CHAdeMO bi-directional

[Marktm]

Appears that manufacturers of V2G equipment state that bi-directional DC current (via CHAdeMO) can only be obtained in 2014 Leafs and after. Does anyone know what change occurred (if this is actually true)? Will be a disappointment to me as an owner of a 2012 Leaf!

 

[edatoakrun]

Appears that manufacturers of V2G equipment state that bi-directional DC current (via CHAdeMO) can only be obtained in 2014 Leafs and after....

Source?

Nissan has been demonstrating using the LEAF as a (CHAdeMO accessable) power source since ~2011, IIRC.

 

[SageBrush]

A product is offered in Japan only so far as I know. Perhaps that is changing ?

 

[TonyWilliams]

The actual V2G spec wasn't officially release until 27 March 2017.

It would be doubtful anything previously built will work with anything except some Nissan branded product.

 

[Marktm]

Appears that manufacturers of V2G equipment state that bi-directional DC current (via CHAdeMO) can only be obtained in 2014 Leafs and after....

Source?

Nissan has been demonstrating using the LEAF as a (CHAdeMO accessable) power source since ~2011, IIRC.

I was looking into the V2H offering from Setec Power (China). I went back to the original statement from them - that the 2013 and after Leaf that will work with their 3kw "home" unit via the CHAdeMO connection - but not the 2011/2012.

 

[russellv]

Regarding the Setec Power V2H system, I accidentally bought two. Apparently I'm not clever enough to use Alibaba.com correctly. Anyone have interest in buying my second one? Around $3K with shipping. It is only 220V AC output though, so can only handle universal charging devices (most phones and laptops). Don't expect to be able to plug in your fridge.

But so far the first one works well.

Also, I can verify that only MY2013 and newer works with V2H in US/EU markets.

 

[GerryAZ]

Regarding the Setec Power V2H system, I accidentally bought two. Apparently I'm not clever enough to use Alibaba.com correctly. Anyone have interest in buying my second one? Around $3K with shipping. It is only 220V AC output though, so can only handle universal charging devices (most phones and laptops). Don't expect to be able to plug in your fridge.

But so far the first one works well.

Also, I can verify that only MY2013 and newer works with V2H in US/EU markets.

What is the power output rating of the extra unit you have? I assume 220V, 50 Hz (or would it be 240V, 60 Hz?) so it would probably work for 240V appliances that are not frequency dependent, but how many watts?

 

[russellv]

Having trouble sharing full spec for some reason, but here are the basics

AC Output Power 3kW
AC Output voltage 100-260ACV
Frequency: 50/60Hz
Current: 15A
Output voltage accurate: 200V±6%

 

[RegGuheert]

Regarding the Setec Power V2H system, I accidentally bought two. Apparently I'm not clever enough to use Alibaba.com correctly. Anyone have interest in buying my second one? Around $3K with shipping. It is only 220V AC output though, so can only handle universal charging devices (most phones and laptops). Don't expect to be able to plug in your fridge.

An autotransformer will produce split 120V/240V from 240VAC. I have a couple rated for 4500 VA which would work fine in this application. Then you could run any household device up to your output rating.

But so far the first one works well.

Good news!

Also, I can verify that only MY2013 and newer works with V2H in US/EU markets.

That counts me out.

 

[Marktm]

Also, I can verify that only MY2013 and newer works with V2H in US/EU markets.

That counts me out.

Is it possible to upgrade firmware/software/CAN protocols so that the 2011/2012 models are CHAdeMO compliant with bi-directional energy flow? If not, is there hardware replacments that can accomplish this?

 

[russellv]

Also, I can verify that only MY2013 and newer works with V2H in US/EU markets.

That counts me out.

Is it possible to upgrade firmware/software/CAN protocols so that the 2011/2012 models are CHAdeMO compliant with bi-directional energy flow? If not, is there hardware replacments that can accomplish this?

It's possible in theory, but not in practice. Software needs to be written and likely to be buggy.

 

[greenbrg]

https://www.chademo.com/portfolios/nichicon-6kw/

I sent them an email to Nichicon to see how much it costs etc... Will see.

 

[russellv]

A couple of years ago, the Nichicon was around 650,000 yen (~$6000USD)

They had one on display at CES this year making coffee.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/sites/autocar.co.uk/files/styles/gallery_slide/public/images/car-reviews/first-drives/legacy/001nissan_leaf_coffee.jpg?itok=wG_DUKap

The 3kW Setec one was $2500 so seem to run around $1/watt. Be interested to see if you get a response.

 

[JeremyW]

2011/2012 leafs only support charging via the 0.9 spec. 2013+ use 1.0 spec with V2H provisions and can supply power out. There probably exists an update for the 2011/2012s in Japan for the Nissan Leaf2Home unit. I remember reading about needing a firmware update for those cars in order to use it back when it was released. Good luck getting it over here though!

Does the Seatech unit need a 12v supply or otherwise have onboard power? In order to start the V2H session, there needs to be 12v supplied by the unit (along with CAN communications and precharging the HV bus).

 

[russellv]

Does the Seatech unit need a 12v supply or otherwise have onboard power? In order to start the V2H session, there needs to be 12v supplied by the unit (along with CAN communications and precharging the HV bus).

You are correct - it needs external power. I took apart one of the Setec Power units and there is a DC power supply in there that enables the the start of the V2H session.

 

[cwerdna]

Also, I can verify that only MY2013 and newer works with V2H in US/EU markets.

That counts me out.

Is it possible to upgrade firmware/software/CAN protocols so that the 2011/2012 models are CHAdeMO compliant with bi-directional energy flow? If not, is there hardware replacments that can accomplish this?

2011/2012 leafs only support charging via the 0.9 spec. 2013+ use 1.0 spec with V2H provisions and can supply power out. There probably exists an update for the 2011/2012s in Japan for the Nissan Leaf2Home unit. I remember reading about needing a firmware update for those cars in order to use it back when it was released. Good luck getting it over here though!

Does the Seatech unit need a 12v supply or otherwise have onboard power? In order to start the V2H session, there needs to be 12v supplied by the unit (along with CAN communications and precharging the HV bus).

Funny enough some discussion on a Chevy EV group pointed me to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hcw0f1V2BRQ. Thru that, I found https://v2gsolutions.com/ trying to pitch a Setec CHAdeMO box.

Some guy mentioned an Air Force Base study involving Leafs that I'd not known about. Googling for site:.gov air force base leaf nissan leaf grid turned up https://ww2.energy.ca.gov/2018publications/CEC-500-2018-025/CEC-500-2018-025.pdf which I've only skimmed.

LBNL procured 13 previously owned model year 2012 Nissan LEAFs (Table 2).
...
Nissan LEAFs sold in the U.S. have a software block to prevent bi-directional (i.e. battery discharging) capability. Enabling bi-directional capability in the LEAFs purchased with Energy Commission funds for the LAAFB V2G demonstration only required a software upgrade, which was performed by a Nissan technician in the field (this option is not currently available to the public). The software change consisted of upgrades to three systems: 1) lithium battery controller; 2) on-board charger; and 3) vehicle control module. The technicians who visited the Base used re-programming tools to make the upgrades. The process took about one hour per vehicle.

In addition to the changes made to the LEAFs, an additional piece of hardware was needed to enable bi-directional flow - the CHAdeMO connector, which connects the charging station and the vehicle to allow direct charge and discharge of the batteries in the EVs. This demonstration used the CHAdeMO standard version 0.9, which was developed by Nissan and Nichicon, an electrical hardware vendor, to provide a bi-directional connector for the Japanese market.

Once the software upgrade to enable bi-directionality was completed, some issues surfaced that led to delays and limited details shared about the upgrade.
...
Additionally, LBNL learned that with the software upgrade to the EVs, Nissan no longer considered the vehicles standard production models and voided the standard warranty. Under this Energy Commission agreement, LBNL purchased an extended warranty for the vehicles with some exceptions. Any issues related to the software change or discharge operation were no longer covered under the extended warranty. The software upgrades did not affect the drivability, on-road performance, or electrical safety of the LEAFs.

 

[russellv]

That's me in the video.
And when I was at Nissan, I led the LA Air Force Base V2G project. The details in that summary are mostly correct. We used MY12 Nissan LEAFs in that project so had to make some modifications that are not required for MY13+.

I'm in the process of getting more units from Setec designed for 120VAC for the US market. If anyone wants one, I'm putting in an order soon. Problem is there are very expensive with the tariffs right now. So far, no one has been as silly as me to spend $4K on one of them.

 

[Marktm]

Russell;
Good show,
Mark

 

[powersurge]

$4000 for a power inverter?

I cannot see this as mass produced product.

I can go to Harbor Freight and get a $50 1500 watt inverter for my 12 volt battery on the leaf..

may not last for weeks, but days?

 

[russellv]

Don't disagree. 12V solution is good cheap solution if you don't need to power much equipment. Like I said, so far I'm on the only idiot I've met willing to pay that much, so not a mass product so far. I think the price can get down to $2000 with volume and no tariffs. Still too much @powersurge?