Any used LEAFs for sale yet?

[Stunt822]

Wondering, if anyone is selling a Leaf yet? Any bet on when we'll see them appearing on "Craigslist"?

And what would be the price you (as buyer) would be ready to pay for gently used Leaf ?

 

[TomT]

Considering that the seller would have to forfeit any rebates or tax credits, it's probably not likely for a while... Personally, I wouldn't even be willing to pay anywhere near msrp since I, as the buyer, would also not get any of those rebates or incentives...

Wondering, if anyone is selling a Leaf yet? Any bet on when we'll see them appearing on "Craigslist"?

And what would be the price you (as buyer) would be ready to pay for gently used Leaf ?

 

[Stunt822]

I'm still looking, but i don't believe credit is repayeble (like first time homebuyer was) so you don't have to own car for any crtain time.
At least for this theoretical question - we can assume so

 

[DaveEV]

Wondering, if anyone is selling a Leaf yet? Any bet on when we'll see them appearing on "Craigslist"?

Reeler was (has?). Though for some reason his posts related to it are missing. I suspect that they were deleted.

 

[SteveInSeattle]

This raises an interesting question: The Federal Tax credit clearly states that the car must be purchased to be placed into service and not for resale. However, I've never heard of a definition of "placed into service". I assume that how long you must own the car for it to be considered "placed into service" remains vague. On one hand I can imagine that if you sell too soon you could have the IRS rule you are not eligible for the credit (should you be audited). But, maybe they mean that wholesalers are not eligible, only retail customers and there is no minimum term of ownership. What do others think? Anyone have anything from IRS code to go on here?

 

[aqn]

This raises an interesting question: The Federal Tax credit clearly states that the car must be purchased to be placed into service and not for resale. However, I've never heard of a definition of "placed into service". I assume that how long you must own the car for it to be considered "placed into service" remains vague.

There is absolutely no specifcation of what "not for resale" mean. There is an explicit specification that "original use of the vehicle commences with the taxpayer": Internal Revenue Bulletin: 2009-48, New Qualified Plug-in Electric Drive Motor Vehicle Credit.

If I buy a Leaf, drive the car for one day, then sell it, I'm OK.

There is also no specification that the credit has to be given back. But why should there be? It's not like I can sell my Leaf and get back more than the net amount that I paid for it. If the car costs X and the credit is Y, who the heck would want to buy my used Leaf for more than X - Y if they can get a brand new Leaf for X - Y?

The only way used Leaf's would go for more than X - Y is if the Leaf turns out to be The Next "It" Car and everybody and his Paris Hilton has got to have one now and they can't deal with the waiting list BS.

 

[Stunt822]

Great thanks for link. Saved it for future.

I didn't find end date for credit, other than 200 000 cars sold? looks like 2011 will be 20 000 cars. Maybe another 40 000 in 2012. Wow, we have a while.

I'm ofcourse worry about resale value. What is Leaf? cash-toilet or car that can hold value? Unlike some guys out there, i don't have a cash bag with extra $25k to support an idea. But I like Leaf. I would rather buy a 2 year old used car, if price would drop to $16k or so.

 

[LEAFguy]

I would rather buy a 2 year old used car, if price would drop to $16k or so.

36 month leases are being written with residual in the high 40% range (banks guess of future value). MSRP ~$33,000. Residual ~$14,850 ($33,000 X 45%) in 36 months. $16k is probably a little low for a 2 year old LEAF. Then again, much of the country will just be getting them then. Price could be higher there if supply is tight.

 

[Stunt822]

I would count from MSRP after rebates (everyone is getting those). So from ~$25k it's more like 60%. But I think lease estimate is a best one for now.
I'm new to leasing - would market value of cars normally be less or more than lease residual?

 

[evnow]

I'm new to leasing - would market value of cars normally be less or more than lease residual?

American auto companies really abused the lease to push sales. They'd use high residual to lower lease cost. One of the reasons they got into trouble as resale price of guzzlers plummeted.

Leaf's price would depend on things like oil price, battery capacity etc. Difficult to predict.

 

[LEAFfan]

I would count from MSRP after rebates (everyone is getting those). So from ~$25k it's more like 60%. But I think lease estimate is a best one for now.

Not everyone is getting a rebate. CA has a $5K rebate, but the fed one is not a rebate, it's a tax credit...big difference. So actually, not that many people will get the fed tax credit if they buy, but would get the whole amount if they lease.

 

[planet4ever]

If I buy a Leaf, drive the car for one day, then sell it, I'm OK. There is also no specification that the credit has to be given back.

Well, of course, at that point you won't have been given the credit in the first place! My guess is that if you no longer own the vehicle at the end of the tax year in which you buy it, the IRS computers are going to flag your return, and you are going to have to do some explaining in order to get the credit at all. There will, of course, be explanations that the IRS will accept. They might range from "my wife hated it" to "the car was totaled."

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

trust me on this. when gas hits $4.25 a gallon, someone will get greedy or be forced by a change in finances and we will see Leafs selling for $40,000 used without the tax credit

 

[derkraut]

trust me on this. when gas hits $4.25 a gallon, someone will get greedy or be forced by a change in finances and we will see Leafs selling for $40,000 used without the tax credit

Not far down the road either, IMHO. I filled up the Prius yesterday @ $3.79 for 87 octane. Price will probably go up again before the weekend. I guess Ghadafi must have been supplying gasoline to the San Diego area, eh? :x :x :x :x :x

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

trust me on this. when gas hits $4.25 a gallon, someone will get greedy or be forced by a change in finances and we will see Leafs selling for $40,000 used without the tax credit

Not far down the road either, IMHO. I filled up the Prius yesterday @ $3.79 for 87 octane. Price will probably go up again before the weekend. I guess Ghadafi must have been supplying gasoline to the San Diego area, eh? :x :x :x :x :x

i work with people who are currently paying more than $50 a week for gas. i am paying $8 a week to drive my Leaf. granted, dont have the commute they do, but that does not seem to make them feel any better

 

[kmp647]

there is a Nissan dealer in Nashville tn offering a leaf for $35,600 vin ends in 328

silver car

shows up on autotrader

 

[LEAFguy]

If the car costs X and the credit is Y, who the heck would want to buy my used Leaf for more than X - Y if they can get a brand new Leaf for X - Y?

The guy that did not reserve last year, cannot order one, and wants one now.

 

[BrianSanDiego]

there is a Nissan dealer in Nashville tn offering a leaf for $35,600 vin ends in 328
silver car
shows up on autotrader

I just need a search, there are actually several Leaf's showing up as being available and for sale. None of them over 36k

 

[jcesare]

trust me on this. when gas hits $4.25 a gallon, someone will get greedy or be forced by a change in finances and we will see Leafs selling for $40,000 used without the tax credit

Not far down the road either, IMHO. I filled up the Prius yesterday @ $3.79 for 87 octane. Price will probably go up again before the weekend. I guess Ghadafi must have been supplying gasoline to the San Diego area, eh? :x :x :x :x :x

Ghadafi? No, just big oil. San Diegans pay the same price as Honolulu because there is no competition. All of the independents have left town. All the gasoline comes through a pipeline from LA and is upcharged. This has been investigated numerous times over the decades.

BTW Yesterday I paid $3.90/gal at Costco for premium. It cost $60+ for a fill up. I thought $4.00/gal was going to be here by July 4th. Now it looks like next week. Expect $5.00/gal by Labor Day.

 

[DaveEV]

Not far down the road either, IMHO. I filled up the Prius yesterday @ $3.79 for 87 octane. Price will probably go up again before the weekend. I guess Ghadafi must have been supplying gasoline to the San Diego area, eh? :x :x :x :x :x

Filled up my Prius last week for $3.75 - same station is now $3.81. Paid $4.01 for premium for my WRX this morning - almost $54! Luckily only fill up every other week but with the WRX costing about $0.19/mi in fuel alone (and it's due for about $1000 in maintenance) - the Prius is a bargain at about $0.09/mi in fuel. The Leaf (assuming 3 mi/kWh from the wall) even if I had to pay "top tier" electricity prices of $0.30/kWh would be similar to the Prius in fuel costs. And at $0.10/kWh off-peak ($0.03/mi) it's almost like driving for free compared to the WRX!

If only the Leaf drove more like the WRX then it'd be perfect. Come on Nissan - how about another 50 kW of power? :twisted: