.

[rawhog]

.

 

[cwerdna]

For the purposes of your bill, since you're not on TOU billing, it doesn't matter.

http://www.pge.com/rateoptions/ and http://www.pge.com/nots/rates/tariffs/rateinfo.shtml should prove useful.

 

[palmermd]

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=661
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=676

If you do not have a TOU rate (e9) then you do not have peak versus non-peak rates. Your rates change winter to summer, but not hour to hour.

http://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-1.pdf
http://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-9.pdf

 

[planet4ever]

Before the flames kick in. I tried searching for the PG&E thread. But the search function deletes PG&E as being too common.

When you go to the search page, look closely for a faint box that says "Google™ Custom Search" right below a line that says
"Annoyed with the standard search on this forum? Use Google powered My Nissan Leaf search:"

If you enter PG&E there it will give you lots of hits.

Ray

 

[mxp]

Before the flames kick in. I tried searching for the PG&E thread. But the search function deletes PG&E as being too common. So, to my question. I am on E1 rates. Does it matter if I charge "off-Peak" since I do not have TOU?

You will definitely go over your E1 "baseline" if you charge frequently. Once you use up your baseline, you move up into the next tier, and a higher pricing; and so on.

Best to track it for 1 or 2 months on E1 and see how much your bill goes up. Summer months are the best gauge assuming you also have central A/C at home...

edit: updated with a handy PG & E link to determine your baseline "bucket" by plugging in your ZIPCODE:

http://www.pge.com/myhome/myaccount/charges/

 

[lemketron]

I've been crunching numbers lately for E-1, E-6, and E-9. I currently have a small (2.1 kW) PV array which I installed eight years ago. I'm still on E-1 since it seemed (at the time) like switching to TOU was not a good idea since I wasn't going to be able to push much back into the grid during peak summer hours. Since getting my LEAF in May, I'm now looking at adding more solar to make it worthwhile to switch to E-6. But in crunching the numbers, I made some interesting discoveries...

Even after adding enough new solar to zero out my annual true-up (in dollars, assuming a switch from E-1 to E-6 TOU), my off-peak consumption would still be way over baseline -- the charges for which are offset by credit earned by over-generation at peak summer rates. At 130% of baseline, I'd be paying $.27/kWh and at 200%, I'd be paying $.31/kWh for off-peak power. Staying on E-1 is worse, since the true-up would end up being several hundred dollars, and any usage past 130% of baseline is $.30/kWh (or $.34/kWh if over 200% of baseline, which is where I'm at today).

Why is this interesting? Because this means that charging my LEAF is currently costing me $.34/kWh, or roughly $.10/mile. That's Prius-like cost of driving, rather than the one or two cents per mile that I could (and should) be paying on E-9b (where you have a second meter, dedicated to car charging, with a whole new baseline allowance of power at ~$.04/kWh).

E-9a is an option some people consider, but there are (at least) two problems: First, you end up paying even more for peak power than on E-6, and second, as soon as you hit 130% of baseline in off-peak, that $.06/kWh rate shoots up to $.25/kWh, or $.30/kWh for 200%+. With E-9a my regular home off-peak usage would again put me past 130% eliminating the "cheap charging power" attraction of switching to E-9. The caveat is that it can be really difficult to estimate what your usage might be in each time bucket. I suspect that some folks with either a large solar array or very little off-peak use may be ok on E-9a (or even E-6), but it's a bit of a gamble.

So my current conclusions appear to be that (1) switching to E-9b makes a LOT of sense (despite what I had always thought previously). In fact, as some have no doubt already figured out, the savings from charging on E-9b can likely amount to $40-$90/month or more -- enough to pay back the new meter and charging circuit installation costs within the first year or two. I only drive about 500 miles/month using about 150 kWh. Saving $.30+/kWh amounts to about $45/month if I switch to E-9b. If you drive 1000 miles/month, most (but not all) charging would likely still be within the E-9b baseline rate, with a savings of nearly $100/month.

In my case, I need to install a new electrical panel to upgrade my solar, and EV Project is covering the cost of the new circuit from the panel to the garage, so my only net cost will be whatever extra cost there is to add the second meter socket when everything is already torn apart for the panel upgrade.

One downside to E-9b is that you cannot (afaik) apply a net metering credit from over-generation on the house meter to the charges on the EV meter. This means I need to be careful to add only enough solar to zero out the house bill, NOT counting the EV charging. But that's fine, because on E-9b charging my car is only going to cost me about $5/month anyway. In fact, the second "meter charge" of ~$6/month is more than the cost of the electricity that will be flowing through it in most months.

I've spent hours figuring this out, and I'm glad I did it before assuming that the best plan was adding a lot more solar and continuing to charge my car on E-1 or E-6. Some people may not care if they're paying $.30/kWh to charge the car, as I initially didn't either -- but why do that if you can switch to E-9b and take advantage of that $.04/kWh for baseline off-peak power? Especially considering how much off-peak really costs on E-9a or E-6 as soon as you get past 130% of baseline?

Sorry this was long -- hope someone finds it helpful.
--Steve

 

[mxp]

Why is this interesting? Because this means that charging my LEAF is currently costing me $.34/kWh, or roughly $.10/mile. That's Prius-like cost of driving, rather than the one or two cents per mile that I could be paying on E-9b (where you have a second meter, dedicated to car charging, with a whole new baseline allowance of power at ~$.04/kWh).


Sorry this was long -- hope some of you find it helpful.
--Steve

Yes, you got it justified appropriately. Plus, for 2011, when you file your income tax return, you can claim 30% of $1000 (max) cost for putting in the 2nd meter. Better than nothing IMHO.

Incidently, where did you get that reference of "whole new baseline allowance of power at ~$.04/kWh" ? That does not sound right.

 

[DeaneG]

Incidently, where did you get that reference of "whole new baseline allowance of power at ~$.04/kWh" ? That does not sound right.

It is correct, I called PG&E to verify when researching last year. The 2nd meter is treated as a second account with its own baseline and usage tiers.

 

[Spies]

E-9a is an option some people consider, but there are (at least) two problems: First, you end up paying even more for peak power than on E-6, and second, as soon as you hit 130% of baseline in off-peak, that $.06/kWh rate shoots up to $.25/kWh, or $.30/kWh for 200%+.

Not sure where you are getting those numbers but even with the most recent price hikes the E9A rates for Summer off peak are $0.05294, $0.16200 and $0.20200.

Once again for my situation of the available tariffs E9A wins hands down even if I was to add solar. E9B could certainly be better but the upfront costs are exorbitant for me and would be better spent on adding a solar array.

Here is a link to the current E9 rate http://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-9.pdf

For those that are curious here is a link to my most recent E9A bill http://home.comcast.net/~misterspies/leaf/E9A.pdf

 

[DeaneG]

I am on E9a, with enough PV solar to keep me in tier 2 or below in the worst months. It's been pretty effective keeping my electricity rate reasonable. Not much financial sense in adding more PV than that.

 

[greenleaf]

I am on E9a too. I find it better than E1.

My PV system is 3.22kW DC. It generates about 20 to 21 kWh a day in summer and it is enough to wipe out any 3rd tier (130%) usage.

In winter, all tiers in E9a are lower than the corresponding tier in E1.

 

[rwherrick]

We switched over to E9a, and it brought our bills down to lower than they'd been before the electric car. (We don't need air conditioning, and thus don't have as much peak time usage as many other people would). Yes, the tier 3 night-time summer rates are higher (14.8cents / kWh), but our weighted cost of electricity for night-time usage is 8.4 cents per kWh, or about 1.9 cents per mile for my driving mix. I have the timer set to charge every night (to 80%) between midnight and 7am, and have very little need to charge outside those hours. I would recommend E9a to anyone in PG&E territory, so long as they didn't have high peak usage.

- Bob