20amp 110vac charging, anyone?

[rmay635703]

I'm just curious if any manufacturer sold an EV that could use the full rate of a 20amp outlet.

Everywhere I go, including gas stations, work and home have a minimum of a 20amp 110vac outlet, leaf and others should be able to draw 16amps at 110vac, why does no one do this?

Thanx
Ryan

 

[91040]

First, charging an EV is classified as continuous use by the electric code. The rule for this is 80% of the circuit rating, hence 16A.

Second, I think the Leaf will not allow more than 16A when charging at 120VAC (L1).
Edit- Probably 12A on L1 for the Leaf.

 

[pkulak]

I've wondered this too (though it's usually closer to 120 volts unless you're really far from the transformer). That extra 33% from 12 to 16 amps would be nice when I'm at a relative's house trying to top up, since most new wiring is 20 amp these days.

Does EVSE upgrade let you specify 16 amps instead of 12?

 

[Nubo]

I imagine the L1 EVSE is meant (in the States), to meet the lowest-common-denominator (i.e. any 120V receptacle). Nissan gives the impression it's not intended to be used as the customer's primary EVSE. Making it 16-amp capable would require some mechanism to select between 12 and 16 Amp operation (increased complexity and liability), and perhaps beefier components. Not sure, but the electrical code might also require a 20-Amp specific plug. Do you make 2 models, use switchable pigtails, etc...? Added complexity and liability that probably don't seem justified given the unit's intended purpose as last-resort charging equipment.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

going that way is sure trouble. the option to "lower" the amperage was a great idea

 

[EVDRIVER]

First, charging an EV is classified as continuous use by the electric code. The rule for this is 80% of the circuit rating, hence 16A.

Second, I think the Leaf will not allow more than 16A when charging at 120VAC (L1).
Edit- Probably 12A on L1 for the Leaf.

A 2013 plus LEAF can draw more than 16A at 120v but it since 20A circuits are the norm it is not useful with the exception of things like RV TT30's. 2011-12 are charger restricted to 12A.

 

[jpadc]

Actually I can tell you that your Nissan LEAF, if it has the 6.6kW onboard charger can and will charge drawing up to 30 amps (actually 28 or so) at 120 volts if you have an EVSE that will deliver it. Most EVSEs, of course, won't advertise such an available current level if the input voltage is 120 volts. I know of no commercially available EVSE that will do this.

Such a setting is not specified in the standard J1772 protocol, but as long as the EVSE sets the duty cycle of the Pilot signal to 50% (which you can with an older Juicebox) the LEAF will oblige and draw all the current the EVSE will allow up to the max of the onboard charger regardless of the input voltage level. The Pilot signal only indicates amperage available, not voltage.

So I can (and do) tow my LEAF to campgrounds and if they only have 30 amp 120 volt (and not 240 volt 50 amp) service available, I just set the Juicebox so it will advertise 30 amp service and away it goes. The car charges much faster at 30 amps than at 12 amps even at 120 volts.

I recently added an Open EVSE device that I built and have been trying to use at the same 30 amp 120 volts setting with it, but I'm still having a few problems with the Open EVSE device but I've not had time to get back to it of late as its a setting I've rarely used. I got the Open EVSE as I wanted a smaller device that I could use for travel while leaving my clunky Juicebox at home.

P.S. If you are one of the EMW haters and believe their devices are unsafe, you don't have to get one, I'm not pushing or selling them or the Open EVSE or anything else. I've heard all the arguments against them and don't need or care to hear them again here. I think EMW has the worst customer service this side of Comcast (while Chris at Open EVSE provides the absolute best service) but I'm very happy with the quality and safety of the Juicebox I assembled and I have learned a lot about the J1772 standard and EVSEs in general while assembling and testing these devises and that is what I wanted.

 

[minispeed]

Clipper creek now sells units that have more amperage at 120v.

http://www.clippercreek.com/store/product-category/12a-charging

$379-469

I would imagine that the market strategy is towards parking lots/employers that want to be more cost effective than L2 and install more chargers for the same price. All but one unit (which is stock 12 amps) is hardwired. You could easily wire them with the right plug if you had a high voltage 120v outlet.

Considering the price of a 16 amp 240 volt unit if you're doing a single install you'd be a fool to buy the 120 volt unit even if it meets your needs.

I imagine Nissans choice was simple, the cord is only for emergencies so might as well make it work with as many outlets as possible. It might be illegal for them to offer it at a higher rate than 12 amps with a plug that fits into a standard socket. Even if it's not illegal they're just setting them selves up for a law suit after fires. Add into that the small increase in charge time would be offset by the many uneducated users who come back to a near empty car in the morning and a blown breaker. Engineering it to work at a higher amperage only with an attached adapter would be pricey and needless since almost all customers would go L2 anyways.

 

[rcm4453]

I'm just curious if any manufacturer sold an EV that could use the full rate of a 20amp outlet.

Everywhere I go, including gas stations, work and home have a minimum of a 20amp 110vac outlet, leaf and others should be able to draw 16amps at 110vac, why does no one do this?

Thanx
Ryan

Actually 2013 on up Leafs will charge at 16 amps 120V with an upgraded stock EVSE. EVSE upgrade.com can do it you just send them your stock EVSE. I believe this also makes your stock EVSE capable of L2 240V charging as well. I will be doing this when I get my Leaf as I only have access to 20 amp 120V outlets in the parking garage.


http://evseupgrade.com/?main_page=index&cPath=1&zenid=gcncb26k9bhkfnt860t0e1fcg4

 

[rmay635703]

110vac outlets come in 20amp and even higher variety plugs and cords, I see absolutely no legal issue with offering a 110vac 20amp EVSE and matched end, I literally have 20amp available everywhere, work, gas stations and even at home.

Sadly I don't think my particular car will care if I have a 20amp plus 110vac evse (not a 2013+ leaf)

ah well.

 

[knightmb]

110vac outlets come in 20amp and even higher variety plugs and cords, I see absolutely no legal issue with offering a 110vac 20amp EVSE and matched end, I literally have 20amp available everywhere, work, gas stations and even at home.

Sadly I don't think my particular car will care if I have a 20amp plus 110vac evse (not a 2013+ leaf)

ah well.

A 20 amp 120v outlet can only safety charge you at 80% power, so 16 amps would be the limit. That's why those upgraded L1 EVSE max out at 16 amps for safety reasons. To charge at 20 amp on a 120v outlet, it would need to be rated for 25 amp, which is basically hitting the commercial level type of outlets and 10 AWG wiring to those outlets, which unless specialized, no one really wires outlets like that by default.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Yes. The only safe place to charge with a 20 amp 120 volt EVSE would be an RV park with TT-30 120 volt 30 amp outlets. And for that you'd also need an adapter.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Actually I can tell you that your Nissan LEAF, if it has the 6.6kW onboard charger can and will charge drawing up to 30 amps (actually 28 or so) at 120 volts if you have an EVSE that will deliver it. Most EVSEs, of course, won't advertise such an available current level if the input voltage is 120 volts. I know of no commercially available EVSE that will do this.

Our JESLA will absolutley do up to 40 amps at 120 volts.

http://shop.quickchargepower.com/JESLA-is-THE-40-amp-J1772-portable-charging-solution-JESLA.htm

You will need an adaptor from whatever 120 volt outlet you have to the following plugs. It should go without saying that the electric circuit that you are using MUST BE ABLE TO HANDLE 125% OF THE AMPERAGE USED.

.......................................................VOLTS / AMPS..........kW
NEMA 5-15* ......Standard Outlet.. 120 V / 12 A...... 1.4 kW (15 amp circuit)
NEMA 6-15 .......Air Conditioners.. 120 V / 12 A ..... 1.4kW (15 amp circuit)
NEMA 5-20 ...... Motel A/C .......... 120 V / 16 A....... 1.9 kW (20 amp circuit)
NEMA 10-30......Older Dryers........ 120 V / 24 A...... 2.9 kW (30 amp circuit)
NEMA 14-50*.....RV Parks ........... 120 V / 40 A...... 4.8 kW (50 amp circuit)

 

[srl99]

I used an OpenEVSE at 16A on a 20A circuit for a long time. It meant the difference between making it home or not after charging all day at work.

I second the opinion about steering far clear of EMW.

 

[asemeco]

EVSE Upgrade with 120V 16 Amp:

Power output: programmable from 6 to 12/16 amps on 100-167 volts*
...
*16A 120v charging requires a separate 20A 120V adapter, please contact us.

From:
http://evseupgrade.com/?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=28

But it is true of all Nissan upgrades, even for 2011 units.

 

[davewill]

I'd go easy with those 5-20 outlets. While it's true that they are fairly common in commercial environments, there's nothing that says there aren't a BUNCH of other outlets on the same circuit with lord know what plugged into them. I think that 12a is actually a safer choice unless you know the particular circuit is in good shape and not being used (much) for other purposes.