Battery Degradation of a high mileage Leaf

[SageBrush]

Only I might need to make it throw a DTC: Nissan makes you go through loopholes, I saw enough YouTube videos on this in the weekend. One guy from Canada, kept erasing his DTC...

But that's exactly what would make my position stronger: once they DTC is there, they can't deny anymore that my battery pack doesn't have problems. If they then would keep denying, I can open a dispute for € 127 but I guess that won't be needed.

In N.A (and now that I think about it, the UK too) the stories are consistent that Nissan requires a DTC. I'll be very, very surprised if your car throws a DTC in the next 4 months. Turtle is not an automatic DTC -- far from it. The easiest cases of Nissan honoring the defect warranty in these cases of weak cells causing loss of range at low SoC is when only one cell is weak. When more cells are weak the Nissan algo is weighted to calculate the problem as one of general pack aging and then a DTC is not thrown.

You think you have insight into your pack's problems and how the warranty will play out. Keep in touch, and let us know how things end.

P.s., IIRC, there is a reputable company in the Netherlands that does remedial Nissan LEAF pack repair and replacement. Your car might be a good candidate for replacement of a module or two. The company name escapes me but it should not be too hard to track down.
Addendum: Muxsan. Another choice might be Elbilmek in Oslo

 

[Oostenrijker]

P.s., IIRC, there is a reputable company in the Netherlands that does remedial Nissan LEAF pack repair and replacement. Your car might be a good candidate for replacement of a module or two. The company name escapes me but it should not be too hard to track down.
Addendum: Muxsan. Another choice might be Elbilmek in Oslo

That's to expensive: it's cheaper to trade it in, for a lower mileage Leaf. But that's the last solution. Have you ever heard of the German Autobahn? One is allowed, to drive as fast as one wants.

My dealership is just behind the German borders, so if I make it throw a DTC around there? Then they can tow me straight to de dealership.



The way my battery pack is acting, I think it won't take very long anymore for a DTC. But for that to happen, I need to step out of my comfort zone. It doesn't come natural to me, to drive a longer period of time as fast as the car can go.

So I will just need to do it: there isn't much to lose anymore, considering the car depreciated that much in value, after only owning it for a little longer than half a year.

But I think, the best chance of getting a DTC is on a cold day. That means no charging for a couple of days, because charging heats up the pack. And that's exactly why in summer it wasn't so obvious.

Only now I see, that the weak cells might have dragged down other cells as well: so it's only getting worse, and I haven't really been abusing the car. In general I drive like a grandpa.

Hopefully all of this won't be needed, because I'm already in a dispute with the Nissan dealership. I have heard stories, where a DTC wasn't needed or was never threw. Still these people had battery issues. But in that case, you need show that the dash SoC is acting up.

 

[SageBrush]

That's too expensive:

Don't ask for a pack replacement, ask about replacement of a module or two. If you share your LeafSpy cell voltage histogram with them, they will know what is needed. You can expect to pay the labor charges of a full pack replacement, but the pack charges will be quite a bit less because you are only replacing 1/12 to 1/24 of a pack.

PSA: Best to not call them with an arrogant, pseudo know-it-all attitude. For one, you do not; and second, it annoys the people you want help from. Just tell them how the car is behaving, offer to send the LeafSpy data, and ask what they can do for you.

 

[Oostenrijker]

Don't ask for a pack replacement, ask about replacement of a module or two. If you share your LeafSpy cell voltage histogram with them, they will know what is needed. You can expect to pay the labor charges of a full pack replacement, but the pack charges will be quite a bit less because you are only replacing 1/12 to 1/24 of a pack.

PSA: Best to not call them with an arrogant, pseudo know-it-all attitude. For one, you do not; and second, it annoys the people you want help from. Just tell them how the car is behaving, offer to send the LeafSpy data, and ask what they can do for you.

I think you seem to be understanding one thing not very well? The used car warranty, which I guess isn't a thing in N.A that's Canada?!

Makes it, that I won't need to pay a single penny. Once the DTC would be there, my case would be quite strong as well if I need to go to the geschillencommissie auto. I basically figured out, when starting any legal process. Then I would need the car to have the DTC!

They need to solve this issue, and making me go through loopholes isn't making things better. There isn't a point to send Leafspy data, I will just stick with what I told them. The dash SoC acting up.

No need for them to know, I'm actively using Leafspy Pro to monitor the battery pack. Because they don't accept it anyway. So I stopped doing it...

 

[Oostenrijker]

Oh sorry, you where talking about Muxsan? I would never make use of any of his services, because one he is expensive and two he requires one to pay in front.

If his business goes bankrupt, you won't have your money anymore. So for me this is just a aftersales case, and I ain't going do any repairs on it.

Also I ain't going demand a new pack: I just want the issue solved, I don't care how? Money back? Repair the pack? Pack replacement? Exchange for another Leaf? There are many solutions.

But this is an aftersales case, of which I'm making use of my consumer rights on buying a used car. They are very strong in the Netherlands. Once I know the outcome, I will share it.

 

[Oostenrijker]

This high mileage Leaf, is turning me literally nuts: I'm in the autism spectrum, maybe some already noticed? So I tend to obsess about things. And that's the case with this high mileage Leaf probably as well?

Yesterday I have gotten a reply back from the dealership: basically they are saying, nothing is wrong with the battery pack and these dash SoC jumping up and down. Is supposed to be normal, with this mileage.

I still argue, that it isn't normal. But they told me, that they still want to offer a solution for my problem. They suggested to trade it, for another Nissan Leaf with same trim. But lower mileage. And I kinda agreed to that, but stating some own terms.

In the mean time, actually I'm breaking down mentally. This morning I had to go to work, at 8am and just before work. I realised, that an 62kWh wouldn't be an option. That would mean having to pay the subsidy, I had gotten from the government.

All of a sudden, this subsidy gave me even more stress. Now I needed to think about that as well. And as long the car does not throw a DTC, then I'm 100% sure they Nissan dealership won't acknowledge my battery issues I'm experiencing. I keep seeing the dash SoC jump down in several seconds, and then come back again.



Because I'm a man of my word: I went a tried one more time, to go on the Autobahn. But I think it was to warm today with 10 degree Celsius, because yes I saw the voltage difference go up to almost 400mV. But later it went down as well. As soon when I reach the top speed of the car, it stayed around 200mV.

To be honest: currently I think, I'm a quite bad mental state. Couldn't even start my work this morning. Normally I would see this as a signal, to get rid of the car right away. But it depreciated so much in only 9 months, so I don't have many other options then taking their offer.

I just think, that I have my say in negotiation about that. If I end up paying only € 3500 or max € 5000 as they stated? That would still be better, than go and trade it in at any other car dealer. Trade in value, is only € 9000 and a lower mileage 40kWh Tekna is at least € 18.000 but it might be a 2020.

Should I still call them? I'm not good in making calls, but one doesn't hear my anger or emotions when sending emails. Yes I expressed, that I'm a bad mental state due to this stress. But actually I'm sure, the battery pack isn't in a good condition anymore.

The only thing I'm not sure about: when would be D-Day, if I would decide to continue driving with this Nissan Leaf anyway? I'm sure the length of the life of the battery pack, can be stretched. But avoiding fast charging, going lower then 10% isn't possible.

If this was an ICE car: then I probably wouldn't have cared so much, but replacing the battery pack is so expensive. That I feel, if I got this kind of information from a expert. Saying the battery pack requires a repair in the near, future. Then I feel I should get rid of it as soon as I can.

 

[Oostenrijker]

After one final test, in the cold: to document my battery problems, the dealership finally came to an agreement with me. No I ain't getting a new battery: that was never my goal!

Instead, I wanted to exchange the Leaf: knowing this battery pack is beyond repair. Even the dealership indirectly saying so, because they said they could repair it. But sooner or later it would need a repair again.

I'm getting an 107.000km, same trim but facelift if I'm not mistaking and also 2019. I plan to keep the vehicle for at least three years, so if I average drive about 20.000km a year. Then after three years it would have still lesser km's then the previous one.

I will first have to check it with Leafspy though: after that Leafspy goes into a drawer, because its not good for ones mental health to keep checking it.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Well done!

 

[Oostenrijker]

Well done!

Took a lot of arguing with them, but I had setup a steering wheel phone number holder. Enabling me to record every single battery problem.



Here the weak cells: it drops from 8% to --%



And here is my Leaf at a battery temperature of like 2 degrees Celsius, driving in -2 Celsius. Losing power, and going from 32% to a point the car keeps telling me to charge.

So when I had a call with the dealership on Monday: all of a sudden, my battery problems weren't denied anymore. They said, exchange the car and then we will deal with the battery problems. Only before they wanted to charge me atleast € 4500 totally.

And there first offer was a 2018 Acenta, lowest trim: so no 360 degrees cameras, no Pro-Pilot etc. So I said no, but also kinda found out. It wasn't a fair trade, because my problems where still denied and I would have been even better of trying to sell it by myself and shopping for a 2018 Tekna or even a 2019 I found for € 15.500 but it was suspiciously long on sale ( since march 2023 ), so I said no and didn't have € 5500 anyways.

Those go for € 15.000 a € 16.000 used now, some with quite low mileage. A Tekna 2020 can be found at a non dealership, for about € 18.000 used already with again quite low mileage. But obviously, dealer sold used cars tend to be more expensive.

 

[GaleHawkins]

How often do you discharge down to 30% then charge to 100% to trigger the BMS cell balancing feature? If you do this a few cycles please post a graph at 100% State of Charge.

 

[Oostenrijker]

How often do you discharge down to 30% then charge to 100% to trigger the BMS cell balancing feature? If you do this a few cycles please post a graph at 100% State of Charge.

I did that a few times: basically that doesn't help a thing. About this top cell balancing, I have heard a lot. But when you look closely in Leafspy, it's balancing the battery pack no matter if you charge too 80% or 100%

And every time I did charge to 100% for a longer trip: still the weak cells showed, and I have ended up quite some times driving with range anxiety. Because once my dash SoC drops from 8% too --% within a minute? From that point, I have no idea how far I can still go. Because there is no range displayed anymore.

So I found it super scary, it gave me a lot of stress including mental problems: I'm in the autism spectrum, and actually I would want that there would be dealerships. Where I could buy an car, and that whenever I find a problem: that it gets taken seriously right away!

It's enormous stressful for me, too have to fight for my rights: they aren't offering me to trade the car, because of goodwill. But because I actually have battery problems, with this car. And ofcourse, they ain't going repair it either. I can't say for sure, but I guess it's just going be sold to another car seller.

For that car seller: I would hope, he is able to sell it. Before the license plate, because visible in the YouTube video. Because I participated in a car program, that tests HV batteries from EV's. And it was at those recordings, I was told the bad news. So since December I had been in discussion, with the dealership about a solution.

When not needed, then ofcourse I dont go down to 30% as its better to charge timely. Because charging takes some time, and you never know when you need to drive.

 

[Astral]

Scary to see the battery drop like that. Anyway, it's just a car. Please take care about your mental health. Wish you the best.

 

[Oostenrijker]

Scary to see the battery drop like that. Anyway, it's just a car. Please take care about your mental health. Wish you the best.

That's what the sales manager said as well: but he probably makes like € 20 or € 30 an hour, whereas I only earn about € 12 an hour. So that's easy to say.

For me the financial loss, would have been to big: if I didn't take this issue seriously. Better to pay now some money, and exchange it to lower mileage. Which still has some battery warranty left.

Long enough, until I decide to shop for another EV: but who knows, if the one I'm getting now does good enough? Then I might keep it longer. Trade in value, might not be much anyways.

 

[GaleHawkins]

I did that a few times: basically that doesn't help a thing. About this top cell balancing, I have heard a lot. But when you look closely in Leafspy, it's balancing the battery pack no matter if you charge too 80% or 100%

And every time I did charge to 100% for a longer trip: still the weak cells showed, and I have ended up quite some times driving with range anxiety. Because once my dash SoC drops from 8% too --% within a minute? From that point, I have no idea how far I can still go. Because there is no range displayed anymore.

So I found it super scary, it gave me a lot of stress including mental problems: I'm in the autism spectrum, and actually I would want that there would be dealerships. Where I could buy an car, and that whenever I find a problem: that it gets taken seriously right away!

It's enormous stressful for me, too have to fight for my rights: they aren't offering me to trade the car, because of goodwill. But because I actually have battery problems, with this car. And ofcourse, they ain't going repair it either. I can't say for sure, but I guess it's just going be sold to another car seller.

For that car seller: I would hope, he is able to sell it. Before the license plate, because visible in the YouTube video. Because I participated in a car program, that tests HV batteries from EV's. And it was at those recordings, I was told the bad news. So since December I had been in discussion, with the dealership about a solution.

When not needed, then ofcourse I dont go down to 30% as its better to charge timely. Because charging takes some time, and you never know when you need to drive.

Sounds like it is beyond balancing.

Have you considered going back to an ICE vehicle for health reasons?

 

[Oostenrijker]

Sounds like it is beyond balancing.

Have you considered going back to an ICE vehicle for health reasons?

Yes, but financially it isn't an option: I received subsidy on this EV, and would have to pay it back if I would not trade it in to another EV. Also I can't buy back my previous car...

 

[Astral]

Consider a classic ioniq 28kwh. Very good car. If you can change the brand completely. Financially it should be similar to the Leaf 40kwh (which is actually 32kwh at most at this point if 5y old). Ioniq holds on to it's kwh much better.

 

[Oostenrijker]

Consider a classic ioniq 28kwh. Very good car. If you can change the brand completely. Financially it should be similar to the Leaf 40kwh (which is actually 32kwh at most at this point if 5y old). Ioniq holds on to it's kwh much better.

I did consider it: actually also looked for it, but that's no option financially. Obviously they didn't wanna give me cash, only trading the car to another Leaf and then paying € 3500 totally.

But I think, that's a fair deal: I looked into it's trading my car in for a classic Ioniq would mean paying atleast double. Trade in value of this high mileage Leaf, is really bad.

My next EV might not be a Nissan though. I like the Leaf, just didn't have a good experience with the state of the battery pack of this high mileage one.

 

[Oostenrijker]

This is the Leaf, replacing my high mileage Leaf. Finally the story came to an end! It's also an facelift, so bigger navigation screen.

 

[hornstudio]

Bigger screen means your abbonement with Nissan is gone. Above is "bettery"!

 

[Oostenrijker]

Bigger screen means your abbonement with Nissan is gone. Above is "bettery"!

I probably need to pay an subscription? Ah well, that doesn't really matter. There are other ways, so guess how full the battery is charged.

For every 10% I should just count one hour charging time, with a 11kW charger.