Can anyone help a noob down on his charge?

[nlagnew]

On the topic of ECO and "going fast"...
I was attempting to enter the interstate a few months back and was (as always) in ECO. I looked back to see both lanes (we're in the rural part of the Triangle area of NC) full of cars with no breaks in them as far as I could see. Absolutely no room to slide in easily between the cars.

"Oho, I better get up to highway speed NOW", I thought. I floored the accelerator pedal and entered at 75mph, well ahead of the packed cars, and then let myself slow down to cruise at 65. Getting up to 75 was quicker than I imagined with ECO on. It relieved me about whether I was removing all the pickup by using ECO.

I have tried that same entrance in "D" - car feels like a rocket -- just delightful! I've only done that once or twice (I stay in ECO to maximize miles), but boy... what a feeling. (No, I don't normally enter at 75mph, but the option to get into a lane ahead of the pack instead of stopping at the end of the entrance ramp always feels safer to me - when the ramp is empty .)

 

[dgpcolorado]

BTW, today was even better. Unseasonably warm again. Wife got home with 45 miles left. Much better than 9.

Okay, and that brings up another point I'm surprised most people haven't mentioned more (although they have).

DON'T use the guess-o-meter!

Instead, you'll start to get familiar with how many bars it takes to go to/from work. Just ignore the number and look at the bars. You'll be much happier!

This. The GoM has some entertainment value but is otherwise pretty useless unless one drives exactly the same route under the same conditions (weather, traffic, speed). I've found that if I am down in town with two full bars left I can make it home easily even with a 1000 foot climb. The GoM reading is irrelevant.

 

[Nubo]

Once you understand the GOM's shortcomings and watch its fluctuations, you can use it's flawed pronouncements. Sort of like the right side mirror. "Objects in this mirror are closer than they appear"... NOT! We know it's a convex mirror so we adjust and the image becomes useful.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Once you understand the GOM's shortcomings and watch its fluctuations, you can use it's flawed pronouncements. Sort of like the right side mirror. "Objects in this mirror are closer than they appear"... NOT! We know it's a convex mirror so we adjust and the image becomes useful.

So, when I'm driving down one side of a mountain pass, and the fuel tank is half full, and the GoM is telling me I can go over 100 miles, driving 50 miles up the other side of the pass is:

1. Absolutely possible; use your GoM.

2. Why would anybody use the GoM?

3. You're not going to make it.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

The GOM is useless if you are going up or down a long stretch such as a mountain pass, fortunately most of us don't do that on a regular basis. The rest of the time it's useful in context to the other tools on the dash.

yesterday I did a little experiment, since carwings had crashed, my attempt to top off to 100% failed and I was left with 80% for a trip to tiger mountain trailhead from Shoreline WA. I bit the bullet, reset the MPkW and trip odometer and kept the GOM+trip odometer adding up to 80 miles as I drove (It's about 65 miles round trip and I needed some spare to pick up the kids afterwords, plus I don't plan on going below VLB, pretty much ever). I did not pay attention to my speed at all, instead I focussed on keeping the power reading to 2 to 3 bubbles and watched the effect of my driving on my MPkW and trip odometer + GOM reading, if the number dipped, I drove more conservatively, if it shot up, I knew I could drive more aggressively. When I made it to the ascent up the pass toward tiger mountain I knew that for a brief time that the GOM would dip and give me an erroneous reading so I was not alarmed when I saw the sum of the GOM and trip odometer drop below my target distance. As the previous poster states, you can learn to adjust your depth perception a bit like using a side view mirror, which of course you have to even if you use your chart, because conditions are constantly changing. I have not found a better way to keep track of the collective effect of all the changing parameters than using the dash tools to predict how to drive within my target range. I made it from shoreline to tiger mountain trail head and back to shoreline with one bar and decided to push it and see if I could make the rounds and pick up the kids from their daycares with substantail change in elevation ... made it in the driveway a mile or so after VLB, absolutely on the dot, having never done this loop before. I've learned to use the tools of the car to do this consistently. the trip was 76 miles and my efficiency was up to 4.7 MPkW... seems like the temperature really does effect efficiency as it was warmer today and I have not been able to get 4.7 since last fall. I was driving ultra conservatively because I knew it would be a stretch, but not bad for lots of elevation and highway driving!

It's taken the better part of a year to get proficient using only the tools the car comes with and while I have to admit I went through some significant frustration in the process, I have learned to appreciate how valuable the Leaf system is.

Once you understand the GOM's shortcomings and watch its fluctuations, you can use it's flawed pronouncements. Sort of like the right side mirror. "Objects in this mirror are closer than they appear"... NOT! We know it's a convex mirror so we adjust and the image becomes useful.

So, when I'm driving down one side of a mountain pass, and the fuel tank is half full, and the GoM is telling me I can go over 100 miles, driving 50 miles up the other side of the pass is:

1. Absolutely possible; use your GoM.

2. Why would anybody use the GoM?

3. You're not going to make it.

 

[TonyWilliams]

4.7 MPkW... seems like the temperature really does effect efficiency as it was warmer today and I have not been able to get 4.7 since last fall. I was driving ultra conservatively because I knew it would be a stretch, but not bad for lots of elevation and highway driving!

Not bad at all. You probably had 4 more miles until lights out, so 80 miles at 4.7 is 17kWh from the battery. Just about exactly normal for 70F-ish.

What do you think the battery temp was?

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

I have found with the hills here and cooler temps that I don't push past VLB because I have turtled the car and the distance between VLB and turtle and the distance you have in turtle with hills and cold is a crap shoot.

it was around 45 degrees out, the battery temp red 5 bars. the battery was nearly cold soaked, no prewarming, no climate control. it had been driven earlier in the day with a recharging of 2 bars back to 80%. it had been charged to 80% the evening before.

4.7 MPkW... seems like the temperature really does effect efficiency as it was warmer today and I have not been able to get 4.7 since last fall. I was driving ultra conservatively because I knew it would be a stretch, but not bad for lots of elevation and highway driving!

Not bad at all. You probably had 4 more miles until lights out, so 80 miles at 4.7 is 17kWh from the battery. Just about exactly normal for 70F-ish.

What do you think the battery temp was?

 

[TonyWilliams]

it was around 45 degrees out, the battery temp red 5 bars. the battery was nearly cold soaked, no prewarming, no climate control. it had been driven earier in the day with a recharging of 2 bars.

So, the battery temp gauge, if we understand that at all, was between 50F and 74F with 5 temp bars.

To what extent the battery temperature was changed above ambient by the earlier driving and charging, we just don't (yet) have the tools to measure that.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

In this case, I'm guessing it was closer to 50 degrees but yes, we really don't know. You have stated several times that you think timing of charging has little if no effect on battery temp and thus the charge it can take. have you changed you thinking on that? It's hard to imagine that it had a big effect, especially with the 80% charging I did above, over something like an 12 hour period, the battery had only been charged 2 bars. maybe briefly driving it before charging it warmed it up substantially.

in any case, I've learned to use the tools that car comes with go drive consistently within target range, even on virgin voyages. I know how to stretch it out or let loose, with precision. I think the tools the car comes with deserve more credit than they get, though they take developing skill to perfect.

it was around 45 degrees out, the battery temp red 5 bars. the battery was nearly cold soaked, no prewarming, no climate control. it had been driven earier in the day with a recharging of 2 bars.

So, the battery temp gauge, if we understand that at all, was between 50F and 74F with 5 temp bars.

To what extent the battery temperature was changed above ambient by the earlier driving and charging, we just don't (yet) have the tools to measure that.

 

[TonyWilliams]

In this case, I'm guessing it was closer to 50 degrees but yes, we really don't know. You have stated several times that you think timing of charging has little if no effect on battery temp and thus the charge it can take. have you changed you thinking on that? it appears to have little effect, especially with the 80% charging I did above, over something like an 12 hour period, the battery had only been charged 2 bars.

If there was a big change in temperature, Nissan would have used an active temperature control, like GM and BMW, and to some extent, Mitsubishi.

I don't know. I want to put a regular temperature probe on the pack.

 

[lpickup]

Yesterday my wife drove the exact same route. No demo trip during lunch. She returned home with 35 miles showing on the GOM. I believe SOC as about 45-50%.

Here's what changed:
- drove in ECO mode most of the time. There were times (going up hill) where she found it better to get out of ECO
- no or very little climate control. Used heated steering wheel and seat
- temp was way above normal. We were in the low to mid 50's
- modified driving technique

Here's the other thing I wanted to mention: once you do realize how to use the various displays in the car to optimize your driving technique for efficiency (and following driving style recommendations here), you'll begin to see other drivers' "wasteful" habits in a new way. When driving efficiently in traffic (i.e. keeping more space between you and the car in front of you so as to even out acceleration/deceleration) you'll notice how other drivers are quick on the gas, quick on the brake and can imagine if they had the same "tools" (i.e. the bubble display) available to them that they would see how wasteful their actions are.

Just because you have an EV and they have gas vehicles doesn't mean that somehow the laws of physics don't apply to them. It pretty much takes the same amount of energy to accelerate their car as it does yours (assuming similar weight). And unlike the non-hybrid gas vehicles, at least you are getting a little bit of your energy back when you slow down.

So while it may be necessary to adjust your driving style to drive efficiently, once you have the tools and knowledge about how much energy is actually being wasted by driving inefficiently, you'll probably realize how foolish everyone else is being. And compared to the relatively cheap electricity we use for driving, everyone else is REALLY tossing their money out their tailpipe!

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

I want to put a regular temperature probe on the pack.

I'd be very interested in knowing what you find out.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

+1

Yesterday my wife drove the exact same route. No demo trip during lunch. She returned home with 35 miles showing on the GOM. I believe SOC as about 45-50%.

Here's what changed:
- drove in ECO mode most of the time. There were times (going up hill) where she found it better to get out of ECO
- no or very little climate control. Used heated steering wheel and seat
- temp was way above normal. We were in the low to mid 50's
- modified driving technique

Here's the other thing I wanted to mention: once you do realize how to use the various displays in the car to optimize your driving technique for efficiency (and following driving style recommendations here), you'll begin to see other drivers' "wasteful" habits in a new way. When driving efficiently in traffic (i.e. keeping more space between you and the car in front of you so as to even out acceleration/deceleration) you'll notice how other drivers are quick on the gas, quick on the brake and can imagine if they had the same "tools" (i.e. the bubble display) available to them that they would see how wasteful their actions are.

Just because you have an EV and they have gas vehicles doesn't mean that somehow the laws of physics don't apply to them. It pretty much takes the same amount of energy to accelerate their car as it does yours (assuming similar weight). And unlike the non-hybrid gas vehicles, at least you are getting a little bit of your energy back when you slow down.

So while it may be necessary to adjust your driving style to drive efficiently, once you have the tools and knowledge about how much energy is actually being wasted by driving inefficiently, you'll probably realize how foolish everyone else is being. And compared to the relatively cheap electricity we use for driving, everyone else is REALLY tossing their money out their tailpipe!

 

[Nubo]

Once you understand the GOM's shortcomings and watch its fluctuations, you can use it's flawed pronouncements. Sort of like the right side mirror. "Objects in this mirror are closer than they appear"... NOT! We know it's a convex mirror so we adjust and the image becomes useful.

So, when I'm driving down one side of a mountain pass, and the fuel tank is half full, and the GoM is telling me I can go over 100 miles, driving 50 miles up the other side of the pass is:

1. Absolutely possible; use your GoM.

2. Why would anybody use the GoM?

3. You're not going to make it.

3.

 

[jstack6]

Make sure you were really at 100% full charge, It maybe programmed for 80% and then stopped charging.

We are in warm Arizona and show 98-100 miles with just an 80% charge, it shows 118 or so on a 100% charge which we do at times we need to go further.

The 2nd day I had our car I went 102 miles and still showed 31 on the range. I only drive city streets and even a small downhill will gain a mile for each one travekled. It's amazing.

 

[charge]

So, after a full week of driving it seems as things have improved quite a bit. If we charge to 100% (yes we are charging to 100% for now until my wife has the confidence to drop down to 80%), then she gets home with anywhere from 30-45 miles left. Battery level left has been from about 25-45%. Things that changed...

1. Drove in eco mode most of the time. My wife and daughter still say it's easier to drive in D up hill, despite what everyone on this forum says and what I say. So, they shift out of eco into D when they "think' they need it. I did try going up a steep hill in eco and our Leaf had plenty of acceleration.
2. Less use of climate control. We preheat now and my wife keeps use of cc to a minimum
3. Driving more conservatively
4. Weather was 10-20 warmer Tue -Fri last week in CT

I know many folks said to ignore the GOM and rely on the battery. I know this is what we do with an ICE vehicle, but an ICE has 300-350 mile range on a tank of gas. I know that if I get down to an 1/8th, I still have plenty of miles left to get to a gas station and there are plenty of gas stations around who are eager to take my cash. Maybe over time we'll get used to looking at just the battery and doing a quick mental calculation to say, yes, I'm OK, I can make it home.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

great job, glad to hear it's going well!

So, after a full week of driving it seems as things have improved quite a bit. If we charge to 100% (yes we are charging to 100% for now until my wife has the confidence to drop down to 80%), then she gets home with anywhere from 30-45 miles left. Battery level left has been from about 25-45%. Things that changed...

1. Drove in eco mode most of the time. My wife and daughter still say it's easier to drive in D up hill, despite what everyone on this forum says and what I say. So, they shift out of eco into D when they "think' they need it. I did try going up a steep hill in eco and our Leaf had plenty of acceleration.
2. Less use of climate control. We preheat now and my wife keeps use of cc to a minimum
3. Driving more conservatively
4. Weather was 10-20 warmer Tue -Fri last week in CT

I know many folks said to ignore the GOM and rely on the battery. I know this is what we do with an ICE vehicle, but an ICE has 300-350 mile range on a tank of gas. I know that if I get down to an 1/8th, I still have plenty of miles left to get to a gas station and there are plenty of gas stations around who are eager to take my cash. Maybe over time we'll get used to looking at just the battery and doing a quick mental calculation to say, yes, I'm OK, I can make it home.

 

[Caracalover]

So, after a full week of driving... Maybe over time we'll get used to looking at just the battery and doing a quick mental calculation to say, yes, I'm OK, I can make it home.

Trust is earned, not given. You will learn to trust this car, and your ability to get where you want to go in it. There will be times when you will use the juice because you know you can, and times you will conserve it so you will go further without the use of oil. It takes a little time, but it is fun once you get over the anxiety of not trusting the vehicle to get you there.

I have 12,000 miles on mine, and drove 15 miles to work today without losing a bar on the battery. I still find that fun. I don't do it often, taking side streets and my time, but when I choose to, it still amazes me how efficient this car can be.