2016 Nissan LEAF Information - 30 kWh SV/SL, 24 kWh S

[dgpcolorado]

"easiest of city tests" I didn't say it will get an EPA sticker (comparable to our current 84) of 200 with 38 kWh but that if they can get 150 then they will probably be able to get 200 on the easy city test, the same one the leaf already gets over 100 miles on. LA4 if I remember correctly? They can then use that to back up anything they have already said to show that it can do 200 miles the same way they did with previous 100 mile claims. Also I think GM will do the exact same thing.

I try to look only at EPA numbers so that I am using the same "ruler" to measure different cars. Like others here I learned from Nissan's "LEAF has a 100 mile range" fiasco. Can I get more than 100 miles from my LEAF? Sure, I did it three times (when it was newer). But that's not a useful range under ordinary driving conditions, especially in winter.

The only one I have any faith in in delivering an epa 200+ number is Tesla and it still wouldn't shock me if they get 19X...

I think the EPA range of the base Model 3 will be somewhat more than 200 miles. Musk is on record saying that he wants a "real world" range of 200 miles:

We need over 200 miles range in the real world, not 200 miles in ‘air-conditioning off, driving on flat road’ mode.

 

[JeremyW]

You can see the new blue color here: http://www.nissanreference.com/maxima then select "Deep Blue Pearl" it looks quite nice.

 

[TonyWilliams]

You can see the new blue color here: http://www.nissanreference.com/maxima then select "Deep Blue Pearl" it looks quite nice.

It looks like the new Tesla color (and Lexus color):

http://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/2z70kc/teslas_new_blue_color/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[minispeed]

"easiest of city tests" I didn't say it will get an EPA sticker (comparable to our current 84) of 200 with 38 kWh but that if they can get 150 then they will probably be able to get 200 on the easy city test, the same one the leaf already gets over 100 miles on. LA4 if I remember correctly? They can then use that to back up anything they have already said to show that it can do 200 miles the same way they did with previous 100 mile claims. Also I think GM will do the exact same thing.

I try to look only at EPA numbers so that I am using the same "ruler" to measure different cars. Like others here I learned from Nissan's "LEAF has a 100 mile range" fiasco. Can I get more than 100 miles from my LEAF? Sure, I did it three times (when it was newer). But that's not a useful range under ordinary driving conditions, especially in winter.

The only one I have any faith in in delivering an epa 200+ number is Tesla and it still wouldn't shock me if they get 19X...

I think the EPA range of the base Model 3 will be somewhat more than 200 miles. Musk is on record saying that he wants a "real world" range of 200 miles:

We need over 200 miles range in the real world, not 200 miles in ‘air-conditioning off, driving on flat road’ mode.

I totally agree with you and I'm not trying to defend them or say that it's acceptable, just that I think due to past performance we will see something similar.

From articles I've read GM is already starting to be vague as to what the 200 mile number will relate to and if I remember correctly hearing 200 from Nissan started up after the 200 from GM. Correct me if I'm wrong but what I remember hearing from Nissan is double range on the leaf 2. Past actions are a good indicator of future performance so I'm just saying I think we will see EPA numbers under 200 from Nissan and then hear that it can do 200 on the city test cycle to validate any past claims they made of being able to do 200.

By no means would I advise someone who wants to drive almost 200 miles a day on 1 charge to buy one. I already advise people to take the EPA miles number 84 and use that as 84km max (vs the 135km it would convert to) that they would want to drive a day and still be prepared to stop on extreme winter days.

 

[dgpcolorado]

...From articles I've read GM is already starting to be vague as to what the 200 mile number will relate to and if I remember correctly hearing 200 from Nissan started up after the 200 from GM. Correct me if I'm wrong but what I remember hearing from Nissan is double range on the leaf 2. Past actions are a good indicator of future performance so I'm just saying I think we will see EPA numbers under 200 from Nissan and then hear that it can do 200 on the city test cycle to validate any past claims they made of being able to do 200...

I'm hardly surprised if GM is walking back the 200 miles number, although I haven't been paying much attention since I view the Bolt as somewhat ephemeral until there is an actual production date and specs announced; the Volt is real, the Bolt is not IMHO.

My recollection is that the Nissan double range notion came from Ghosn answering a question about it and verifying that LEAF 2 would have at least double the range of the original LEAF. And I think he said something about staying competitive with the Bolt as well. I don't care to look for the actual quotes but they are kicking around here at MNL somewhere.

For my needs, the Supercharger capable Tesla Model 3 is the only car that interests me. If Nissan comes up with a Supercharger capable LEAF 2, that could change, although I consider it very unlikely because it would require TMS to handle 100-130 kW charging rates (and dialing down the charge speed defeats the whole purpose of Supercharging for road trips). I am encouraged by Musk's goal of 200+ "real world" miles. That sure is different from the infamous "Nissan miles" we learned about with the LEAF.

Nevertheless, a 30 kWh 2016 LEAF is a noteworthy improvement over my LEAF for local use. Not that it is worth it for me to make the switch. But if I had a lease about to expire I'd be all over that 2016 model for a new lease!

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

30 kwh helps a ton! heck I was pretty stoked about my 4-5 mile improvement in my 2013 but lets keep in mind this is NOT the "double range" LEAF we had been waiting on. It is an interim step which makes sense and I am willing to bet that the new 30 kwh pack will be backwards compatible to the current LEAFs...

Am I adding to the rumor? Yes, I am. I have only my thoughts on what Nissan should be doing.

http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2015/05/used-leafs-for-cheap-so-whats-wrong.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[minispeed]

...

For my needs, the Supercharger capable Tesla Model 3 is the only car that interests me. If Nissan comes up with a Supercharger capable LEAF 2, that could change, although I consider it very unlikely because it would require TMS to handle 100-130 kW charging rates (and dialing down the charge speed defeats the whole purpose of Supercharging for road trips). I am encouraged by Musk's goal of 200+ "real world" miles. That sure is different from the infamous "Nissan miles" we learned about with the LEAF.

Nevertheless, a 30 kWh 2016 LEAF is a noteworthy improvement over my LEAF for local use. Not that it is worth it for me to make the switch. But if I had a lease about to expire I'd be all over that 2016 model for a new lease!

I too also don't feel like digging up quotes but in my interest for what they promised with the 40 kWh Tesla I went searching since I wasn't following EVs then I don't remember much of the news and found this....

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/06/30/telsa-confirms-model-s-sedan-225-mile-range-and-60k/
225 miles and $60k is a fair bit off from what we ended up getting. I think we'll see the model 3 play out very similar. Yes when the Model S launched you could get one for just under $60k but it was the 139 mile 40 and you could get one that went over 225 miles for much more $. As much as Musk wants to re-invent the way people drive you can't argue with the fact that so far more people have bought 84 mile leafs than his 200 mile cars. So maybe a cheaper 150 mile EV will be better for this earth than a 200 mile supercharger on every model upper middle class EV.

 

[evnow]

If they will, yes that is probably better to say. If weight loss doesn't give much in the way of range how come the MB B class sucks back so much juice, 28 kWh is what the Mercedes uses during the EPA test for 85 miles, i3 uses 18.8 kWh for 81 miles. I know not all of it is weight but it matters.

It's also one of the things (aero included) that matters for the extreme swings that customers experience like hard acceleration and fast speeds as well as winter range (cold dense air will affect a bad aero car more than a good one). It also makes all the other components easier and cheaper to make since they don't have to be as beefy to move/handle all that weight as well as boosting acceleration numbers that still matter to a lot of buyers.

You should compare i3 & Leaf to see what carbon fiber buys you. I've a lot of posts in the past about this - if you care to search.

OEMs don't add weight because they prefer all the issues that come with weight. It is because the cost needed to reduce weight is not worth all the trouble.

Anyway, we are getting OT here. Back to MY 16.

 

[JeremyW]

From another thread here...

I got a call from NMAC the other day offering me a six-month lease extension during which they'd only charge me for only four payments. I got the woman to tell me when the 2016 Leaf is arriving: September 7. She didn't know anything about battery range.

My lease ends on the 9th. Whew boy! If that's right, I'll be cutting it close!

 

[evnow]

When do Nissan cars normally come ?

 

[ydnas7]

My recollection is that the Nissan double range notion came from Ghosn answering a question about it and verifying that LEAF 2 would have at least double the range of the original LEAF. And I think he said something about staying competitive with the Bolt as well. I don't care to look for the actual quotes but they are kicking around here at MNL somewhere.

Nissan stated
LEAF 2 to have double the range of LEAF 1
LEAF 2 to arrive before the GM Bolt
LEAF 2 likely to have more range than GM Bolt

GM stated
Bolt to have 200 miles range, kinda

Nissan never stated the LEAF 2 to have 200 miles range

the double range comment is under Nissan's control,

the LEAF 2 to arrive before GM Volt also has strong likelihood, car companies tend to have good understanding of where their competitors are in terms of development cycle, much better understanding than consumers. Nissan understands exactly where GM development stands with the display of the Bolt concept.

whether LEAF 2 has more range than the GM Bolt? I don't know, perhaps Nissan is talking smack, but I suspect it will be true for cold area. My expectation of GM Bolt is that it is highly optimized for Califorina, with fair weather LA4 range to be maxed out to get CARB credits. Vs Nissan which is probably optimized for cold weather, city driving in Japan. They could both outrange each other for the target use.

Nissan always stated double range, never 200 miles range. Personally I consider that to be equivalent to Nissan suggesting that GM Bolt will not be a 200 mile car.

 

[evnow]

Nissan always stated double range, never 200 miles range. Personally I consider that to be equivalent to Nissan suggesting that GM Bolt will not be a 200 mile car.

Nissan didn't say double range. Ghosn said "yes" when asked, whether Leaf will have double the range.

But Ghosn did say Leaf 2 will "meet or beat Bolt in range and timing".

BTW, for those saying 200 mile range of Bolt is not EPA - how do you explain leaked info about a focus group that explicitly stated 205 miles of EPA range ?

 

[minispeed]

When do Nissan cars normally come ?

Next model year for the last 2 years at least were released in Canada first. I started my 2015 shopping June last year and when I first looked at 2014s it was around June/July 2013. I was told by the dealer that since there are so few sales in Canada they get spec cars at the start of the model run. We don't have a single option package, it's just S, SV and SL. They get a set %, I think it was 15, 55, 30 if I recall correctly and they get the same for colour.

If they follow that trend then it should come out here soon, I'll email my dealer and ask him to let me know when he knows.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Sorry if this was already mentioned, but wasn't this news relayed two years ago?

http://insideevs.com/nissan-exec-reliable-125-miles-of-range-coming-to-leaf-by-2016/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Sorry if this was already mentioned, but wasn't this news relayed two years ago?

http://insideevs.com/nissan-exec-reliable-125-miles-of-range-coming-to-leaf-by-2016/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

oh oh... bringing this article up will only invite people who will nitpick every line in the article.

 

[ishiyakazuo]

BTW, for those saying 200 mile range of Bolt is not EPA - how do you explain leaked info about a focus group that explicitly stated 205 miles of EPA range ?

Simple: leaked info pre-release can be whatever they want it to be. Just look at Nissan quoting 100 miles or more of range everywhere before the LEAF came out Pretty sure they won't get sued until they start putting it on the info sheet on the car in the showroom (or at least start taking preorders).

 

[minispeed]

BTW, for those saying 200 mile range of Bolt is not EPA - how do you explain leaked info about a focus group that explicitly stated 205 miles of EPA range ?

Simple: leaked info pre-release can be whatever they want it to be. Just look at Nissan quoting 100 miles or more of range everywhere before the LEAF came out Pretty sure they won't get sued until they start putting it on the info sheet on the car in the showroom (or at least start taking preorders).

It can also be something like "hey everyone how do you feel about buying a car with an EPA range of 205 miles for $35k?" and everyone getting all excited and the focus group saying that it worked, they love it and then the engineers saying OK that will take a battery of X and then the finance guys going well that will cost $5000 more so lets go back to the focus group, what were they more excited about the 205 mile EPA rating or the $35K cost?

We also don't know what the answers were at the end to 205 miles, what if a bunch of people said "that's great but what I really need is just 150 so 205 is a bonus".

 

[evnow]

Did you guys read the leaked focus group information I'm talking about ?

Irrespective of what they'll actually come out with - the intention is a 200 mile EPA BEV. Because that is what model 3 will be - that GM is trying to beat.

When talking about range it is not useful to bring up talk of LA04 range etc from 5 years back. Market has moved from there.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Did you guys read the leaked focus group information I'm talking about ?

Irrespective of what they'll actually come out with - the intention is a 200 mile EPA BEV. Because that is what model 3 will be - that GM is trying to beat.

When talking about range it is not useful to bring up talk of LA04 range etc from 5 years back. Market has moved from there.

price point will be more important than range. I will gladly take a 140 mile range EV if it saves me several thousand over a 200 mile EV. Tesla is targeting a $35,000 EV like everyone will flock to it and I think they are CRAZY. last I checked, no one wants to pay that much for any kind of car...

 

[Dmchose]

Hmmm... Priced a women fav. FourRunner or jeep or any of the super popular BMWs and Benzes lately. I'm thinking I'm driving the least expensive by a vast majority.