning of the session). I measure 13.1V on my LEAF during charging.

I might have to go with a larger charger since it would only be on for that amount of time, maybe a 1.25 ah charger.

1.25A is not enough. If the load on the 12V battery is more than your charger puts out, then it will simple regulate at 13.1V. I have had a 1.5A charger on the 12V battery during a charging session and the voltage stayed at 13.1V even though my charger would normally go to 14.7V.

 

[BrockWI]

Right, I have been connecting the 12v battery to a 1.25 amp battery tender
http://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender-021-0128-Plus-Charger/dp/B00068XCQU/ref=sr_1_2?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1398362453&sr=1-2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The first time I did it, it took about 5 hours. Now I am doing this about every three days and it only takes about 60 minutes. So my thought was this is about the same amount of time my evse is on so that should top off the 12v battery.

I have been charging the 12v battery when the evse is not on and I do wonder if I tried charging the 12v battery while the main pack was charging if that would confuse things or not since the 12v battery could be at 14v. The way I am doing it now they don't overlap and I can stick with that for now.

I do agree that there is some deficit charging (more power out of the battery than going in over time) happening with the Leaf's 12v battery and I am trying to stay ahead of it.

 

[RegGuheert]

I do agree that there is some deficit charging (more power out of the battery than going in over time) happening with the Leaf's 12v battery and I am trying to stay ahead of it.

That seems to be the real issue here. Unfortunately, it appears Nissan is not alone in this approach. I expect to see a large volume of failed batteries from newer cars (>MY2011) in the near future.

 

[QueenBee]

Right, I have been connecting the 12v battery to a 1.25 amp battery tender
http://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender-021-0128-Plus-Charger/dp/B00068XCQU/ref=sr_1_2?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1398362453&sr=1-2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The first time I did it, it took about 5 hours. Now I am doing this about every three days and it only takes about 60 minutes. So my thought was this is about the same amount of time my evse is on so that should top off the 12v battery.

I have been charging the 12v battery when the evse is not on and I do wonder if I tried charging the 12v battery while the main pack was charging if that would confuse things or not since the 12v battery could be at 14v. The way I am doing it now they don't overlap and I can stick with that for now.

I do agree that there is some deficit charging (more power out of the battery than going in over time) happening with the Leaf's 12v battery and I am trying to stay ahead of it.

If you do that while the car is on your charger will provide 100% of the power it can and then the car will provide the rest and the voltage will be what the car is aiming for so you wil not actually be adding anything to the battery. For it to actually charge more than the car wants you wod need a charger that can provide more than 100% of the load while charging. Maybe something in the 20+ amp range.

Just a good reminder to never connect anything to the negative terminal on the battery.

 

[QueenBee]

This to has happened to my 2011 LEAF just about a month ago. The Pilot Signal from the EVSE seems to require the 12 volt Battery to Send the Pilot Signal back to the EVSE Dock. After I disconnect the 12 volt battery and then Metered it. It was as 10 volts. I then recharged the Battery, reset the Car and got it to fire up again.. But while it was dead I did some testing and Discovered that the EVESE Dock was Drawing about 2 amps off the 12 volt battery. The car had sat long enough for the EVSE to run the Battery down .. I thought the LEAF did a Vacation Draw down and Recharge with Traction Pack and the 12 volt battery. I have left my LEAF for longer in the past with no issue.

But for some reason this time the EVSE dock did Discharge my 12 volt Battery. I think We had some power surges in some storms that caused the Power to go out and then come back on.. Some how this confused the ECU and the Car did not reset itself .. So the EVSE kept Drawing the Pilot Signal from the 12 volt Battery.

Now when I leave it for longer than a Week I Unplug it from the EVSE Dock..

The EVSE does not get power from the car and the EVSE would not be drawing 24 watts even if it did. This draw was from the onboard computers, etc. Leaving the EVSE plugged in seems to keep the computers in a higher state if awareness and the 12 volt battery does not seem to properly get recharged so leaving it on the EVSE can cause the 12 volt battery to go dead.

 

[alcalira]

Our 2012 LEAF has had no 12 volt issues in 15,000 miles. Our 2013 LEAF had its 12 volt battery replaced at 7500 miles and now, at 10,000 miles, it went dead twice and is at the dealer for diagnosis/repair. Is it possible for the replacement battery to have been a dud? The dealer said the factory battery was a dud.

I'm seeing lots of interesting discussion and theorizing on this forum by lots of folks who are way smarter than I am, but has anyone actually figured out what's wrong and come up with a solution? And I don't want to hear I have to attach a battery tender every time I leave the car overnight. I should be able to leave the car for weeks and have it still start!

Thanks, everyone.

 

[Stanton]

I'm seeing lots of interesting discussion and theorizing on this forum by lots of folks who are way smarter than I am, but has anyone actually figured out what's wrong and come up with a solution? And I don't want to hear I have to attach a battery tender every time I leave the car overnight. I should be able to leave the car for weeks and have it still start!

The best way to eliminate your 12v lead acid problems is to get rid of it! I replaced mine with a Lithium equivalent and have had ZERO problems since. See my blog post for details at http://stanton.myevblog.com/2012/01/16/getting-the-lead-out/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[alcalira]

The 12 volt lithium battery sounds like a great solution, but $841??? If Nissan would pay for it, fine. They should be able to get this car to keep its 12 volt lead acid battery charged up.

 

[RegGuheert]

...but has anyone actually figured out what's wrong and come up with a solution?

We've figured out what is wrong with the 2011/2012s, but Nissan controls the charging algorithms programmed into the vehicle's firmware. It's up to them to provide the solution. It does sound like the 2013s may be worse or there are problems with the battery supplier.

And I don't want to hear I have to attach a battery tender every time I leave the car overnight.

Me neither. It's ridiculous that they cannot program the car to make the 12V battery last for a very long time, particularly considering that it doesn't ever need to start an ICE. Perhaps this was done as an allowance to the dealers with provide them with more maintenance dollars for the LEAF. (I know, likely not, but it's all a bit frustrating...)

I should be able to leave the car for weeks and have it still start!

Agreed!

 

[alcalira]

UIpdate: Dealer couldn't find anything wrong, 12 volt battery tests OK, said there was a stored code showing low voltage with ignition on, so concluding that it was a "double-push" situation. I doubt that, but whatever. Yesterday I bought one of those portable jump-start units at Target (750 CCA!!!), showed my wife how to use it, and put it in the trunk. That way, if it dies again, at least she won't be stranded and won't be at the mercy of strangers when she needs a jump.

Fortunately it is very easy to start a LEAF with a dead 12-volt ( I suspect you could do it with a few D-cells) so jump-starting it is no big deal.

 

[esbreidenbach]

Hi,

This has happened to our 2011 leaf twice in three years. Just looking to see if anyone knows the cause. Today's experience was unique:

My wife started the car just fine, and drove 6 miles to work.
When she got out and tried to use the remote to lock the car, no response. She opened the door manually and tried to start, no go.
The FOB was working fine once we jump started the car.

Is it possible the 12V battery was being drained while she was driving it?

 

[slinkyuk]

I've experienced dead 12v 2 times now since Oct 2013.

The first time I put down to not fully inserting the charge connector, thinking this would keep the car circuits 'alive' waiting for charge but not able to start but the second time this was not the case.
The second time there was still some juice in the battery but not enough to activate the DC-DC converter. On this occasion the display kept flicking on and off then stated no key detected. Leafspy showed a BCM Low Voltage, Brake Mod Pwr Supply, Motor control 14v supply & Drive Motor A inverter issue which I presume are all just a result of not having the current required to power up.

Just to list my working practices:-
I charge mainly at home at night
I use the charge timer set to charge to 80% daily from 5-8am (off-peak time).
I have the system charge setting set to 100% to allow more charge to be obtained when long distances from home and use the timer override button when using public chargers (but I dont see this as relevant to the dead battery)
When I return home around 6-8pm I will plug in the charge lead
This works fine on most occasions and the charge kicks in at 5am and I have a 78-80% charge when I start the car at 8am.
Only conclusion from the dealer was that the DC-DC charger doesnt work when main battery below 20% but since this seems no relevance since the 2 occasions batt was both below and over 20%
No explanation as to what caused the flat batt but i'm keeping a booster pack with me just in case!

 

[LeftieBiker]

The car doesn't charge very fast when plugged in and off, and charging at L-2 shortens the time it's charging by a lot over L-1. At the same time, you are leaving it plugged in for 14-16 hours, if I read your post correctly. This is draining more charge from the accessory battery than is being put back while the car is charging. It sucks that Nissan messed up the charging algorithms, but until they come up with a fix you need to install a hardwired connection for a 2 amp or better battery maintainer, and plug that in when you plug in the EVSE at night. You probably won't need to do it every night once the battery is fully charged, but at least twice a week would be advisable.

 

[RegGuheert]

Also, I have previously measured the battery voltage in our LEAF and noted that it did not drop to such low voltages even after several days of sitting:

Yesterday afternoon I did a desulfation charge at ~15.6V for a couple of hours. This morning, the battery is at 12.7V. I am going to do another charge at that level now.

O.K. I've done this high-voltage charge for about eight more 3-hour sessions since that post and I don't think I have much to show for my efforts. The LEAF's 12V battery was last charged about 3 days ago and it was driven less than two days ago. Since then, it has sat (with the ELM327 removed) and it is now at 12.17V. This corresponds to a SOC of about 55% and is well below what I had measured previously after three WEEKS.

As such, I am seriously considering getting one of the Battery Minders that was recommended by DarkStar:

This is a great desulfator, however it's perfectly save to use while the battery is connected to your Leaf (it's designed to be used in-line with a battery in service so it desulfates while driving). A better choice would be to go with a BatteryMINDer. These not only trickle-charge your battery, but desulfate at the same time.

It should be noted that it takes about 3-4 weeks of constant desulfating to see any improvement in battery capacity, so something like the Wizbang Battery Desulfator would be a better choice while leaving the battery in the car. I've been desulfating an old UPS battery (17ah) for about 4 weeks (using a hand-built unit) and I'm just finally starting to see some improvements (up to 15ah from 12ah).

I figure it is better to invest $50 now than to spend $100 every three years for a new battery.

Again, I will express that it is a shame that Nissan is not addressing this issue. What a needless waste of resources by a vehicle which is supposed to be environmentally friendly!