Are you sorry you bought a Leaf?

[HIOJim]

...I'd like to see that poll, at $4 a gallon.

I saw a station advertising $3.99 for regular this morning, and it's not even May yet. And I don't live in California. It's going to be a rough summer...

 

[chuck58]

The original question became lost in all the peripheral posts and sub discussions among members.
Really the Leaf only has a one way range of 40 +/- miles since you must return home to charge it. That limits the car's usefulness to a small section of the population honestly.
I agree with the observation that the range must be improved if it is to have a large market penetration. People are living farther away from their jobs, often having a 40-50 mile one way trip on Interstate highways.
The range has to be comparable to an ICE and charging must be more convenient and rapid.
If this doesn't happen the car will remain a niche player. Plug in hybrids may be the way most people opt.
Yes the EV faithful are 100% behind the Leaf despite obvious shortcomings.
You have to start somewhere, so I applaud the initial adopters of the car.

 

[ERG4ALL]

I use the LEAF for 50+ mile round trips with an 80% charge over many hills and half that distance is done at 60 mph. A lot depends on how you drive. I use ECO almost all the time and find that the drivability is just fine.

 

[TRONZ]

...I'd like to see that poll, at $4 a gallon.

I saw a station advertising $3.99 for regular this morning, and it's not even May yet. And I don't live in California. It's going to be a rough summer...

Here in SoCal it's $4.39, $4.49, $4.59 and $4.69 for Diesel. I figure it will have 5's in front of them by July.

 

[Stoaty]

Really the Leaf only has a one way range of 40 +/- miles since you must return home to charge it. That limits the car's usefulness to a small section of the population honestly.
I agree with the observation that the range must be improved if it is to have a large market penetration. People are living farther away from their jobs, often having a 40-50 mile one way trip on Interstate highways.

This is a lot of bunk. For the last time, 90% of the population has a commute less than or equal to 40 miles one way:

http://www.bts.gov/publications/omnistats/volume_03_issue_04/html/figure_02.html

It doesn't matter what you believe anecdotally. The data is there.

 

[DarkStar]

Really the Leaf only has a one way range of 40 +/- miles since you must return home to charge it. That limits the car's usefulness to a small section of the population honestly.
I agree with the observation that the range must be improved if it is to have a large market penetration. People are living farther away from their jobs, often having a 40-50 mile one way trip on Interstate highways.

This is a lot of bunk. For the last time, 90% of the population has a commute less than or equal to 40 miles one way:

http://www.bts.gov/publications/omnistats/volume_03_issue_04/html/figure_02.html

It doesn't matter what you believe anecdotally. The data is there.

And like my car isn't just sitting there at work for 9 hours a day... :roll:

 

[LakeLeaf]

It may be more likely that gasoline at $8/gallon would slow people down, and I don't think that's likely soon.

I like your post, but am not sure about this part. Certainly around me $4.50 a gallon gas hasn't slowed anyone down. At $8.00 a gallon - I think you'd see less drivers on the road, but I'm not sure those out there would be driving any slower.

Me? Call me Mr. Speed Limit. I've got no place to go, so no need to get there fast. Besides - I live in the middle of seven (7) police jurisdictions - and they all have really good radars.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Certainly around me $4.50 a gallon gas hasn't slowed anyone down. At $8.00 a gallon - I think you'd see less drivers on the road, but I'm not sure those out there would be driving any slower..

Gas was about $9/gallon in Italy, when I was there last month, and everybody drove REALLY fast... scary fast. Lots of tiny cars, but the bigger BMW / Mercedes / Audi type cars also. Not a single American car :?

 

[Herm]

People like to drive fast and they will adapt:

1. drive shorter distances.. who cares how much gas is if your town is only 5 miles across?
2. drive tiny cars.. and many not so tiny cars are today getting 40mpg+, compared to the typical US fleet car that gets 22mpg that is like gas at $2 a gallon.. a bargain!
3. Get a Prius or a Leaf. The Prius gets excellent mileage even if you speed, and the Prius is larger and accelerates faster than the typical european car. I see many more Priuses speeding on the hwy than hypermiling.

I hear this argument a lot... since my commute is 40 miles one way, and since I am not an aberrant person, everyone's else commute must be the same. I guess no one works at home or is retired.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

The original question became lost in all the peripheral posts and sub discussions among members.

no argument there

Really the Leaf only has a one way range of 40 +/- miles since you must return home to charge it. That limits the car's usefulness to a small section of the population honestly.

so the question is now "Are You Sorry the Leaf Will Not Cover 100% of Your Driving Needs?"

 

[ERG4ALL]

So you don't like your LEAF? Find it too small, not enough range? Then try one of these.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6EFJ3862Ys.

 

[starry]

My LEAF, after attempting to charge it the first three times I had it at home, boiled like a teakettle under the hood. "StanLEAF the Steamer" is currently in the shop for the second time, having its guts (main battery) removed. The techs are trying to find why the heater unit turns on (without fan in cabin) when charging. Maybe they can replace some control unit. The first service session was for "burping" the air out of the HV inverter coolant lines (??).
Out of the forty hours in the last eight days that I have owned this electric car, I have driven it almost 100 miles myself, mostly back and forth to dealers. Am I sorry I bought a LEAF? Not sure yet.
Gregg

 

[EricH]

Gas was about $9/gallon in Italy, when I was there last month, and everybody drove REALLY fast... scary fast. Lots of tiny cars, but the bigger BMW / Mercedes / Audi type cars also. Not a single American car :?

We just got back from Italy - rented cars for a week to drive from Rome to Tuscany. Agree on the fuel price ($75 for 3/4 tank in a compact!), but the Fiat Panda's got really good mileage. Standard freeway speeds were 110-120 kph (about 70 mph), with some super-fast traffic passing everyone else.
Also, since nearly every car on the road is small (even the trucks are way smaller than what you see here in the US), I felt far safer there in the tiny 4-door Fiat than I would over here, because 95% of the potential collision objects are the same size as you are. Many years of high fuel prices have meant that large cars (not to mention automatic transmissions) are about as common in Europe as Fiats are over here. Yes, a few Audi's/Mercedes/BMW's flew by us on the Autostrada, but we rarely saw them on the smaller country roads.

 

[Fabio]

For a real thrill, you should have headed south towards Naples. Even for someone who grew up driving in Sicily, each time I went through Campania I was always glad to make it through in one piece.

We just got back from Italy - rented cars for a week to drive from Rome to Tuscany. Agree on the fuel price ($75 for 3/4 tank in a compact!), but the Fiat Panda's got really good mileage. Standard freeway speeds were 110-120 kph (about 70 mph), with some super-fast traffic passing everyone else.

 

[tps]

The range has to be comparable to an ICE

On average, I get about 8 days of driving out of each tankful of gas. Of course, this is with some reserve; I don't drive until I run out, but this gives me a bit more than 300 miles range. With the LEAF I'll get up to 100 miles a charge. I could likely do 2 days on each charge and still have some reserve. This was borne out when I rented a LEAF from Hertz in NYC, drove it a bit further than my normal daily commute, and still had about 1/2 of the charge remaining when I was through. For me, the only change the LEAF will require to my normal routine is to plug it in every night at home instead of going to the gas station periodically. (And I'll be paying far less for the electricity than I currently pay for the gas.) I think I can easily live with less range than my current ICE car.

That said, I'd probably not want an EV with less range than the LEAF until the charging infrastructure is built out a bit more, as I do occasionally make trips which will push the LEAFs range. So the iMiev with a 16 kWh battery is probably not right for me. I might be willing to pay extra if Nissan offered a 32 kWh battery.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

if you are interested, i track mileage on Prius and Leaf and when i got my Leaf i timed the amount of time it took for both

in the 9 weeks i did it

went to gas station 6 times measured time from my detour from my work commute (Costco is on the corner of Marvin and Martin Way in Olympia. i commute on Marvin Road so the detour is about 200 yards)

i spent average 323 seconds getting gas but the detour took another 297 seconds (traffic is HELL at 5 PM and is one of the busiest areas in town)

i spent another 267 seconds recording the data
and approximately 240 seconds transferring data into Office Calc

total time 4227 seconds.

in the Leaf; time to fillup averaged about umm 10 seconds (on a slow day) i did not time every event, but did do about 4 or 5 test plug ins and took the average. i actually added about 2 seconds as to actually take 10 seconds i kinda had to plod along...

so for the 62 days it was 620 seconds. i also recorded miles driven and reset trip B daily, trip A weekly and MPK on the energy screen daily. that took about 12 seconds so that adds another 744 seconds

transfering data to Calc took 880 seconds using an estimate of 40 seconds per session

so Leaf time 2244 seconds

 

[Desertstraw]

The original question became lost in all the peripheral posts and sub discussions among members.
Really the Leaf only has a one way range of 40 +/- miles since you must return home to charge it. That limits the car's usefulness to a small section of the population honestly.
I agree with the observation that the range must be improved if it is to have a large market penetration. People are living farther away from their jobs, often having a 40-50 mile one way trip on Interstate highways.
The range has to be comparable to an ICE and charging must be more convenient and rapid.
If this doesn't happen the car will remain a niche player. Plug in hybrids may be the way most people opt.
Yes the EV faithful are 100% behind the Leaf despite obvious shortcomings.
You have to start somewhere, so I applaud the initial adopters of the car.

Why does everybody ignore the fact that BYD has now proved a range of 160 miles with quick charging and no battery deterioration? BYD is one of the biggest battery manufacturers in the world and it is almost certain that their improved battery will be sold or licensed around the world, they are working with Mercedes now. The days of the nominal 100 mile range, more like a dependable 70, are limited. With a 160 mile range and quick chargers along highways, electric cars will soon be a feasible only car choice for most people.

 

[BlueSL]

Why does everybody ignore the fact that BYD has now proved a range of 160 miles with quick charging and no battery deterioration? BYD is one of the biggest battery manufacturers in the world and it is almost certain that their improved battery will be sold or licensed around the world, they are working with Mercedes now. The days of the nominal 100 mile range, more like a dependable 70, are limited. With a 160 mile range and quick chargers along highways, electric cars will soon be a feasible only car choice for most people.

Yes, the goalposts moved before Nissan got 3000 Leafs delivered in the U.S. It is going to be VERY interesting.

 

[idunk]

The original question became lost in all the peripheral posts and sub discussions among members.
Really the Leaf only has a one way range of 40 +/- miles since you must return home to charge it. That limits the car's usefulness to a small section of the population honestly.
I agree with the observation that the range must be improved if it is to have a large market penetration. People are living farther away from their jobs, often having a 40-50 mile one way trip on Interstate highways.
The range has to be comparable to an ICE and charging must be more convenient and rapid.
If this doesn't happen the car will remain a niche player. Plug in hybrids may be the way most people opt.
Yes the EV faithful are 100% behind the Leaf despite obvious shortcomings.
You have to start somewhere, so I applaud the initial adopters of the car.

Why does everybody ignore the fact that BYD has now proved a range of 160 miles with quick charging and no battery deterioration? BYD is one of the biggest battery manufacturers in the world and it is almost certain that their improved battery will be sold or licensed around the world, they are working with Mercedes now. The days of the nominal 100 mile range, more like a dependable 70, are limited. With a 160 mile range and quick chargers along highways, electric cars will soon be a feasible only car choice for most people.

Off the top of my head BYD makes LiFePO4 (Iron phosphate) batteries. They are inherently more tolerant to faster charges and discharges. The downside is that they are heavier and bulkier. If I am not wrong, iron phosphate cells cost more too. So, you have different trade-offs when you design a car with these cells vs. the cells used in the LEAF or the cells used in the Tesla.

 

[Desertstraw]

The original question became lost in all the peripheral posts and sub discussions among members.
Really the Leaf only has a one way range of 40 +/- miles since you must return home to charge it. That limits the car's usefulness to a small section of the population honestly.
I agree with the observation that the range must be improved if it is to have a large market penetration. People are living farther away from their jobs, often having a 40-50 mile one way trip on Interstate highways.
The range has to be comparable to an ICE and charging must be more convenient and rapid.
If this doesn't happen the car will remain a niche player. Plug in hybrids may be the way most people opt.
Yes the EV faithful are 100% behind the Leaf despite obvious shortcomings.
You have to start somewhere, so I applaud the initial adopters of the car.

Why does everybody ignore the fact that BYD has now proved a range of 160 miles with quick charging and no battery deterioration? BYD is one of the biggest battery manufacturers in the world and it is almost certain that their improved battery will be sold or licensed around the world, they are working with Mercedes now. The days of the nominal 100 mile range, more like a dependable 70, are limited. With a 160 mile range and quick chargers along highways, electric cars will soon be a feasible only car choice for most people.

Off the top of my head BYD makes LiFePO4 (Iron phosphate) batteries. They are inherently more tolerant to faster charges and discharges. The downside is that they are heavier and bulkier. If I am not wrong, iron phosphate cells cost more too. So, you have different trade-offs when you design a car with these cells vs. the cells used in the LEAF or the cells used in the Tesla.

"The benefits of the BYD Fe design is that the materials used in its cells cost less and are more readily recyclable than competitive batteries using materials such as cobalt."