72 mile Round-Trip commute in San Francisco Bay Area, CA

[leafca]

I want to lease a 2014 Nissan Leaf SV with Quick Charge option ASAP, but from reading all the blogs, I am really unable to determine if it will work for my commute. I am worried about leasing the car and then finding out that it won't work for me. I could really use some advice.

I commute 36-miles each way from San Jose, CA to Redwood City, CA (in Northern California) for a total of 72 miles per day. Speeds may vary depending on traffic, but since I will be able to ride in the car pool lane, I imagine I will be driving close to the speed limit (65 MPH), although there may be intermittent slowing. Temperatures will usually get only as low as 40sF in the winters and as high as 80sF (during times I commute). At least in the summers, I definitely need to be running the A/C and may run the heater in the winter depending on the temperature.

I DO NOT have the ability to charge at work during the day. Therefore, I am wondering if the Leaf would work for me with only the 240V charging overnight at home. I am planning to charge the battery at 100% and want to factor in running the A/C in the summers, and heater in the winter to see if the leaf might be able to handle the 72 mile round trip commute. I would great appreciate any thoughts.

 

[derkraut]

I would not recommend a 72 mile round trip without the ability to charge @ work. It may work for a few months, but you'll soon be in trouble range-wise. However, if you could plug in, with a standard 110-120V outlet at work, you'd be fine.

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
Agree completely w/all of the above. That commute is just at the edge of the Leaf's range for highway purposes.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I'd say it's past the car's range, at those speeds. You might manage it with no heat or A/C, but you'd be driving within a few miles of the car shutting down even then. If you could slow to 60MPH you might manage it, but you really would need to be able to at least charge at 120 volts at work.

 

[DanCar]

I am wondering if the Leaf would work for me with only the 240V charging overnight at home.

Are you familiar with that commute? The traffic is very often slow or stopped which actually helps with range. I've had mine since March and haven't noticed reduced range. Still can go to Santa Cruze or San Fran. Redwood has fairly cool temps, so battery degradation due to heat should be minimal. I typically get around 90 miles of range although I'm a careful driver, which means drive slower than usual and only use the regen brake.
I believe the Leaf will work well for you but:
1. You will have to drive carefully. No driving on others peoples bumpers as most people do, because you need space to use the regen when traffic slows.
2. It might be a bit nerve racking, if you are the nervous type about range.
3. There are plenty of fast chargers on the route so if you do run into trouble you can stop and recharge fairly easily. The rechargers that I've used are free.
4. Unknown about reduced range second year.

Having said that, I would wait if possible for the new battery that is suppose to come out mid year. There might be an option for 150 mile range leaf although at an increased cost.

You will love saving money on gas and driving in the carpool lane.

 

[peter]

However there are a lot (5) of QC's within a 1-6 mile range of Redwood City and many local L2's. So it is
possible but will require a lot of care.

 

[cwerdna]

I am wondering if the Leaf would work for me with only the 240V charging overnight at home.

Are you familiar with that commute? The traffic is very often slow or stopped which actually helps with range. I've had mine since March and haven't noticed reduced range. Still can go to Santa Cruze or San Fran. Redwood has fairly cool temps, so battery degradation due to heat should be minimal.

Sure, the lower speeds helps w/increasing range. As for you having had your since March, well, yeah. Let's see what the degradation looks like once you hit the 2 year mark.

However there are a lot (5) of QC's within a 1-6 mile range of Redwood City and many local L2's. So it is
possible but will require a lot of care.

Yeah, but some of them aren't reliable and I've heard reports of sometimes very long lines for Boardwalk Nissan's DC FC (as many as 5+ in line). I don't know if the OP wants to be stopping to use such infrastructure on a daily basis.

 

[smkettner]

RAV4-EV or Tesla

 

[DanCar]

Sure, the lower speeds helps w/increasing range. As for you having had your since March, well, yeah. Let's see what the degradation looks like once you hit the 2 year mark.

Take a two year lease like I have done so that becomes irrelevant.

Yeah, but some of them aren't reliable and I've heard reports of sometimes very long lines for Boardwalk Nissan's DC FC (as many as 5+ in line). I don't know if the OP wants to be stopping to use such infrastructure on a daily basis.

I see 12 fast charging stations between Redwood and San Jose using plugshare map. And more keep popping up. 12 seems like double from what was available last year.

 

[cwerdna]

Sure, the lower speeds helps w/increasing range. As for you having had your since March, well, yeah. Let's see what the degradation looks like once you hit the 2 year mark.

Take a two year lease like I have done so that becomes irrelevant.

Which is what I have.

And, my commute is only ~12 miles each way w/free L2 charging at work...

 

[cgaydos]

I live in Colorado but know Redwood City well as I do a lot of work there - and years ago I commuted to RWC from the south bay.

Like others I wouldn't recommend the LEAF for you without the possibility of charging at work. It should work most days but there will be days when you'll be pushing the limit - think of a day with a high speed headwind, lots of rain (adds resistance), and temps in the upper 30s. Over time you'll be pushing the limit more and more often as the battery will degrade. In addition, this assumes you NEVER take the LEAF for a side trip going to-or-from work, which doesn't seem realistic.

However, there are a ton of charging stations in the RWC area, including many DC quick chargers that can top you up to 80% in 30 minutes. Even if your workplace doesn't have a charging station you can look into whether there is an option for nearby daytime charging or a quick charge just before going home. Finally, your work may have a 110V plug available in the parking lot - this will allow you to trickle charge using the EVSE cord that comes with the LEAF. That will be sufficient during the workday to give you the extra charge you'll need.

 

[leafca]

I greatly appreciate all the thoughts and advice. It is very helpful to understand the realistic range for my commute (other than just the reference point of the Leaf's range rating and blog postings that did not directly reflect my situation).

As several of you suggested, I am going to look into the possibility of 120 volt charging at work and identify locations (and ready availability) of quick chargers before making a decision.

Although I really like the Leaf, I am also looking at the RAV4EV for its longer range. RAV4 EV seemed quite expensive (nearly 2x the lease payments of a Leaf), and the the vehicle itself (outside of the Tesla power system) looked like an older model of the RAV4, and not particularly impressive.

My decision has come down to a Leaf with a questionable range (if I can't find a way to charge at work) or the RAV4 EV (expensive, not well supported by Toyota).

 

[stjohnh]

I greatly appreciate all the thoughts and advice. It is very helpful to understand the realistic range for my commute (other than just the reference point of the Leaf's range rating and blog postings that did not directly reflect my situation).

As several of you suggested, I am going to look into the possibility of 120 volt charging at work and identify locations (and ready availability) of quick chargers before making a decision.

Although I really like the Leaf, I am also looking at the RAV4EV for its longer range. RAV4 EV seemed quite expensive (nearly 2x the lease payments of a Leaf), and the the vehicle itself (outside of the Tesla power system) looked like an older model of the RAV4, and not particularly impressive.

My decision has come down to a Leaf with a questionable range (if I can't find a way to charge at work) or the RAV4 EV (expensive, not well supported by Toyota).

There are several people that post on these forums that have a RAV4 EV, and they mostly like them. If you just want to go to work and don't want to bother with the borderline range of the Leaf, the RAV4 is likely a good way to go, though likely your total cost of ownership of a RAV4 EV is likely to be considerably higher than with a LEAF. If you just want to get to work as inexpensively as possible, without hassles, a Prius or Volt may be even better choices.

 

[smkettner]

I would never buy into QC every day adding 20 minutes to my commute. It would be like getting gas twice a day, no thanks.
One of the best parts of an EV is never stopping for fuel for the regular commute.

 

[CoolerThanICE]

I know the area. I don't think it will work for you without recharging.
However, there are a few options to QC in RWC - a 10min pitstop will make a huge difference.

- QC in Nissan Boardwalk
- QC in Evernote

There are a lot of level 2 options... check it out. Good luck!

 

[edatoakrun]

I want to lease a 2014 Nissan Leaf SV with Quick Charge option ASAP, but from reading all the blogs, I am really unable to determine if it will work for my commute. I am worried about leasing the car and then finding out that it won't work for me. I could really use some advice.

I commute 36-miles each way from San Jose, CA to Redwood City, CA (in Northern California) for a total of 72 miles per day. Speeds may vary depending on traffic, but since I will be able to ride in the car pool lane, I imagine I will be driving close to the speed limit (65 MPH), although there may be intermittent slowing...

Reality check on the future of travel speeds in the Bay Area HOV lanes in a recent report from a friend of mine who lives in Los Gatos and drives a PIP to work:

...The carpool lane currently consists of Leafs, Priuses, Volts, and Teslas (and the occasional Google bus) tip to tail going 30 MPH. Which is still 20 MPH faster than the folks in the other lanes. See what you're missing.

A year ago I would have advised you your commute was too far and too fast for a LEAF, but with the impending slowdown of all the Bay Area HOV lanes due to the proliferation of qualifying BEV/PHEVs, I think you may find a LEAF a very reliable option.

Assuming you commute during heavy traffic periods, most of the time you will make the commute at the speed traffic allows in the HOV lane.

On the coldest days (even if you can't get a ~5 minute shot of fast DC, or worst case, ~30 minutes of 6 kW L2) you can easily use the built-in range extender (the A/D pedal) and drive in the other lanes at a slower speed, and make 72 miles.

For the vast majority of "freeway" commuters in more extreme climates, 72 miles is much too far to count on from a "100%" charge.

But your BEV-ideal climate, high likelihood of traffic-imposed speed reduction, and most importantly, the best DC availability in the USA in your area, (just went to plugshare and found at least 14 DC sites on or within a few miles of your route) puts you in the it could be done category, IMO.

The real question is your psychological suitability.

For those susceptible to range anxiety, the experience of driving beyond the LBW and getting home with limited miles of range left seems a fate worse than death.

How do you think you will react?

 

[leafca]

@edatoakrun: I think you have a really great observation regarding HOV lane traffic. I do see HOV lanes on the 101 North slowed down in general, and even crawling in a few segments. I do travel during normal commute hours, so your point is well taken.

I am not the type to have range anxiety (what is the worst that can happen - if I misjudge the range and the car dies, I will just call AAA, and then learn from the experience in terms of how much I can push the range).

I am more concerned about not being able to get consistent access to a L2 or QC charger. There are several L2 chargers in Redwood City, CA (very near my work), but they are always occupied with cars. There appears to be a huge demand, and I may have to work very hard during the day to get a spot. Most of the problem seems to be that people hog the chargers. They leave their electric cars parked at charging stations long after their charging time. In some cases, ICE owners seem to thoughtlessly occupy charging stations as parking spots.

 

[edatoakrun]

...I am more concerned about not being able to get consistent access to a L2 or QC charger. There are several L2 chargers in Redwood City, CA (very near my work), but they are always occupied with cars. There appears to be a huge demand, and I may have to work very hard during the day to get a spot. Most of the problem seems to be that people hog the chargers. They leave their electric cars parked at charging stations long after their charging time. In some cases, ICE owners seem to thoughtlessly occupy charging stations as parking spots.

I would not suggest you not plan to recharge during the day consistently, only on those days when you have to.

And use driving slower, off-freeway if you have to, as your back-up range-extender to the (presently less than ideal) DC charge network

Public L2 is the "worst case", since, IMO, it is largely useless as it scales for BEVs even more poorly than HOV lane access incentives.

The key question is your driving speed.

If you either have to or are willing to do a large part of your commute at less than 65 mph, you are within "100% charge range.

You can get a good idea of range by looking at the test data here:

http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/fsev/fact2011nissanleaf.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Because you can choose higher tire pressures, and (most of the year) have a warmer battery during your overnight "100%" recharge (do you park in a garage?) and (sometimes) will be at higher ambient while you drive, you would get somewhat longer range most of the year than these results:

CONSTANT-SPEED RANGE AND CHARGE TESTING

85.9 (miles at) 45-mph
65.3 (miles at) 60-mph
52.8 (miles at) 70-mph

So if you really will have a 72 mile commute entirely at "freeway" speed of 65 mph, you would need to recharge consistently, and I'd suggest you probably won't want a LEAF.

Of course, virtually no one drives 72 miles anywhere in the Bay Area at a constant speed.

How many of those 72 miles are off-freeway, and at what speed?

What is your current average speed (or how many minutes does your commute typically take, each way) now?

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

I want to lease a 2014 Nissan Leaf SV with Quick Charge option ASAP, but from reading all the blogs, I am really unable to determine if it will work for my commute. I am worried about leasing the car and then finding out that it won't work for me. I could really use some advice.

I commute 36-miles each way from San Jose, CA to Redwood City, CA (in Northern California) for a total of 72 miles per day. Speeds may vary depending on traffic, but since I will be able to ride in the car pool lane, I imagine I will be driving close to the speed limit (65 MPH), although there may be intermittent slowing. Temperatures will usually get only as low as 40sF in the winters and as high as 80sF (during times I commute). At least in the summers, I definitely need to be running the A/C and may run the heater in the winter depending on the temperature.

I DO NOT have the ability to charge at work during the day. Therefore, I am wondering if the Leaf would work for me with only the 240V charging overnight at home. I am planning to charge the battery at 100% and want to factor in running the A/C in the summers, and heater in the winter to see if the leaf might be able to handle the 72 mile round trip commute. I would great appreciate any thoughts.

Simply, no. Relying on the vehicle giving you 72 miles consistently including air conditioning and highway driving is simply out of the question, and it will become even more unreasonable as the battery starts to lose range, which it can do even after a year (although its loss of range will be very mild, it's still measurable).

Relying on charge stations out of your way will become incredibly annoying and tiresome very quickly.

Wait until the Leaf's range is 50% better than it is today, or get a Model S. Or a Volt or a Prius.

I think your feelings on the Rav4 EV are spot on. It's got the old style because Toyota doesn't really care and it's a compliance vehicle.

 

[Becky50]

I live in San Jose and absolutely love my one and a half year old LEAF. However, I would recommend against your getting one unless you can charge at work. Today I returned home at LBW by driving south to Gilroy on 101. Rain, wind, no heater, but a little defrost caused a big drain on what is usually a pleasant range anxiety free trip. I left SJ with 100% charge. You do not want to be dealing with range anxiety during a work day. I enjoy the proliferation of LEAFs in this area but do not want to encourage anyone who might become a dissatisfied owner/leasee.