BMW Owner sitting on the fence.....

[sgoyal]

Hi Folks, first time here, considering a 2012 Leaf SL.

I love my 2006 530i, drives like a dream, very reliable, etc. I'm nervous as hell about replacing it with a Leaf, although the handling didn't seem bad on the limited test drive, I wonder how it is day to day. With my 530i, I still get a smile on my face every time I take it out, and I don't drive it hard.

I'd love to hear from members who replaced a BMW or other nice handling car with the Leaf, and how they're doing after a few months. What kind of therapy sessions they've needed, etc.

Appreciate the comments.

 

[Stoaty]

We need a bit more info to see if a Leaf would be right for you:

What city/state do you live in?
How far is your commute?
How far do you expect to drive on a charge for non-commute activities?
Are you thinking of leasing or buying? If lease, how long?

 

[PatricioEV]

I think you'll find you'll love driving the Leaf for entirely different reasons. Just knowing you're not burning gas, how smooth the drive is, how quiet the drive is, etc... It'll bring a smile to your face, but not for the same reasons your BMW does. As for handling, I have put different wheels and tires on my Leaf and it made an amazing difference in how well the car handles. It is much sportier now than it was with the stock set up. I bought take-off Nissan Juke wheels (17x7) and added Continental ExtremeContact DWS tires (205/45/z15). The car has much sportier ride and handling characteristics now, but it's still a Nissan sedan. It's not going to feel like your BMW. There are trade-offs in every decision.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

The Leaf's drive is much better than its 10 second 0-60 would hint at, and I say that coming from a Prius with a 10 second 0-60 which was as uninspiring a drive as one normally would expect from a 10 second car. It's a pretty solid feeling car with a very nice pull up to around 35 mph. At lower speeds I never am frustrated by its pickup, whereas that was a regularity with the Prius.

It's obviously going to be far less enjoyable a drive than your BMW. I'd ask the dealership if you can borrow it for the night.

I've really grown to love the instant torque of an EV drivetrain.

 

[sgoyal]

We need a bit more info to see if a Leaf would be right for you:

What city/state do you live in?
How far is your commute?
How far do you expect to drive on a charge for non-commute activities?
Are you thinking of leasing or buying? If lease, how long?

I'm in San Jose, CA. Commute is 44 miles RT. I'm looking at a 36 mo. lease.

But I think this information is irrelevant to my question. I'm asking from a purely driving experience standpoint. Are driving enthusiasts missing their former cars?

 

[Drivesolo]

The car my Leaf replaced was a BMW E46 325i. The Leaf IS NOT an acceptable substitute for the driving experience as an E46 or for any car that has adequate performance. If you're the type of person that looks for the performance feel from a car, make sure that one of your other cars scratches that itch, because the Leaf will not.

That said, I have absolutely no regrets in selling my E46 and replacing it w/ a Leaf. When I bought my Bimmer years ago my requirements in a car were different than they are now. My priorities have changed and my family does much more driving now than we did in the past and the Leaf serves as our primary car. I'm on my 2nd year of ownership and w/ the annual savings in fuel (living in the Pacific NW where gas is expensive and electricity is cheap) it'll pay for a whole year's worth of tires, track days and autoX's and the fuel of my other vehicles. Since I'm doing more performance driving as a result of the savings from the Leaf, in some way I'm actually getting more driving enjoyment as a result of owning a Leaf.

The Leaf is not a bad car by any sense, it is actually far more relaxing and pleasant to drive at a leisurely pace than most cars I've owned. It's just not a car built for performance and there's not really much that can be done at this time to make it significantly better. Maybe at some point there will be decent options for aftermarket support and some firmware changes to allow it to exhibit better performance.

 

[redLEAF]

We need a bit more info to see if a Leaf would be right for you:

What city/state do you live in?
How far is your commute?
How far do you expect to drive on a charge for non-commute activities?
Are you thinking of leasing or buying? If lease, how long?

+1 on the above; I would add a point if this will be your only car you'll need to rent something else for trips beyond the range; not a big deal for some but has been for others. If you're a multi-car household than no issues at all. To many of us who drive one, even though it's not a 'luxury' car, it's very quiet, can move out easily with its instant torque and quite comfortable but considerably smaller than a 530i; I'd echo getting better tires that would help handling -- definitely not on par with most BMW's. You may want to also check out the 1 series EV lease that BMW is offering as it may give you more of a sporting element especially if you're in CA where it may be available. In my case, my LEAF replaced a 'sporty' Mazda3 GT hatch with the 2.3L so similar in size but not something I miss or equivalent to what you drive now --

 

[Nubo]

My LEAF replaced a Mazda RX-8, which in my opinion is(was) one of the best-handling cars around.

Obviously, the LEAFs design goals are a bit different. I like cars that are purpose-built and among the best at that purpose. As odd as it sounds, my choice in 2004 was between RX-8 and Prius.

I had absolutely no trouble transitioning to the LEAF. While the handling limits are nowhere near sports-car territory, they're perfectly fine for real-world driving. In traffic, the instant torque of the electric drive lets you perform quick little moves and squirts that a cab driver would envy. Combine that with the absolutely instant "throttle response" and uncanny smoothness and you really do get an enjoyable drive.

At highway speeds the car does start to show its limitations but again perfectly adequate. Pushing handling limits on a highway is a bad idea anyway and not fun imho.

The OEM tires are definitely not the best for handling. If you find you just cannot abide, there are threads from other owners who've switched to other tires (Eco and otherwise) and report good results.

I've needed no therapy. To my Mazda rotary-engine friends I explain that while the RX-8's engine approximated the smoothness of an electric motor, now I have the real thing. :mrgreen:

 

[sgoyal]

+1 on the above; I would add a point if this will be your only car you'll need to rent something else for trips beyond the range; not a big deal for some but has been for others. If you're a multi-car household than no issues at all. To many of us who drive one, even though it's not a 'luxury' car, it's very quiet, can move out easily with its instant torque and quite comfortable but considerably smaller than a 530i; I'd echo getting better tires that would help handling -- definitely not on par with most BMW's. You may want to also check out the 1 series EV lease that BMW is offering as it may give you more of a sporting element especially if you're in CA where it may be available. In my case, my LEAF replaced a 'sporty' Mazda3 GT hatch with the 2.3L so similar in size but not something I miss or equivalent to what you drive now --

redLEAF, yes we have a 4WD SUV (2012 Cadillac SRX) for our 4-6 camping/skiing/Disneyland trips we take every year. Nice to know that you're not missing your Mazda3 GT, definitely a nice handling car.

Main reason for looking at the Leaf, are the great incentives right now for the 2012 models. I looked at the 1 series EV, but its more than 3x monthly payment. So it doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Boomer23]

I can try to address the question of switching from a BMW to a LEAF. My previous car was a leased 2008 328i Coupe with Sport and manual trans. I love my LEAF after 19 months and almost 18k miles, but as regards handling, the two cars couldn't be more different. To its credit, the LEAF has no pretentions about being a sports sedan. It is a very competent, highly reliable people mover, and its handling is safe and predictable, but nothing about its driving dynamics inspires me to grin much. Where the BMW's steering communicates a lot of road feel, the LEAF's steering is very light and power boosted, with little road feel. In cornering, the LEAF, with the standard tires, has little grip and enough body roll to discourage a sporting driving style. I'm told that a switch to better tires makes a big difference. Where the BMW turns in crisply, the LEAF goes where you point it, but it doesn't have any of that smile-inducing crispness.

The LEAF shines in its own way by being very good at what it is designed to do, while offering plenty of technical fascination by virtue of its electric drivetrain. The "EV grin" comes from the torque that is available immediately when starting from rest, combined with the smoothness and quiet of the drive train. And kicking gas is a thrill all on its own.

I found that I didn't miss my BMW because I was fascinated by the switch to electric driving. My fun now comes from being fascinated by being able to drive for free on my home's solar power, from kicking the oil habit, from being different and an early adopter, and from watching technical things like the energy reclaimed from brake regeneration. When I drive a sports car, I still get the urge to drive one again in the future. I would like that sports car to be an EV, but I'm not seeing anything affordable in a sports EV very soon.

If you live in CA or Portland, you might appreciate the sportiness of the Honda Fit EV, which is available for lease only in those markets right now. Tesla's Model S is a large sedan with very sporting performance, if you can handle prices of well over $50k with no lease option and a year's wait to get one. BMW is planning to release their i3 EV late next year, and it should perform well. If you start with a two year lease on a LEAF at today's very low lease terms, you could spend the next two years deciding whether an EV works well for you, and then upgrade to the BMW when that new car is available and has some reviews out from the press and new owners.

 

[September]

I used to drive BMW, and Alfa Romeo as well which is premium brand of FIAT.

Pros:
- low center of gravity
- stiff chasis
- excellent engine, really good in 0-30mph city driving
- no gearbox, very pleasant like manual

Cons:
- FWD
- terrible gas pedal mapping
- crappy tyres
- too soft suspension (but I hear that US people like them so could be wrong here)
- maybe too much ground clearance

... so it is bad, because it is so close to being very decent and pleasurable car but Nissan stops and makes this dull hatchback.

 

[MrIanB]

Traded my 2009 370z for my 2011 on January of this year and have not looked back.

They are not comparable but, the quietness, zippiness and no gas makes it a winner in my book.

Ian B

 

[ksnogas2112]

Not a luxury or performance driver. However, I've driven my 92 year old grandmother who has a bad back and she thinks the ride is excellent. She's accustomed to Chevy Caprice and VW Pasat.
Hope this helps.

Tom

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Are driving enthusiasts missing their former cars?

One of my former cars was a Honda S2000. I actually sold it in 2009 after my son was born. I still miss that car.

That said, the Leaf is a very enjoyable drive, especially around town. The peppiness up to 35 or 40 miles per hour keeps me pretty happy. It will never replace the joy of driving the S2000, but it brings new joys that can never be provided by a gasoline car: instant low-end torque, convenience, the joy of driving on sunshine (from solar panels on my roof)...

 

[eclecticflower]

@ksnogas2112: "I've driven my 92 year old grandmother"

...does she have front-wheel drive? :lol:

 

[Nubo]

@ksnogas2112: "I've driven my 92 year old grandmother"

...does she have front-wheel drive? :lol:

:lol:

 

[mkjayakumar]

My Leaf replaced my Lexus RX 350, in the sense that the Lexus is now the garage queen. The RX is definitely a smooth ride and a nice cross over SUV, but I think the Leaf is more smoother. I don't miss it.

Sometime soon hopefully I will trade it in for a Volt

 

[Stoaty]

I'm in San Jose, CA. Commute is 44 miles RT. I'm looking at a 36 mo. lease.

But I think this information is irrelevant to my question.

True, but since we don't know your level of knowledge about the limitations of the Leaf, it is always a good idea to make sure the car is a good fit for you first. I would say you are a perfect candidate.

 

[DeaneG]

I replaced a high-end Italian sports car with my Leaf. Well, I still have the Italian, but do not drive it anymore, or even start it, I just keep the battery charged and seem to keep it in the garage largely for ego reinforcement purposes. The Leaf is just a much more pleasant overall commute experience, if much less exciting. It makes the Italian seem like a complete dinosaur.

My biggest pre-purchase worry was that the Leaf would bore me to death. Mostly now I enjoy HOV-lane passing those high-end cars I used to covet but which now seem pathetic. Blew by a Ferrari California and an Aston Martin DB9 parked in highway 85 commute traffic twice each last week, and a Lamborghini of some type the week before (not sure what it was, I went by kind of fast). There's a certain "lightness of being" in driving the Leaf.

My advice: pick up the 2012 Leaf cheap on lease to see if you basically enjoy electric driving day to day, then if OK, upgrade later to whatever suits you (Tesla, etc). An EV has the potential to be leagues ahead of any gas car as a daily driver. It's just a matter of the implementation tradeoffs for a particular model.

 

[GRA]

Given that driving qualities are important to the OP, I'd say he might find the Ford Focus Electric (FFE) more to his tastes, or especially the Honda Fit EV (HFE) already mentioned, particularly in Sport mode. See an example in Brad Berman's review here:

http://www.plugincars.com/first-drive-honda-fit-ev-combines-power-and-practicality-110736.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The FFE is now being offered on similar lease terms to the Leaf (~$199/month + taxes), albeit with a 10,500 mile/year limit, which is slightly problematic for a 44 mile daily commute (44 x 5 x 48 weeks = 10,560 miles/yr). You'd want to get a lease with a greater mileage allowance.

Unfortunately the HFE hasn't been offered with comparable lease terms, although they do include collision insurance in the $389/month + tax lease cost, which accounts for its lackluster sales despite the fact that IMO it's the best combination of performance, handling and efficiency currently available in a sub-$40k BEV. And the car is only available for lease, with no option to buy at end of term, which scares off some people who went through the EV1 experience.

In any case, give all three a try, and see which one you like best. Driving enthusiasts seem to vote hands down for the HFE, with the FFE second.

Edit: Oh, one downside to both the FFE and HFE compared to the Leaf is that you can't get CHAdeMo DC Quick Charging. Not a big deal for a car used primarily for commuting and local driving, and their internal chargers are twice as powerful as the one on the 2012 Leaf (2013 Leaf will have the same 6.6 kW charger as the FFE/HFE).