Being a Nissan LEAF owner sounds pretty stressful...

[jspearman]

Despite my frustration with the battery issue here in Phoenix, I love driving the Leaf, and I don't plan to buy another ICE every again. That said, I will never buy another EV without a thermal management system for its battery, unless I move to Hawaii, so another Leaf is out of the question unless things change.

I don't recall my dealer mentioning capacity loss or charging to 80%, although I had read this in the forums before buying the car. They did, however, offer free oil changes in their sales packet.

We drive it like a normal car--no hypermiling. The only problem with the car is that you occasionally scare (or delight) a pedestrian who doesn't hear the car coming. I've nearly hit two people in parking lots who I didn't see and they didn't hear.

I would definitley not buy a Leaf in a warmer climate at this point, and would lease, although I don't think we could have leased the car because of the number of miles we drive. A Tesla dealer is opening in Scottsdale if you feel the need to buy an EV in Phoenix in the immediate future.

 

[Christopher]

And it's not really that bad to charge to 100%. Just try not to leave it at 100% for too long, especially in hot weather.

I think that would have been my biggest issue.

I work from home in sales and sometimes I don't leave the house at all and other times I drive around 40-70 miles in one day depending on who I have to go see. In my mind, I would have plugged in the car in nightly and charged to 100% in case I had one of those 70 mile days as they are not that predictable. I do have a second car at my disposal (wife also works from home) which I planned to use if needed, but would of still wanted the LEAF ready to go with 100% charge at the start of every day.

Yeah, I have a non-predictable driving schedule as well. So I leave the timer set up to charge overnight to 80% every night. If it turns out that I want/need to go further afield than just around Santa Cruz (like over the hill to Silicon Valley), I'll hit the button on the car or remotely via the app to override the timer — potentially the night before or even before getting out of bed. It only takes a little over an hour or so to top up. Even if I have to go right away, I can likely plan on stopping somewhere for a meal coming or going and top up then.

But yeah, I've often wondered if some of the data and planning-intensive discussions on this thread discourage potential buyers. Charts and graphs, range-lookup sheets and GIDs (and acronyms), data collection and display devices, and all that just around measuring and analyzing range! But hey, deep-ending is what goes on in owners forums. ;-) Personally, I'm fine with the 12 increment battery gauge and I think the estimated range is still useful — and necessary for new drivers, despite its limitations. A percentage display wouldn't hurt either as too many new folk take the range estimation as a measure of battery charge. A couple hundred more miles of range will make all the concern moot though!

As for the 80% recommendation for extended battery longevity, yeah, it's in the manual. It's also apparently recommended for the Tesla Roadster and Model S, for what that's worth. Though at least you don't have to go through a somewhat involved timer configuration to do it. I end up unnecessarily charging to 100% in my LEAF when away from home at times because of the timer override button and how.... ha! There I go about to deep-end, and start in on a gripe... ;-)

So never mind, just get in and drive! And have fun tooling around on electricity! And bring along any charts and gadgets and whatnot that make you happy! ;-)

 

[ebill3]

As a "never want to see the low fuel warning light ICE guy", I was stressed once. Shortly after getting the car, I was down to two bars and ten miles from home.

That was then.

No more stress, happy and calm as a clam.

 

[garsh]

...other times I drive around 40-70 miles in one day depending on who I have to go see.

Well, if it's 70 miles total in a day, you would probably be fine (and quite happy) in a Leaf!

Charging to 80% is basically 'pampering' the battery. You can just charge to 100% and not worry about it. The main issue is that you lose out on regenerative braking at 100% charge, so your brake pads will wear down a little sooner. Not a big deal.

What I usually do is charge every day to 80%. If I learn about a side trip I need to take, I can remotely activate charging again. It only takes about forty minutes to top-off close to 100% from there (the last 1-2% takes another forty minutes).

 

[September]

It does require some planning which ICE does not, then on other hand hassle with purchasing petrol is gone.

 

[Stanton]

The thing about a Leaf (or maybe any BEV, since this is my first), is that you don't realize how great it is until you DRIVE one on a daily basis. I have never enjoyed owning a car (or maybe anything) as much as I have my Leaf; I HATE driving, but I look forward to driving my Leaf.

The only changes to my driving habits have been: I charge to 80% (early in the AM) whenever possible and I keep it under 60 mph on the highway, but in return for that I NEVER HAVE TO BUY GAS!

 

[N1ghtrider]

I am on this forum every day or two; I always charge to 100%; I have more 100-plus miles per charges than anyone else who has reported; I never have range anxiety; and I am not obsessed with all the technical stuff.

 

[cdub]

I am on this forum every day or two; I always charge to 100%; I have more 100-plus miles per charges than anyone else who has reported; I never have range anxiety; and I am not obsessed with all the technical stuff.

I've never made it over 100. It's way way way too hilly here.

72 has been my longest trip. But then again I never let it go past one bar remaining...if that. It rarely sees 2 bars remaining.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

no its not really stressful for me. i dont have any of the heat related issues but do have "cold issues". I am leaving on a camping trip in a few hours. its 84-85 miles roundtrip. will most definitely drive the Leaf.

i "hope" to make it. there is charging station that is about halfway there that will be EXTREMELY inconvenient to use. i hope to charge at site but that right now is up in the air, but either way it will work.

i was also at Priuschat and the conversation was really the same. its not stress you see here. its chat. typed words by people who sometimes struggle to get their point across. read any thread that has more than 20 posts. guaranteed, there will be at least one "miscommunication" or a "rephrase" or "confession of an error of some sort" and so on. fact of the matter; it is difficult to communicate this way.

what may appear to be an attack can simply be a sarcastic remark made as a joke. they dont always play that way. i have seen emoticons added that still did not get the true nature of the comment across.

i am going to assume that your post primarily concerns range degradation for people in the south (no longer seems to be Phoenix only now) there is a bit of stress, but i see most of it being conjecture. all i see is reports of bars disappearing but nothing on Nissan's end. i believe they will react appropriately to the situation but not until the US plants come on line. as i understand it, battery pack modules are in very short supply hence the building of the factory to begin with. i see a big black cloud being lifted from this forum in 6 months.

maybe i am an optimist, or maybe just dizzy

 

[azdre]

Just a word of caution, the reduction in range with capacity loss is significant. Driving no faster than 60 miles per hour (in 65 zones), AC running on just a sliver, 5mi/kWh, our car will now only get about 65 miles to the very-low battery warning from 100% charge. This is the SECOND warning that you're near the end. I have been forced to become obsessive just to make sure I make the correct Prius/LEAF decision each day. No more unplanned trips like I could do last summer. If I want to go to the gym after work, I can't drive to lunch that day. If commuting in the HOV lane during rush hour, you can't keep it to 60MPH and even 65 cuts range significantly. Stress! My base commute is only 40 miles, 3 days a week! If you want to take the leaf over 50 miles regularly, after about a year of ownership plan on stress, over 60 miles, plan on charging somewhere in the middle or leaving it at home. My car is on the leading edge of the losses, I imagine most others in Phoenix will have similar experiences by summer's end. Maybe not, but it's a real possibility.

I cannot recommend the LEAF to anyone in Phoenix until Nissan has documented how to deal with accelerated capacity loss in the heat. It is an AWESOME car, but the wait and see approach is best for Phoenix,Texas, etc for now. Even leasing, if the car doesn't have the range you need after 15 months, will you be happy paying that $350 /month for the rest of the lease when the car doesn't get you where you need to go?

 

[WetEV]

I bought the Leaf so that I wouldn't be tempted by a Model S. It might work. At least I hope it will...

The Leaf almost makes fiscal sense, unlike the Model S. Assuming $3+ gasoline, which isn't a sure thing. Doesn't make a lot of fiscal sense until $6 gasoline, which is probably a sure thing in the longer term, but perhaps not before the Leaf is worn out. Note to self, should calculate at what gasoline price the Model S almost makes sense when compared with the Prius. Less than $3 gasoline, I'd have to admit I'm paying more for the Leaf, even after tax subsidies. Which I probably am even at $3.50.

Sending less money to dictators is a nice bonus. Reduction in CO2 I'm adding to the atmosphere is important, we need to do this. 5 or 10 years ago, either or both might have been the reason.

The Leaf came in red. I might have been waited for the Ford Focus BEV otherwise, which doesn't come in red. I was able to drive a Focus BEV preproduction quite a bit, and I think the Non Disclosure Agreement (NDA) I had to sign might let me say I basically loved that car. I'll risk that much. I'm very sure that I shouldn't say anything more.

I usually don't worry about range. I usually don't worry about battery temperature. Yes, the climate control system is a small bother, should have a way to get just fan, with no heat or AC.

Electric cars are fun. Yes, the Leaf is not as quite as much fun to drive as (deleted due to NDA) but close, and (other comments deleted by NDA), and probably not even close to as much fun as the Model S. But hey, fun is fun. Yes, the technology is not completely ready for full mass market. I know that, and I hope that others know that. This car is the first EV to pass 10k volume, maybe even 100K. Yes, the economics are marginal. Yes, I'd love a much larger battery pack. Yes, I'd like a faster charger built in, but enough quick chargers might change my mind. Yes, I'd like active thermal management. Yes, more torque. Yes, larger kW motor. Yes, more torque. Did I mention more torque? OK, yes, I really wanted a Model S. I'll admit it. Or maybe that Audi E-Tron...(Do they come in red? Please don't answer.) But I settled for a Leaf. It is a very nice car.

Is there a 12 step program for EVddiction?

 

[ERG4ALL]

I liken the era of the electric car in comparison with an ICE vehicle to be much like the change from horse and buggy to ICE vehicles. Imagine the things that the first users of ICE vehicles had to learn. No longer did they just through hay and oats at a horse. There were countless things they had to learn. They had to retard the spark and then set the throttle and then get out and crank the handle but only in a certain way so that if the car backfired the crank wouldn't come back and break their wrist. On top of that, there were oil changes and grease jobs and finding refueling stations and shade tree mechanics chores to keep it running. Fortunately as things advanced the ICE vehicle got easier and easier to use and the infrastructure got better and better. I believe the same thing will happen with EVs as technology increases.

 

[GRA]

Just a word of caution, the reduction in range with capacity loss is significant. Driving no faster than 60 miles per hour (in 65 zones), AC running on just a sliver, 5mi/kWh, our car will now only get about 65 miles to the very-low battery warning from 100% charge. This is the SECOND warning that you're near the end. I have been forced to become obsessive just to make sure I make the correct Prius/LEAF decision each day. No more unplanned trips like I could do last summer. If I want to go to the gym after work, I can't drive to lunch that day. If commuting in the HOV lane during rush hour, you can't keep it to 60MPH and even 65 cuts range significantly. Stress! My base commute is only 40 miles, 3 days a week! If you want to take the leaf over 50 miles regularly, after about a year of ownership plan on stress, over 60 miles, plan on charging somewhere in the middle or leaving it at home. My car is on the leading edge of the losses, I imagine most others in Phoenix will have similar experiences by summer's end. Maybe not, but it's a real possibility.

I cannot recommend the LEAF to anyone in Phoenix until Nissan has documented how to deal with accelerated capacity loss in the heat. It is an AWESOME car, but the wait and see approach is best for Phoenix,Texas, etc for now. Even leasing, if the car doesn't have the range you need after 15 months, will you be happy paying that $350 /month for the rest of the lease when the car doesn't get you where you need to go?

Tacking on to what Azdre wrote, the only affordable BEV I'd recommend to friends for areas like Phoenix at the moment is the FFE, as I believe all the other available, affordable BEVs with TMS just blow ambient air over the battery rather than using liquid or thermoelectric (Peltier junction) cooling - anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. The FFE's range is still kind of marginal for the OP after (presumably slower) degradation, and if they want to be able to drive anywhere at any normal speed without anxiety, I'd say get a Volt or PiP if they meet your other needs. The Volt will allow you to do most of your driving electric, the PiP much less (but better mpg). Given your requirements, at the moment I'd say the Volt would be the best match for you.

 

[PatricioEV]

I'll add my 2 cents and say that I don't find owning the Leaf to be at all stressful. I find it to be LIBERATING! I can drive all I want, and I love driving, without worrying at all about the energy wasted. We also have solar on our home that produces more energy than our car consumes, btw.

I drive as fast as I want, charge to 100% almost always, and use the climate control to be comfortable. The range of the Leaf is well within my daily needs and I just don't worry about it unless I'm going on an unusual trip. Sometimes, we take our other car if we're not sure about the range left in the Leaf (this is perhaps 1-2x a month!)

The salesman at the dealer wanted to tell us all the warnings, but like most on here, I knew more about the car and the technology than he did, so I signed off and said "don't worry about it - this isn't my first EV!"

I LOVE MY LEAF! Yes, I live in Texas and may lose some capacity earlier than Nissan let on.. but again, I am very knowledgeable about EVs and lithium batteries, so it won't be a shock to me when it happens. I plan to keep this car as long as I can still comfortably go 50 miles on a charge. I don't doubt that I'll easily get ten years out of it with those expectations. By that time, it'll probably be my daughter's car anyway...

 

[ebill3]

I'll add my 2 cents and say that I don't find owning the Leaf to be at all stressful. I find it to be LIBERATING! I can drive all I want, and I love driving, without worrying at all about the energy wasted. We also have solar on our home that produces more energy than our car consumes, btw.

I drive as fast as I want, charge to 100% almost always, and use the climate control to be comfortable. The range of the Leaf is well within my daily needs and I just don't worry about it unless I'm going on an unusual trip. Sometimes, we take our other car if we're not sure about the range left in the Leaf (this is perhaps 1-2x a month!)

The salesman at the dealer wanted to tell us all the warnings, but like most on here, I knew more about the car and the technology than your outlookhe did, so I signed off and said "don't worry about it - this isn't my first EV!"

I LOVE MY LEAF! Yes, I live in Texas and may lose some capacity earlier than Nissan let on.. but again, I am very knowledgeable about EVs and lithium batteries, so it won't be a shock to me when it happens. I plan to keep this car as long as I can still comfortably go 50 miles on a charge. I don't doubt that I'll easily get ten years out of it with those expectations. By that time, it'll probably be my daughter's car anyway...

Right on, Practicio. Love your outlook and attitude.

 

[thankyouOB]

I'll add my 2 cents and say that I don't find owning the Leaf to be at all stressful. I find it to be LIBERATING! I can drive all I want, and I love driving, without worrying at all about the energy wasted. We also have solar on our home that produces more energy than our car consumes, btw.

I drive as fast as I want, charge to 100% almost always, and use the climate control to be comfortable. The range of the Leaf is well within my daily needs and I just don't worry about it unless I'm going on an unusual trip. Sometimes, we take our other car if we're not sure about the range left in the Leaf (this is perhaps 1-2x a month!)

The salesman at the dealer wanted to tell us all the warnings, but like most on here, I knew more about the car and the technology than your outlookhe did, so I signed off and said "don't worry about it - this isn't my first EV!"

I LOVE MY LEAF! Yes, I live in Texas and may lose some capacity earlier than Nissan let on.. but again, I am very knowledgeable about EVs and lithium batteries, so it won't be a shock to me when it happens. I plan to keep this car as long as I can still comfortably go 50 miles on a charge. I don't doubt that I'll easily get ten years out of it with those expectations. By that time, it'll probably be my daughter's car anyway...

Right on, Practicio. Love your outlook and attitude.

what patricio said.
I am not stressed. The most stressed I get is reading horsecrap from the folks who trash the Leaf on this forum but dont own one. they seem to me to be justifying their own choices and to do that they have to attack mine.
it is all allot of fud and BS.

I drive where I want, charge off my roof, and even without that would be going a mile on two cents of electric billing from LADWP.

I love the Leaf. It works. It frees me from oil and when we want to go out of town, we go in the ICE that my wife drives.

I see what is going on in AZ, but frankly, if I lived in a hot plate like that or TX, I would not have bought it.
The Ford might be fine, but I didnt want to wait.

Aside from the FUD from posters I wont name, my biggest stress was spending June in my ICE, while the Leaf was being repaired from a rear-ender.
I get it back next week.
FANTASTIC news for me!!!!

Did I mention access to the HOV lanes. Fantastic.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

trouble with the FFE, aside from size is that one won't be able to use a single QC along the west coast electric highway. Like it or not, lots of CHAdeMO are in the ground around here and lots more are coming. After driving Seattle to Portland and Seattle to Wenatchee, both of which would have been next to impossible practically without QC, I will not consider an EV without QC. that said, the FFE looks like a great car in every other respect.

Just a word of caution, the reduction in range with capacity loss is significant. Driving no faster than 60 miles per hour (in 65 zones), AC running on just a sliver, 5mi/kWh, our car will now only get about 65 miles to the very-low battery warning from 100% charge. This is the SECOND warning that you're near the end. I have been forced to become obsessive just to make sure I make the correct Prius/LEAF decision each day. No more unplanned trips like I could do last summer. If I want to go to the gym after work, I can't drive to lunch that day. If commuting in the HOV lane during rush hour, you can't keep it to 60MPH and even 65 cuts range significantly. Stress! My base commute is only 40 miles, 3 days a week! If you want to take the leaf over 50 miles regularly, after about a year of ownership plan on stress, over 60 miles, plan on charging somewhere in the middle or leaving it at home. My car is on the leading edge of the losses, I imagine most others in Phoenix will have similar experiences by summer's end. Maybe not, but it's a real possibility.

I cannot recommend the LEAF to anyone in Phoenix until Nissan has documented how to deal with accelerated capacity loss in the heat. It is an AWESOME car, but the wait and see approach is best for Phoenix,Texas, etc for now. Even leasing, if the car doesn't have the range you need after 15 months, will you be happy paying that $350 /month for the rest of the lease when the car doesn't get you where you need to go?

Tacking on to what Azdre wrote, the only affordable BEV I'd recommend to friends for areas like Phoenix at the moment is the FFE, as I believe all the other available, affordable BEVs with TMS just blow ambient air over the battery rather than using liquid or thermoelectric (Peltier junction) cooling - anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. The FFE's range is still kind of marginal for the OP after (presumably slower) degradation, and if they want to be able to drive anywhere at any normal speed without anxiety, I'd say get a Volt or PiP if they meet your other needs. The Volt will allow you to do most of your driving electric, the PiP much less (but better mpg). Given your requirements, at the moment I'd say the Volt would be the best match for you.

 

[kubel]

I own a Crown Victoria. It's a big, comfortable sedan that projects an image of aggressiveness that should give any driver confidence and a sense of security on the road. It's got a big gas tank with good range. But I feel less comfortable driving the Crown Vic than I do the LEAF. Not that the Crown Vic is bad, but the LEAF just goes out of its way to give the driver a stress free commute. The interior is soft and light. The steering is smooth. The acceleration is linear and silent. The suspension is comfortable. The car handles well and it can get up and go from a stop like the rest of traffic. The car does an amazing job of not contributing to my stress levels. In fact, I would say it alleviates some.

People talk about "range anxiety", but I never experienced this. I have "range awareness". And not just in the LEAF. I've never run a gas car out of gas simply because I have a reasonably effective method of estimating my range.

For the most part, I drive the LEAF however I feel like driving it. I fill it to 100% when I need to. No big deal. I'm not overly concerned with the battery. I look at it as a consumable part that, when replaced, will still be cheaper than gas over its lifetime.

 

[timhebb]

Chiming in with another Leaf driver's (lessee, not owner) response to the thread's original inquiry:

No, it's not stressful for me - but that's because I, like most active participants on this forum, embrace the unique experience of living with a Leaf. I never expected it to be an apples-for-apples replacement for an ICE car, and it's not.

But while I don't experience stress, I do acknowledge feeling occasional frustration that the limited range does not permit me the same freedom as an ICE vehicle, or that charging away from home can necessitate longer stops for coffee, lunch or shopping than I might otherwise want to make.

But then, I'm a rare - and exceptionally stubborn - cheap b*****d, who HATES to pay for the electricity used to operate my Leaf. Thus, I make extraordinary efforts to charge in free public locations, unlike the great majority of other Leaf drivers and most sane people. If I were content to simply plug in at home each night, much of this frustration would go away. But...NOoooooooooo, I just can't be normal. So, there you go.

I'd also emphasize that, sane Leafer or not, you'd better be willing to do a little bit of advance planning if you choose to adopt an EV. These are not vehicles that will happily tolerate an impulse trip out of town, or even across town to the beach and up the coast a bit (my town being Los Angeles), without some minimal brief forethought.

Being a typical MNL member, however, I'm more than typically cerebral when it comes to this gadget, and enjoy excess and convoluted thinking about its every aspect, which also contributes to making a happy Leafer. Not compulsory, but it probably helps.

In short, it takes a special kind of animal, and if you're not pretty sure you're one of us, you may be taking a risk to commit to the EV lifestyle. If you are one, you probably know it already.

 

[craigmartell]

So...wait for it...just drive the damn car!

Hear, hear!