ttweed
Well-known member
Beside the solar panel, how is the Aux. 12V battery charged in normal usage? I don't think I've seen that anywhere. Is it topped off each time the EVSE charges the main battery pack?
TT
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Battery Standby Losses
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DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
my zenn draws about .14 amps when on trickle. that would be about hmm. 59 hours to burn a killowatt so we say ½ kwh /day. that would break me.
parting shot; dont really know what the Zenn draws but have to say, its been on the charger all night and that is what its reading right now. i guess i should pay closer attention to where all my money is going.
i am guessing that other "vampires" in my house (prelim investigation says i have about 14 or so) definitely adds up
parting shot; dont really know what the Zenn draws but have to say, its been on the charger all night and that is what its reading right now. i guess i should pay closer attention to where all my money is going.
i am guessing that other "vampires" in my house (prelim investigation says i have about 14 or so) definitely adds up
mitch672
Well-known member
ttweed said:
It is an unkwown, but most likely functions the same way as a Prius.
There is a DC-DC converter that converts the high voltage pack power to the low voltage 12V system, that is used to run the accessories, and also recharges the 12V battery. This inverter is typically only on when the car is on, that's how it works in a Prius, and I'm sure the Leaf will be no different. The Prius has no traditional "alternator" either, and the HV pack is used through the inverter to charge and power the 12V system(s).
when the car is off, the only thing drawing power in a Prius is the "smartkey" system, and the alarm system, as well as a small amount of power to keep the time on the audio system.
If you park a Prius for an extended amount of time (months), the 12V battery does sometimes need a "jump" before the car can be started, as the 12V battery is required to engage the high voltage relays to get the car going.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
mitch672 said:
many have reported that time to be as little as 10 days and the 2010 Prius is not the same since it will automatically go into vacation mode and reduce the SKS function which greatly reduces its power output
mitch672
Well-known member
DaveinOlyWA said:
Yes, I've owned all 3 generations of the Prius. I've only ever had an issue once, with my 2004 (Gen 2), and that was when the car was parked for more than a month. I've also had to replace the 12V AGM battery in my 2004, once, but that car I had for aimost 7 years...
charlie1300 said:
But Charlie,
In an ICE vehicle, you need massive amounts of current/energy from the battery in order to cold-crank the engine. In other words, the battery needs to be in "pretty good shape".
In an EV, the only requirement is that the voltage on the battery-terminals in steady state is higher than about 10.5V (or so). Even if the battery is nearly flat it will generally manage to supply the small amount of current (for a few seconds) in order to close the contactor. And once that is closed, the 12V battery will be charged from the traction batteries.
You could probably start the LEAF from a pack of 8 "C-cells"!
LEAFer
Well-known member
Who will be the first to tryNorway said:You could probably start the LEAF from a pack of 8 "C-cells"!
LEAFer said:Who will be the first to tryNorway said:You could probably start the LEAF from a pack of 8 "C-cells"!
The first electronic engineer with a flat 12V battery! ;-)
Seriously, I had a bad 12V battery on my EV, and all I needed to do was attach a very small 12V charger, and it started instantly. No need to "charge" up the battery for 30 minutes, as there is no startermotor needing 100A to crank!
planet4ever
Well-known member
We've had the problem with our 2006 Prius any time we let it sit for 2 weeks or more. A chunk of that power is going to communicate with GuidePoint Systems, which tracks the vehicle's location. If the battery goes dead they call us to ask what is wrong!DaveinOlyWA said:
mitch672
Well-known member
planet4ever said:
yes, and isn't "guidepoint" a 3rd party add-on vehicle locater? This is not a factory option, so no wonder you had an issue. This is the same issue you would have if you added a "lo-jack" system as well, which steals power from the 12V battery.
http://guidepointsystems.com/index.shtml
EVDRIVER
Well-known member
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- Apr 24, 2010
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How long can the 12V battery topic be rehashed? EVs have DC/DC converters that charge the 12V battery, all you need is a couple amps to close the contactor and they car is functional. Anyone can find a basic EV wiring diagram with little effort, the basic systems all work about the same. Once the car is off the parasitic loads are the same as a normal ICE car with the same accessories or features for the most part.
planet4ever
Well-known member
I don't know whether it would be called a 3rd party add-on, but I know it was on the car when we purchased it. It could have been installed by the dealer, but I had the impression it was integrated with the navigation system.mitch672 said:
Update: I can't find any reference to it in the navigation documentation, so I guess it must be something the dealer added on. I will say that Toyota replaced the battery once for us when we complained (but at that point it was only taking a few days to go dead).
Coffee_Slurry
Well-known member
For people who really ARE going to leave the Leaf unturned for months, I have to say that I've had bad luck with the Battery Tender Jr. (I have had two fail.)
I am very happy with the superior CTEK US 800 charger. I leave it connected year-round on some motorcycles and spare batteries, and it does a great job of either charging or floating the battery.
http://amzn.com/B002QUT8IC
I am very happy with the superior CTEK US 800 charger. I leave it connected year-round on some motorcycles and spare batteries, and it does a great job of either charging or floating the battery.
http://amzn.com/B002QUT8IC
ttweed
Well-known member
+1 for the CTEK chargers. I have used the larger 7000 series CTEK for years on all my vehicles. They have very "smart" charging circuitry and modes for every type of battery. A very good product, IMHO. Not the cheapest solution, but reliable, compact, and high quality.GroundLoop said:
TT
Nubo
Well-known member
As for long-term parking, for what it's worth our presenter at the Drive-Electric Tour in San Jose claimed VERY low self-discharge, on the order of 1 percent after a month. Sounded incredible to me, but that's what he claimed.
Coffee_Slurry
Well-known member
I don't know if the Leaf cells are magical in this regard, but I know it's considered Bad to store Lithium-Polymer batteries at 100% charge for an extended period.
Ideally around 30-70% charge for storage, lest the pack suffer premature failure.
In the R/C community, with much smaller more aggressive LiPo packs, this is taken as gospel. Most folks won't let packs sit more than 24 hours at full charge.
I wonder what would last longer -- a Leaf parked on the L2 nipple for a year, or one driven daily?
Ideally around 30-70% charge for storage, lest the pack suffer premature failure.
In the R/C community, with much smaller more aggressive LiPo packs, this is taken as gospel. Most folks won't let packs sit more than 24 hours at full charge.
I wonder what would last longer -- a Leaf parked on the L2 nipple for a year, or one driven daily?
planet4ever
Well-known member
But the LEAF's battery is never charged to 100%. Probably no more than 90%. How bad is it to store lithium batteries at 90%?GroundLoop said:
Better than 100%, but still worse than something lower.planet4ever said:
This page has lots of information on typical Lithium batteries - they do not apply directly to the specific chemistry used in the Leaf, but give you a general idea.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
lemketron
Well-known member
For people who really ARE going to leave the LEAF unturned for months, I have to say they should find someone else to drive the car while they're away.GroundLoop said:
Why on earth would you buy a brand-new LEAF and then let it sit somewhere for months?
Regarding leaving the car at the airport while you travel, there are some other threads here (which I was searching for to see what people were saying) which point out that LAX and other airports (including, it turns out, SFO, OAK, and SJC) offer free EV parking with charging even. I think most of them are referring to EV1/RAV4 inductive charging, but I believe some also have a regular L1 (110V) outlet -- which is all you probably need if you're going to be gone for a few days. And since it's free, you save $10-$15 per day by not having to pay for long-term parking!
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