CHAdeMO might not be U.S. standard?

[smkettner]

I'm sorry but I'm going to be VERY politically incorrect for a moment: Sometimes the ADA requirements and considerations border on the ludicrous! It is just not humanly possible, practical or feasible to make EVERYTHING equally accessible...

I don't think GM gives one whit about ADA compliance. It is just a card to play in the game against the competition.
As if GM was rolling out a special all electric ADA van that needed QC capabilities :lol:

 

[TomT]

Los Angeles is an example of just how far wrong so-called ADA compliance can go and simply provides fodder for my argument. We have untold numbers of patently silly ADA projects that our city has mandated and approved that provide no useable benefits to anyone except the contractors who built them. Just one example: They put in a small elevator next to a bigger one because the bigger one was "too big for ADA complaince" even though it was identically situated and accessible to the smaller one...

In government and the law, there IS no such thing as "reasonable..."

I'll shut up now...

The ADA only requires "reasonable accommodation." Not ludicrous at all. Just because an obstructionist company makes a ridiculous argument, ostensibly based on ADA requirements, but really meant to further its own profit motive, is no reason to bash the rather modest requirements of the ADA.

 

[Herm]

Another possible way to increase usage is a Manzanita Micro 50A charger that uses the Chademo port installed at your home.. then perhaps more Leaf buyers will opt out for the L3 port.. to protect future value and have another charging option.

http://www.manzanitamicro.com/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=14&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=64&vmcchk=1&Itemid=64

 

[Spies]

This all made me wonder if gasoline pumps themselves are ADA compliant and from what I can tell probably not so I see absolutely no reason that CHAdeMO should be held to different or higher standards. The following is what I was able to find on the subject.
From http://www.ada.gov/gasserve.htm

The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) requires self-serve gas stations to provide equal access to their customers with disabilities. If necessary to provide access, gas stations must -

• Provide refueling assistance upon the request of an individual with a disability. A service station or convenience store is not required to provide such service at any time that it is operating on a remote control basis with a single employee, but is encouraged to do so, if feasible.
• Let patrons know (e.g., through appropriate signs) that customers with disabilities can obtain refueling assistance by either honking or otherwise signaling an employee.
• Provide the refueling assistance without any charge beyond the self-serve price.

 

[oakwcj]

This example, if true, actually provides fodder for MY argument. The ADA requires no such thing. Show me the regulation that provides a maximum size for an elevator under the ADA and I'll eat your LEAF. Or wax it. The ADA provides a useful sword or shield for those who want to hide their true motives. The Act itself, and the implementing rules, are simply not that rigid. The ADA is one of the few significant pieces of civil rights legislation passed since the 60's and has enabled millions of people to live fuller and more productive lives. If LA chooses to mandate "silly" projects, blame LA. Don't take it out on the ADA.

Los Angeles is an example of just how far wrong so-called ADA compliance can go and simply provides fodder for my argument. We have untold numbers of patently silly ADA projects that our city has mandated and approved that provide no useable benefits to anyone except the contractors who built them. Just one example: They put in a small elevator next to a bigger one because the bigger one was "too big for ADA complaince" even though it was identically situated and accessible to the smaller one...

In government and the law, there IS no such thing as "reasonable..."

I'll shut up now...

The ADA only requires "reasonable accommodation." Not ludicrous at all. Just because an obstructionist company makes a ridiculous argument, ostensibly based on ADA requirements, but really meant to further its own profit motive, is no reason to bash the rather modest requirements of the ADA.

 

[tps]

EVERYTHING I am hearing from people in the know at utility companies and government agencies around the country suggests that the U.S. is still most likely to adopt another form of DC quick charge port.

How might this unfold? Would the utilities begin installing quick chargers using the SAE standard, even though there are no cars capable of using it, meanwhile ignoring the growing base of CHAdeMO cars? That doesn't seem likely. I think the more likely scenaro is that private companies will step up to serve the growing base of CHAdeMO cars. At the rate that Detroit is moving toward the type of BEV that would require quick charging, I think the battle will be won by CHAdeMO by default. The only chance I see of the SAE quick-charge standard catching on is some sort of backchannel politcal manuver whereby early EV mass-producers such as Nissan and Mitsubishi are convinced to switch sides and produce a US version of their vehicles with SAE quick-charge connectors.

 

[jimcmorr]

And when can we expect to see an SAE standard connector?

 

[ht2]

/SOAPBOX ON

I'm sorry but I'm going to be VERY politically incorrect for a moment: Sometimes the ADA requirements and considerations border on the ludicrous! It is just not humanly possible, practical or feasible to make EVERYTHING equally accessible...

/SOAPBOX OFF

CHAdeMO being too heavy is an angle I had not heard discussed before. Seems like a ploy to delay adoption to me. I can hear the argument though "CHAdeMO is just too darn heavy!"

The ADA only requires "reasonable accommodation." Not ludicrous at all. Just because an obstructionist company makes a ridiculous argument, ostensibly based on ADA requirements, but really meant to further its own profit motive, is no reason to bash the rather modest requirements of the ADA.

CHADEMO connector is most likely lighter then SAE J1772-DC connector.

CHADEMO is only support 2 DC lines plus small control lines plus ground but requre separate J1772 connector for AC support.
Proposed J1772-DC is using only 1 connector to support both 2 DC lines and 2 AC lines plus small control lines plus ground.

 

[Herm]

There is a thriving legal industry of ADA lawsuits.. thus many organizations, governments and companies over-react just to keep from getting sued.. its much cheaper that way.

My non-profit astronomy club runs a yearly week long star party at a campground, limited to only 600 visitors and they pay for the privilege.. we got threatened with lawsuits by a handicapped lady that does that for a "living" (with no interest in astronomy). Very scary to a small organization.

Here is a quick example from google, read the comments:

http://www.bluemaumau.org/10182/frivolous_ada_lawsuit_against_johnny_rocket_franchisee

 

[Luft]

Why doesn't Nissan front the cost of the 11K chargers and install them in their dealerships along interstate highways?? :?:

They could control the price for a charge to keep it reasonable while giving the dealership a small revenue stream and ensuring that the thousands of LEAF owners could travel long distances without fear of being stranded.

The CHAdeMO would quickly become the de facto standard, the LEAF would become much more desirable and everyone except the people using dirty tricks to suppress EVs would be happy.

 

[JohnnySebring]

Why not build chargers that supply both standards? :?

 

[Luft]

Why not build chargers that supply both standards? :?

I see a couple of problems:

1. There is no US standard right now. CHAdeMO is a standard used outside the US.

2. Other big players have a vested interest in seeing Nissan fail in this endeavor.

Nissan, I think, will be making a big mistake not to take an ultra-proactive approach in the QC distribution.

With gas prices so high, EVs can be positioned to grab huge market shares from the auto industry. Virtually all oil companies and any auto manufactures who are behind the curve can be counted on to try to delay or outright kill this movement. :evil:

 

[smkettner]

Why not build chargers that supply both standards? :?

Only one standard exists and thousands of cars have the port. There are no vehicles compatable with the unknown SAE standard.
Or does Tesla have a QC port?

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

Seriously, for the cost of a marketing campaign, Nissan could buy and install a DC QC station in every Nissan dealership.

 

[SanDust]

Only one standard exists and thousands of cars have the port. There are no vehicles compatable with the unknown SAE standard.

Or does Tesla have a QC port?

Six months ago the logic of your argument would have dictated that Nissan NOT use CHAdeMo because the Tesla standard was already in use. Why did Nissan come up with a new standard when there was already one in use?

CHAdeMo will just be one more orphaned charging standard. Hopefully the next one will be better and more adaptable so anything that supersedes it can at least be backward compatible.

 

[smkettner]

I thought Tesla power was just a fraction of the Nissan QC port :?:

 

[TEG]

Why not build chargers that supply both standards? :?

Only one standard exists and thousands of cars have the port. There are no vehicles compatable with the unknown SAE standard.
Or does Tesla have a QC port?

There is no QC port on the Tesla Roadster.
It has a J1772 like AC connector but with a Tesla proprietary end on it. (J1772 wasn't finalized when they made the Roadster.)
They sell a "straight through" adapter cable now so that you can plug a Tesla Roadster into a J1772 EVSE.
The Roadster can draw up to 70amps ( 16.8kW ) of 240VAC, so the Roadster charger is a lot more capable than the one in the Leaf.
But it still is a lot less than a 50kW CHAdeMO could provide.

Tesla's next model ("Model S") is likely to have high speed charge capability, but they haven't yet said what kind of connector or standard it will use. There are some rumors that Tesla will have some sort of proprietary socket on the Model S and will sell various adapter modules to make it interface to the best local standard. (For instance in Europe they tend to want 3phase AC charging.)
It is yet to be seen if they will support CHAdeMO or the new SAE DC add on to J1772.

 

[EVDrive]

Any good ideas of what we can we do to move the L3 deployment along?

When your local BP/Arco station installs a CHAdeMO unit, go buy a charge from them and tell the manager you appreciate that they are there. When your local Cracker Barrel restaurant installs a CHAdeMO unit, go buy a charge from them, or if you don't need a charge go eat there, and tell the manager you appreciate that they have a quick charger.

Yes for a L3 charge at Cracker Barrel. Yes for an L3 at Nissan dealerships. Yes for a charge at Fred Meyers, Trader Joes, the local town center parking lot etc.

A no thanks on BP unless they were moving the ball along and selling a solar Leaf carport.

 

[EVDrive]

Any good ideas of what we can we do to move the L3 deployment along?

buy more Leafs and iMievs, and ask Nissan to include the L3 port standard in all Leafs.. once you have a couple hundred thousands BEVs in the US with that plug it becomes moot. Chademo is ready now and in the market.. the longer SAE takes to decide the further along the ball rolls.. so we dont want speed

This is a good idea Herm; L3 quick charge ports should be standard on the Leaf, especially since Nissan won't add them after the fact. Nissan are you listening?


I went L3 port by the way which is lucky because as it turns out my Leaf runs on 440 volt DC lightning power, (it just doesn't know it yet).
A L3 charge port was the only way I would be sure that I could travel safely "back to the future" on a lightning fast charge if so needed :shock:

 

[EVDrive]

I wonder if we got a large enough pool of Leafers in the S.D. / O.C. / L.A. area if we could all as a group, get 1 or 2 installed along the I.5 cortidor at what ever might be the most strategic location(s). Any other entrepeneurs feeling inspired?

Hill, I'm interested for the Bay Area (Santa Cruz, Napa, Vacaville, Sacramento) and a few places spanning the LA area. There has to be some businesses or city owned lot's that would give/lease us a spot to install a charger or two with room to grow. Please send me a PM with your phone or email so we can chat. This offer is open to others as well.

Anyone else interested in contributing to the launch of an effort to install a few strategically placed 3 chargers? Let me know.