drees said:
edatoakrun said:
You think perhaps your LEAFs LBC might have been exaggerating your capacity loss, by just a bit? when it reported "11%" over 10 k miles?
You think
perhaps 10k miles in 3 months is not necessarily the same as 10k miles over a year? :roll:...
Obviously, we will not know the actual rate of calendar loss until many years have passed.
But, if you look at the data I linked previously:
http://avt.inl.gov/pdf/energystorage/DCFC_Study_FactSheet_50k.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You will see that one of the 10k segment with the lowest capacity loss was the longest in time, October '13 to March '14. What you also can see from the average battery temperature data is how driving more miles per day raises the battery temperature and accelerates capacity loss. As the miles driven daily by the four LEAFs has decreased, so has both average battery temperature and rate of capacity loss.
One of the reasons I see TaylorSFguy's 112k+ miles as very good news it that by driving so many miles in so short of a time, he has probably maintained an average battery temperature ~like one of a warm California climate LEAF driven a more typical number of miles per year.
But as the Phoenix AVTA data shows, only
very high battery temperatures over an extended period cause rapid capacity lose/kWh throughput. The 10k test segments with (seasonally) lower average battery temperatures show much slower rates of capacity loss.
So you evidently need a combination of very high ambient temps, very high kWh use and miles driven per day (and perhaps, as exacerbated in the AVTA test, by extreme cycling of SOC) to degrade a battery to 70% EOL by 60k or 70k miles over a short time period.
Unfortunately, we don't have data over any longer time periods, since, AFAIK, no one has done an accurate range/capacity test of a LEAF with either 4 bar loss or high miles.
The only range test of an 8 capacity bar LEAF, AFAIK, reports that Blue494, with ~38% LBC indicated capacity loss, went 59.3 miles, which we now know (from all the AVTA test data) is only ~22% less miles than the average capacity of the four "new" LEAFs tested by AVTA would have completed (~21 kWh x ~3.6 m/kwh) = ~75.6 miles.
Unfortunately, the wiki continues to use the incorrect 4.0 m/kWh, and so, an incorrect total miles, for a "new" LEAF, in it's summary.
http://electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery_Capacity_Loss" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
="drees"...There's been plenty of cases of LEAFs losing a bar in ~1 year and ~10k miles when subjected to desert heat conditions. In fact, if you look at the wiki, there's plenty that beat that benchmark by far.
Yes, there is plenty of data showing rapid loss of gids and bars.
But not data showing this correlates to
actual capacity loss.
If Pchilds lives in Temecula as another comment suggests, his LEAF sees about the same Summer temperatures mine does. Warm, but nothing at all like Phoenix.
Stoaty said:
edatoakrun said:
You think perhaps your LEAFs LBC might have been exaggerating your capacity loss, by just a bit? when it reported "11%" over 10 k miles?
You think it makes a difference to the driver who can only get X miles out of the Leaf before hitting Turtle?
Well, it makes a difference to me that "X miles" on my car in my most recent range test was 105.4 miles to ~VLBW, plus an unknown number of additional miles available to turtle.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=7022&start=700" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If I really thought my battery had degraded ~19.5% as indicated by my LBC, I would be very concerned.
Since my own capacity/range tests, as well as the test results from the AVTA, show the possibility of my LBC's report of ~19.5% capacity loss being correct to be remote, I'm not.