CHAdeMO might not be U.S. standard?

[GrumpyCabbie]

Yes and can you get the US to also switch to the metric system while you are at it?

Amen, brother! Somewhat off topic but anytime anyone mentions international let alone american standards I think how the United States along with Myanmar (Burma) and Liberia are the only developed countries not using the International System of Units.

Looks like ElectricVehicle beat me to it!

Ah you've not included the UK. We are officially metric (sort of) but still have miles and miles per hour and fuel economy is measured in miles per gallon - though its the larger UK gallon (4.54 litres) not the smaller US gallon (3.7 liters). Bridges will still have the height measured in feet and inches alongside metric. Most people quote their height in feet and inches and weight is measured in stones (1 stone is 14 pounds http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_(Imperial_mass) )

 

[davewill]

Ah you've not included the UK. We are officially metric (sort of) but still have miles and miles per hour and fuel economy is measured in miles per gallon - though its the larger UK gallon (4.54 litres) not the smaller US gallon (3.7 liters).

Interesting. Isn't petrol sold in liters, though? Funny that the economy measure wouldn't change, but the purchase measure would.

 

[Spies]

Ah you've not included the UK. We are officially metric (sort of) but still have miles and miles per hour and fuel economy is measured in miles per gallon - though its the larger UK gallon (4.54 litres) not the smaller US gallon (3.7 liters).

Interesting. Isn't petrol sold in liters, though? Funny that the economy measure wouldn't change, but the purchase measure would.

Answers to these questions and more can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication and the links therein. Lets try to get back on topic

 

[TRONZ]

Back OT

The U.S. stands to become the China of Quick Charging... Let's see what other country is doing similar tactics around L3 charger... Hmmm.... Lemmeee think... OH! It's the US and SAE. Beautiful!... Driving me nuts!

Yes! AND China is waaaay ahead of the US on EV policies. They already have their marching orders at least.... while were still staring at a plug... "thinking about it". :roll:

Affordable EV's with easy access to L3 is THE enabling technology combination that some do NOT want to see. This combination shatters the oil monopoly but ALSO consolidates energy popularity/policy around electricity... A RENEWABLE! A renewable that anyone can make! Oooops, that great sucking sound is from money leaving the oil markets... but sure, it's all just about an L3 standard right?!?

 

[Spies]

From jcesare found at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4273&start=91

A few notes on today's event and a summary of the conversations I had with reps from Ecotailty and SDG&E.

• The QC CHAdeMO socket is being objected to by the Detroit manufactuers. They want the same footprint as the J1772 socket so they can utilize the existing openings on the side of the Volt and Focus. The other factor that is a concern is ADA compliance as it pertains to the weight of the CHAdeMO cable. They want the QC cable to be as lightweight as possible.

CHAdeMO being too heavy is an angle I had not heard discussed before. Seems like a ploy to delay adoption to me. I can hear the argument though "CHAdeMO is just too darn heavy!" I admit that I would love to have the J1772 L2 Yazaki plug and cable carry 500 V DC at 125 A for a total 62.5 kW and not increase its weight and I would also like a pony.

Do the Detroit manufacturers and SAE have a prototype at this time that even comes remotely close to meeting these requirements?

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

Affordable EV's with easy access to L3 is THE enabling technology combination that some do NOT want to see.

Bingo! This right here.

So long as EVs are struggling to find a slow 3.3kW charge where they have to suck the nipple for six hours, it's a curiosity. Practical for some, but easily disregarded by many.

When you can fully charge in 30 minutes, it's a threat to gas. There are plenty of places you stop for 30 minutes. Not so many you stop for three or four hours.

 

[EVDrive]

Affordable EV's with easy access to L3 is THE enabling technology combination that some do NOT want to see.

Bingo! This right here.

So long as EVs are struggling to find a slow 3.3kW charge where they have to suck the nipple for six hours, it's a curiosity. Practical for some, but easily disregarded by many.

When you can fully charge in 30 minutes, it's a threat to gas. There are plenty of places you stop for 30 minutes. Not so many you stop for three or four hours.

I agree, this is a sad deal. Detroit is trying to control the market and they don't have any fast charge capable skin in the game yet.
There has to be a way that we can get past the GM L3 chademo Roadblock. All they seem to have is an idea right now and an opposition plan. Sure one port for L1-L3 is a good idea but I would obviously rather go with the solution that works right now. They are fighting dirty against Nissan, trying to keep the Leaf a niche car. We can always easily upgrade the connectors in the future, getting the stations/infrastructure in is the critical part. We can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Maybe Chris Paine can make a short movie "Who is trying to kill L3 electric car charging"?

The SAE/GM roadblock is another reason I wont buy from Detroit, maybe when Ford get's their act together I would consider it, but for now... GRRR..

Any good ideas of what we can we do to move the L3 deployment along?

 

[Nekota]

So the main stated objective is

"Automotive companies are lobbying for only one opening for powering the car," Childers said, "to allow for cleaner design."

/Rant On

Given it will take 2 years to get something on paper, another year to build it and 2 years to deploy it is just about in time for Detroit to begin to make electric cars that have a battery big enough to require a quick charge. I imagine the MoTown lobbying system is pulling ADA and SAE and probably UL into it pockets but that's a lot of dinners for the next 5 years. If Nissan continues on it's current plans of 500K BEV by 2020 then there will be approximately 300K BEV expressing some demand for quick charge and the ONLY solution for the next 3 to 5 years is the bird in hand. SAE and ADA have been bought out by Detroit.

So what has happened to the California Level 3 charger? Who do we call/contact? Maybe we should show up with a few dozen LEAFs looking for a fix.

/Rant Off

Actually the connector/cable as others have pointed out is easy to change and having the Japanese version and the US version on the same charging station is very likely. Just do it. :!:

 

[EVDrive]

So the main stated objective is

"Automotive companies are lobbying for only one opening for powering the car," Childers said, "to allow for cleaner design."

/Rant On

Given it will take 2 years to get something on paper, another year to build it and 2 years to deploy it is just about in time for Detroit to begin to make electric cars that have a battery big enough to require a quick charge.

So what has happened to the California Level 3 charger? Who do we call/contact? Maybe we should show up with a few dozen LEAFs looking for a fix.

/Rant Off

Nice Rant
I'm down for a Leaf in. Were should we do it?

 

[hill]

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . snip
Do the Detroit manufacturers and SAE have a prototype at this time that even comes remotely close to meeting these requirements?

see ... therein lies the REALLY big question. Ford's Focus EV may come out with some kind of proprietary Rube Goldberg quick charge plug ... and who knows ... maybe that's why they're taking so long to advertise their EV's cost. It would be just like a U.S. company to do something like that. Heck, why pay a company like CHAdeMO any royalties for their socket, if you can re-invent the wheel, all the while screwing over the notion of a perfectly good standard - and all those folks ready / willing / and able to use it ?

 

[walterbays]

Any good ideas of what we can we do to move the L3 deployment along?

When your local BP/Arco station installs a CHAdeMO unit, go buy a charge from them and tell the manager you appreciate that they are there. When your local Cracker Barrel restaurant installs a CHAdeMO unit, go buy a charge from them, or if you don't need a charge go eat there, and tell the manager you appreciate that they have a quick charger.

 

[Boomer23]

Ford's Focus EV may come out with some kind of proprietary Rube Goldberg quick charge plug ... and who knows ... maybe that's why they're taking so long to advertise their EV's cost.

Nope, it just has the J1772, no quick charge at all.

 

[Herm]

Any good ideas of what we can we do to move the L3 deployment along?

buy more Leafs and iMievs, and ask Nissan to include the L3 port standard in all Leafs.. once you have a couple hundred thousands BEVs in the US with that plug it becomes moot. Chademo is ready now and in the market.. the longer SAE takes to decide the further along the ball rolls.. so we dont want speed

 

[hill]

I wonder if we got a large enough pool of Leafers in the S.D. / O.C. / L.A. area if we could all as a group, get 1 or 2 installed along the I.5 cortidor at what ever might be the most strategic location(s). Any other entrepeneurs feeling inspired?

 

[GeorgeParrott]

Check out this website; it is pretty depressing ....

http://www.chademo.com/

There are only a handful of CHAdeMO DC chargers operational outside Japan and Europe.

EVERYTHING I am hearing from people in the know at utility companies and government agencies around the country suggests that the U.S. is still most likely to adopt another form of DC quick charge port.

The stationary DC chargers, I am told, will be fairly easy to reconfigure for whatever plug is adopted, but the car port and interface there would be much more complicated.

OTOH, if, repeat IF enough CHAdeMO units do get installed in the next 12 months (both the SAE committees can actually make a decision against CHAdeMO), then it might be possible for the very distribution of this format to become the standard. It is not yet a "done deal" that SAE will adopt their own form, but ALL the pressure from the US car companies are pushing in that direction at this time.

 

[TomT]

/SOAPBOX ON

I'm sorry but I'm going to be VERY politically incorrect for a moment: Sometimes the ADA requirements and considerations border on the ludicrous! It is just not humanly possible, practical or feasible to make EVERYTHING equally accessible...

/SOAPBOX OFF

CHAdeMO being too heavy is an angle I had not heard discussed before. Seems like a ploy to delay adoption to me. I can hear the argument though "CHAdeMO is just too darn heavy!"

 

[oakwcj]

/SOAPBOX ON

I'm sorry but I'm going to be VERY politically incorrect for a moment: Sometimes the ADA requirements and considerations border on the ludicrous! It is just not humanly possible, practical or feasible to make EVERYTHING equally accessible...

/SOAPBOX OFF

CHAdeMO being too heavy is an angle I had not heard discussed before. Seems like a ploy to delay adoption to me. I can hear the argument though "CHAdeMO is just too darn heavy!"

The ADA only requires "reasonable accommodation." Not ludicrous at all. Just because an obstructionist company makes a ridiculous argument, ostensibly based on ADA requirements, but really meant to further its own profit motive, is no reason to bash the rather modest requirements of the ADA.

 

[edatoakrun]

GeorgeParrott

Check out this website; it is pretty depressing ....

http://www.chademo.com/

There are only a handful of CHAdeMO DC chargers operational outside Japan and Europe...

Well, it's not depressing if you live in Japan or Europe.

What is depressing is that SAE may choose a "America only" standard, driving costs up for both BEV owners and manufacturers.

How will American BEV manufactures sell cars in Europe, Asia, or South America, if they only have a single-port design? Manufacturing unique body panels, as well as the CHAdeMO ports for export markets, will not be cheap or simple.

 

[garygid]

1. There are some that I suspect DO NOT want pure EVs to become successful mainstream vehicles: BP, ENRON, GM, etc.

2. QC stations are NECESSARY for the pure EV to become mainstream.

3. How can we help the EV become a success?

A. Refuse to buy any EV that does not have a world-standard QC port. (Ford, are you there?)

B. ONLY buy Hybrids or ICEs from companies that are fully supporting the adoption of the world-wide QC standard.

C. Encourage installation of the $11k QC (still a bit high) by telling merchants about it - that it is not necessary to buy the $30k units being offered by many.

 

[edatoakrun]

1. There are some that I suspect DO NOT want pure EVs to become successful mainstream vehicles: BP, ENRON, GM, etc.

2. QC stations are NECESSARY for the pure EV to become mainstream.

3. How can we help the EV become a success?

A. Refuse to buy any EV that does not have a world-standard QC port. (Ford, are you there?)

B. ONLY buy Hybrids or ICEs from companies that are fully supporting the adoption of the world-wide QC standard.

C. Encourage installation of the $11k QC (still a bit high) by telling merchants about it - that it is not necessary to buy the $30k units being offered by many.

Please post info on an $11k QC.