Burn out?!

[aqn]

Has anybody tried turning off the traction control and doing a burn-out?
http://blog.caranddriver.com/10best-surprise-the-nissan-leaf-burns-a-different-petroleum-product/

 

[kolmstead]

A couple of folks have tried it, and reported not much difference from normal acceleration. I usually run in ECO mode, but a couple of times when I wasn't, I've broken one of the front tires loose briefly just with quick accelerations from a stop. Hard tires on asphalt with a little sand on the surface. Traction control didn't prevent the slippage, to my surprise.

As to the acceleration, I'm very pleasantly surprised. Gets up to 40 mph very quickly, with no noise at all. Definitely a sleeper. It's not a dragster, but it would beat 90% of the cars I've owned.

I have not raced anyone. And I won't. That's not why I bought the LEAF. To answer your original question, I don't think the LEAF will generate any tire smoke. I know that a Nissan employee said that the LEAF could do burnouts. Not a chance. 107 horsepower in a 3370 pound car? Nope.

-Karl

 

[LEAFfan]

Has anybody tried turning off the traction control and doing a burn-out?
http://blog.caranddriver.com/10best-surprise-the-nissan-leaf-burns-a-different-petroleum-product/

No burnout, but with the traction control on, twice I squealed the tires on one of the touring cars from a stop in D and ECO.

 

[turbo2ltr]

I've tried. The power ramp rate is rather slow when you mash the throttle from a dead stop so the tires don't break loose, though you can hear them grasping for traction. But even with the traction control on, you can easily break a wheel loose going around a turn. The traction control is a bit slow to react..

 

[aqn]

Thanks for the info, all.

A couple of folks have tried it, and reported not much difference from normal acceleration. I usually run in ECO mode, but a couple of times when I wasn't, I've broken one of the front tires loose briefly just with quick accelerations from a stop. Hard tires on asphalt with a little sand on the surface. Traction control didn't prevent the slippage, to my surprise.

Traction control doesn't prevent spinning the driven wheels. It prevents the driven wheels from
spinning at grossly different rates from each other, and probably from the non-driven wheels as
well. Which is why Car & Driver mentioned turning the traction control off.

As to the acceleration, I'm very pleasantly surprised. Gets up to 40 mph very quickly, with no noise at all. Definitely a sleeper. It's not a dragster, but it would beat 90% of the cars I've owned.

I have not raced anyone. And I won't. That's not why I bought the LEAF.

Well, yeah, nobody is gonna win straight line contests in a Leaf, unless a. they have the element of
surprise, and b. the contest lasts only across the intersection! 100% torque at 0 rpm gets a body
at rest moving quite quickly.

That said, your experience and other' do confirm my own test drive experience. I floored the
throttle from a crawl (just turning out onto an access road) for about 1/16 of a mile. It's a lot like
driving a diesel: one gets a hefty shove in the back at first but then acceleration flattens out
quickly. (I didn't know about the traction control disabling nor the Car & Driver tidbit at that
point so I didn't try getting the front tires to slip.)

To answer your original question, I don't think the LEAF will generate any tire smoke. I know that a Nissan employee said that the LEAF could do burnouts. Not a chance. 107 horsepower in a 3370 pound car? Nope.
-Karl

Sure about that? It's not just horsepower one needs to break the tires loose. 206 ft-lbs is a
lot of torque. As a comparison, a 3250 lbs VW GTI makes about that much (albeit making
about 210 bhp). With the stability control (which also turns off traction control) off, I can
squeal the tires half way across the intersection, and "get rubber" on the 1-2 shift.

Furthermore, it's much easier to spin the front tires of a FWD car than a rear wheel drive one
because the rearward weight transfer unloads the front tires and loads up the rear tires.
I suspect the Leaf is more balanced front/rear weight wise than my GTI, the Leaf having its battery
under the floor. That makes the front tires even less loaded under hard acceleration.

Now, a sustained burn out could be a tall order, but I'm inclined to believe that a Leaf can
definitely do more than just chirping the tires. I'd say it can at least squeal the tires in the first few feet.
I guess I'll just have to wait until I get my Leaf to find out. Unless someone wants to let his/her
inner hooligan out and try it first!

I've tried. The power ramp rate is rather slow when you mash the throttle from a dead stop...

That's rather disappointing to hear. Is that with the traction control off?

...so the tires don't break loose, though you can hear them grasping for traction.

But even with the traction control on, you can easily break a wheel loose going around a turn. The traction control is a bit slow to react..

If you're going around a turn, maybe it's the stability control that's keeping a lid on it?
I don't know how much/whether traction control comes into play in a turn.

 

[turbo2ltr]

I've tried. The power ramp rate is rather slow when you mash the throttle from a dead stop...

That's rather disappointing to hear. Is that with the traction control off?

...so the tires don't break loose, though you can hear them grasping for traction.

But even with the traction control on, you can easily break a wheel loose going around a turn. The traction control is a bit slow to react..

If you're going around a turn, maybe it's the stability control that's keeping a lid on it?
I don't know how much/whether traction control comes into play in a turn.

The ramp rate is not affected by traction control status. Personally I have not found any difference in wheel spin or acceleration when mashing the throttle on dry ground in a straight line with the TC on or off.

The traction control portion of the vehicle stability system comes into play any time there is a difference in wheel speed between all the wheels. Going around a turn just takes weight off the inside wheel making it easier to spin, at which point the TC will do something about.

 

[TomT]

I can say this from experience: On the Volt, with TC on, nothing will light up the front tires. All you get is some slight slippage and minor chirping. With TC off, you can light up ONE tire (remember that, like the Leaf, it is an open differential) for a slight distance. Therefore, I am led to assume that the Volt's TC is more effective than the Leafs... Bottom line is, though, why does anyone really care?

 

[LEAFguy]

I know that a Nissan employee said that the LEAF could do burnouts. Not a chance. 107 horsepower in a 3370 pound car? Nope.-Karl

Karl, as aqn mentioned, horsepower doesn't give you burnouts, torque does. Torque=acceleration. Horsepower=speed.

 

[avanti5010]

What's the use of burnouts besides trying to impress someone?
Spinning tires slows acceleration. That's why AWD vehicles ala GT-R as as fast as they are. No wasteful wheelspin. DOH! :roll:

 

[kolmstead]

Actually, I suspect that aqn's smoky burnouts are the result of revving up the GTI's engine and dumping the clutch, which is tough to do in a LEAF. He's converting a bunch of kinetic energy he's stored in the car's flywheel into heat, noise and smoke. Doesn't take a lot of power or torque to do that. Even my 90 hp Golf diesel could chirp the tires if I got clumsy with the clutch. Despite the diesel's torque, stomping on the accelerator did not produce smoky burnouts.

Discussions of power vs torque get confusing, because torque, horsepower and RPM are intimately related:

HP = Torque X RPM / 5252

Torque = HP X 5252 / RPM

Where torque is expressed in pounds-feet. Note that it is entirely possible to have torque without power, but only when RPM is zero. As soon as things start revolving, horsepower is non-zero. The magic of electric motors is that they may put out full torque at zero RPM, which internal combustion engines cannot do.

However, Nissan designed an efficient 4-door sedan, not a dragster. If you want to see what can be done when acceleration is the objective, take a look at NEDRA and the White Zombie videos on YouTube. A '72 Datsun EV that runs 10 second quarter miles!

-Karl

 

[LEAFguy]

If you want to see what can be done when acceleration is the objective, take a look at NEDRA and the White Zombie videos on YouTube. A '72 Datsun EV that runs 10 second quarter miles!-Karl

Very cool! Here's a link to the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QfcKnjBaDA

 

[nader]

Sorry to bring this back from the dead but how do you turn off the stability control? I have tried extended pressing of the TC button but no luck. I want to turn it off the Refuel event tomorrow morning. If there is no button i could always oull the ABS fuse.

 

[TomT]

Unlike some other vehicles where an extended press will turn of the VSC, I don't believe the Leaf will let you do so. It's always on unless you pull the fuse.

Sorry to bring this back from the dead but how do you turn off the stability control? I have tried extended pressing of the TC button but no luck. I want to turn it off the Refuel event tomorrow morning. If there is no button i could always oull the ABS fuse.

 

[kballs]

After doing some "full throttle" starts from a stop, the power meter doesn't hit full power until about 20 MPH. Though 100% power is available instantly above 20, the power ramping makes the car a bit of a slug off the line. I wish there was a way to shorten the power ramp... you can always use eco mode for slick/wet roads.

 

[kballs]

After doing some "full throttle" starts from a stop, the power meter doesn't hit full power until about 20 MPH. Though 100% power is available instantly above 20, the power ramping makes the car a bit of a slug off the line. I wish there was a way to shorten the power ramp... you can always use eco mode for slick/wet roads.

After talking with an EV expert, the power limitation might by a physical limitation. At 0 rpm, to get full power you need massive amperage, which requires a serious inverter. Nissan might limit the power so they can keep the inverter cost down, and most Leaf buyers won't care because it's not a performance car.

 

[nader]

It's only a matter of time before someone reflashes the ECU with a new throttle map. I for one want full regen on the throttle pedal. I'd also like a mode with no creep. I usually put the car in neutral at stop lights any way so no creep would save that step.

 

[rainnw]

I just do a neutral drop with the pedal all the way down. The motor starts at a full 80kW.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Furthermore, it's much easier to spin the front tires of a FWD car than a rear wheel drive one
because the rearward weight transfer unloads the front tires and loads up the rear tires.

that is wrong simply because power to the rear wheel happens BEFORE the shift of the weight causing loss of friction before weight shift (inclined plane)

 

[aqn]

Furthermore, it's much easier to spin the front tires of a FWD car than a rear wheel drive one
because the rearward weight transfer unloads the front tires and loads up the rear tires.

that is wrong

I want to be sure I understand: you are saying that it is easier to spin the driven wheels/chirp the tires/burn out in a RWD car?

simply because power to the rear wheel happens BEFORE the shift of the weight causing loss of friction before weight shift (inclined plane)

True enough, but how long do you think a RWD car's rear tires get power before the car's weight shifts onto them? That is, how much time do the rear tires have to lose friction before the car's weight shifts onto them? One quarter of a second? Half a second? One second? Compare that to a FWD car's front tires, which will be unloaded the entire time the car is accelerating.

Here's a real easy test: if it's easier to burn out in a RWD car, it'd be harder to burn out in reverse in that same car, no? I.e. same car, but now as a "FWD" car. Or with a FWD car, it should be easier to chirp the front tires/burn out when accelerating backwards in reverse than when accelerating forward? Let me know what you find.

Finally, if FWD cars are superior at retaining traction during launch, why are all dragsters RWD?!

 

[aqn]

I just do a neutral drop with the pedal all the way down. The motor starts at a full 80kW.

Car in 'N', floor the accelerator, then shift into 'D'? Does that work in a LEAF? I need to try that...