6.6 Kw LEAF Charger

[davewill]

The BMS does not request charging. You can dump whatever you want into the pack and the BMS will regulate it as needed. As long as the similar connections are there in the 2013 LEAF and they can handle more current, charging can be added up to that limit of the connections.

That's not how I understood from Phil, but maybe I misunderstood him.

In any case, the question is if the BMS will pass more than 6.6KW to the battery, other than in a QC setup. QC seems to be different since the BMS does tell the QC station how much power to send.

Yeah, that's not the way I understood it, either. I thought it was pretty clear that the battery controller advertised the max current, and that Phil had to lower the output, and finally turn off his auxiliary charger as max current dropped to the max output of the LEAFs charger.

 

[tbleakne]

>> The charger in the 2011-2012 is a stand-alone unit located in the hump behind the rear seat. The 2013 charger, both the 3.3kW and the 6kW unit, is located under the hood as part of an integrated power stack along with the inverter and motor. All parts of that unit are water cooled using a single integrated cooling system, so none of them could stand alone.>>

Ray

It sounds like the integrated cooling system up front saves running cooling lines to the back. If the charger is no longer in the hump behind the rear seat for 2013, is there something else still in this hump, or is the hump gone ?

 

[davewill]

It sounds like the integrated cooling system up front saves running cooling lines to the back. If the charger is no longer in the hump behind the rear seat for 2013, is there something else still in this hump, or is the hump gone ?

The hump is gone. It also saves running some hefty cables to the rear of the car.

 

[oakwcj]

It sounds like the integrated cooling system up front saves running cooling lines to the back. If the charger is no longer in the hump behind the rear seat for 2013, is there something else still in this hump, or is the hump gone ?

The hump is gone. It also saves running some hefty cables to the rear of the car.

The hump is not only not gone, it's actually bigger. That's because the parking brake is now mechanical, rather than electrical, so the brake cable runs to the back wheels. I was surprised to see how high the hump is.

 

[davewill]

The hump is not only not gone, it's actually bigger. That's because the parking brake is now mechanical, rather than electrical, so the brake cable runs to the back wheels. I was surprised to see how high the hump is.

Different hump. We're talking about the one BEHIND the rear seats, not the one between the passengers.

 

[oakwcj]

The hump is not only not gone, it's actually bigger. That's because the parking brake is now mechanical, rather than electrical, so the brake cable runs to the back wheels. I was surprised to see how high the hump is.

Different hump. We're talking about the one BEHIND the rear seats, not the one between the passengers.

Right. This camel has two humps. If you get the Bose subwoofer, you'll have a rectangular solid in place of the hump behind the rear seats.

 

[ASIANLEOPARD]

Personally it may be too expensive to remove the old on board and replace it with the new 6.6 however the most economical way might just be going wireless at the house.
http://www.pluglesspower.com/go-plugless/wireless-ev-charging/the-plugless-powers-benefits/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[davewill]

Personally it may be too expensive to remove the old on board and replace it with the new 6.6 however the most economical way might just be going wireless at the house.
http://www.pluglesspower.com/go-plugless/wireless-ev-charging/the-plugless-powers-benefits/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well, at $3000, it isn't especially cheap. It uses the on-board charger and has the same 3.3kW limit of the current LEAFs, so it's no replacement for an upgraded charger. Still, it sounds interesting for those who just can't stand having to plug in.

Specs:

 

[mwalsh]

The other thread on this started me thinking...at some point a 2013 w/ 6.6kW charging is going to get totalled out. What do you reckon the upgrade path of least resistance is when it comes to moving the guts of it into the bodyshell of a 2011/2012?

 

[davewill]

... What do you reckon the upgrade path of least resistance is when it comes to moving the guts of it into the bodyshell of a 2011/2012?

Take off the fake "valve cover" and see if you can mount it there with an adapter plate and still fit under the hood. Putting it under the hump in place of the old one is kind of a non-starter because the wiring back to there isn't beefy enough, and running new wiring would be a big, expensive job.

If that works, you should be able to disconnect the old charger, and hook the new 6.6kW one into the J1772 inlet, the HV wiring that goes to the inverter, and find a connection to the appropriate CAN bus somewhere under the hood. Then you spin the prayer wheel and hope the new charger is compatible with the older LEAF's control systems. If not, you'll have to diagnose the differences, and create a small embedded computer to translate between the new charger and the older LEAF.

Or you cry on Phil's shoulder for help.

 

[mwalsh]

I was thinking more in terms of the combined motor/charger from the newer car being the path of least resistance. The wiring to the charger shouldn't be a big deal, since it's now all under the hood. However, in a "swings and roundabouts" kind of way, you'd most likely need to change out the wiring between the charger and the battery pack. Not because it's construction is any different, but because the old wiring would likely only reach to the rear of the car.

I would think changing out the control systems from the newer car would be preferable to fabricating a new computer. Those should all be bolt-in changes (though I have seen inexplicable changes to both mounting points and electrical connectors take place between one model year and the next, so I may have to eat those words).

Edit: I'm starting to look at some 2013 under-the-hood pictures - looks like coolant lines and reservoirs would need repositioning/routing as would the battery and battery tray. But, again, all those things could be pirated from the newer car, assuming they weren't damaged in the wreck. Looks like a vehicle with a rear-end collision big enough to make it a write-off might be one's best bet.

 

[davewill]

I was thinking more in terms of the combined motor/charger from the newer car being the path of least resistance. The wiring to the charger shouldn't be a big deal, since it's now all under the hood. However, in a "swings and roundabouts" kind of way, you'd most likely need to change out the wiring between the charger and the battery pack. Not because it's construction is any different, but because the old wiring would likely only reach to the rear of the car.

I would think changing out the control systems from the newer car would be preferable to fabricating a new computer. Those should all be bolt-in changes (though I have seen inexplicable changes to both mounting points and electrical connectors take place between one model year and the next, so I may have to eat those words).

I have trouble calling changing the entire motor assembly, which almost certainly means fabricating new mounts, and new wiring harnesses the "path of least resistance".

I said the charger has to be put under the hood. The HV wiring comes to the front of the car to run the the motor, and the DC-to-DC converter. It will be plenty beefy, too, so connecting the new charger to that point should be no problem. I'm not talking about creating a new computer, just translating the control signals between the new charger and the 2011/2012 computer (if you'd even need that).

 

[mwalsh]

I have trouble calling changing the entire motor assembly, which almost certainly means fabricating new mounts, and new wiring harnesses the "path of least resistance".

Oh, yeah. If the motor mounts are different, then that will almost certainly make life more complicated. Though those too could be cut out of the newer car and welded into place on the older one (though that wouldn't be ideal). Is the motor a different one from ours? I wasn't aware of that.

 

[planet4ever]

I have trouble calling changing the entire motor assembly, which almost certainly means fabricating new mounts, and new wiring harnesses the "path of least resistance".

Oh, yeah. If the motor mounts are different, then that will almost certainly make life more complicated. Though those too could be cut out of the newer car and welded into place on the older one (though that wouldn't be ideal). Is the motor a different one from ours? I wasn't aware of that.

Yes, the motor is different. But I would still think changing the entire assembly would be the easier - make that less impossible - way to go. First, it appears that the charger and inverter are completely integrated, to the point that there really is no separate charger now. That makes sense because the previous inverter also worked as a charger during regen. Second, I can't see any evidence of separate cooling hoses for inverter, DC/DC converter, and motor. I believe there are internal cooling ducts among those three components, with gaskets between them. If so, I don't see how you could possibly replace any of them without replacing all of them.

Ray

 

[davewill]

... I believe there are internal cooling ducts among those three components, with gaskets between them. If so, I don't see how you could possibly replace any of them without replacing all of them.

in that case, I think you're back to Phil's approach with the supplemental charger under the hood as the path of least resistance...right after trading your car in for a 2013.

 

[oobflyer]

I spoke with a Nissan engineer (Owen) this weekend - he said that the electronics on the 2013 Leaf were completely redesigned. If you look under the hood the 2013 looks very different from the previous models. The inverter / charger, etc., are all different from prior models - and are not compatible with the older electronic components.

No upgrades for us...another good reason to lease....

 

[JeremyW]

No upgrades for us...another good reason to lease...

Unless you go aftermarket.

 

[tbleakne]

It's a 6.0 kW on-board charger

While in Santa Barbara this weekend, I charged at the parking structure at the Granada Theater right next to a 2013 LEAF that was also charging. My Gid meter showed 3.3kW going into my battery, and Chargepoint showed 3.7 kW feeding my inverter. I believe I was getting a full 240V AC, because 208V gives me a little less power. The Chargepoint next to me was feeding 6.0 kW Into the 2013 LEAF. If the Chargepoints were supplying 240V, the 2013 LEAF was only drawing 25A, just 50% more than a 2011 LEAF.

I realize 208V * 29A = 6 kW, but the evidence from my car suggests but does not prove we were both getting 240V. It seems quite possible that Nissan has switched to rating their inverter's input rather than its output. This matches what Tesla does.

Matt, I know you have been all up and down the coast in your FiT EV. Have you charged at the Granada Theater parking structure ? If so, how much power did you draw ?

 

[EVDRIVER]

They rate the total consumption is not a big mystery.

 

[KeiJidosha]

...Have you charged at the Granada Theater parking structure ? If so, how much power did you draw ?

I have parked at City Lot 6 and Lot 7 that are behind (N) the Granada. Lot 7 used to have ClipperCreek Avcon. It was 208 volts (MINI E pulled 6.6kW). When headed north I like to stop at Rabobank in Goleta as that location is solid 240V.

Found an entry for Lot 6. Only pulled 5.7kW in Fit EV