deciding between 2021 vs 2020 SV Plus

[esmejoy]

Newbie, about to purchase used Leaf Plus.

Priorities:
< $25,000 (will qualify for $4000 tax rebate)
SV for the adaptive cruise control and other safety features
Plus for the greater range
Not particularly interested in SL trim options

There are 2 SV Plus cars near me, very similar - both right around $21K, both at dealers with good reputations.
2020 model has 18K miles but spent first 2 years of life in Arizona.
2021 model has 27K miles but has lived whole life in Orange County, CA. (I live in northern CA, Bay Area - no heat issues for us).

These seem very similar to me -- but not sure if better bet to go with lower mileage + older + Arizona heat vs higher mileage + newer? Any thoughts? (I'm not realistically going to do the LeafSpy thing.)

TIA for any advice

 

[LeftieBiker]

The '20 Leaf is a better car, with better specs than the '21. Still, if you won't try LeafSpy Pro, the '21 is the safer bet.

 

[knightmb]

Newbie, about to purchase used Leaf Plus.

Priorities:
< $25,000 (will qualify for $4000 tax rebate)

Is this a state rebate? I thought the Leaf only qualified for rebates when new? I know the new Leafs have no tax rebate currently until something changes?

 

[esmejoy]

Thx for replies! Curious about "better specs" for 2020? I don't think I was able to find anything (or at least not anything that I understood!) about differences between those 2 model years.

Re $4k rebate - yes, Calif rebate for used EV <$25k. Doesn't have same requirement for U.S. manufacture as the $7k new rebate.

esme

 

[LeftieBiker]

Curious about "better specs" for 2020? I don't think I was able to find anything (or at least not anything that I understood!) about differences between those 2 model years.

Off the top of my head (I just got up): '20 was the last year for HD radio. The brakes may or may not be lower quality on the '21. What is certain is that they feel much weaker. I've had my '21 start to slip forward with my foot on the brake while stopped, and normal braking requires noticeably more pedal effort. This alone would have been a deal breaker for me - had I known about it.

 

[knightmb]

The brakes may or may not be lower quality on the '21. What is certain is that they feel much weaker. I've had my '21 start to slip forward with my foot on the brake while stopped, and normal braking requires noticeably more pedal effort. This alone would have been a deal breaker for me - had I known about it.

I know what you are referring to, mine does this too now. When it was new, you could feather the brake pedal and it would instantly cut off the "creep" mode where it applies 500 watts of power to the motor. Now, it takes some effort to turn off the creep mode, so if you are facing uphill or downhill and not accustomed to it, it feels the same way to me before I have to press the pedal in harder. I suspect it's just wear somewhere on the sensor that detects when the brake is pressed. I have the same issue where I press in the brake to switch to Reverse when parked and get beeped at because it wasn't detecting my brake press as I wasn't pushing in hard enough. The same switch seems to affect the brake lights, if I press the brake pedal in slowly, no brake lights activate until I do some more pedal travel. I wonder if the same switch affects all of those or is the Leaf actually measuring "brake" line pressure and working from that? It has to be a simple sensor somewhere I bet. :?

 

[esmejoy]

Ohh that's a little disconcerting! But sounds like you guys are having similar experiences with both 2020 and 2021 models? So maybe not a big difference there?

I guess I am thinking mostly - when it comes to battery life expectancy... is older (and hotter) more of a concern vs younger with more miles? Miles vs age plus do I really need to be worried about Arizona with a 2nd gen Leaf?

(Apologies to those who say "use leafspy" -- I totally get that's the "right" thing to do but don't think I have the time/energy to do it effectively. So, I also understand if the answer is "whatever, pick your poison"!

 

[LeftieBiker]

Our 2020 doesn't have weak brakes at all. Just the '21. (knight, I think it's more than a poorly programmed or manufactured sensor.) Also, the accelerator pedal mapping was changed for 2021, and Eco mode is downright sluggish in the '21 + model years. I have been driving Leafs for 10+ years, and this is the first one I've started keeping in D mode rather than Eco, just to have decent "throttle" response. I drive the '20, and the first thing I often do is go to switch it to Eco - only to see that it's already in that mode. That's how big the difference is.

Odometer mileage matters little in an EV, at least not until roughly the 100,000 mile zone. It's battery heat, and keeping a Leaf at a high state of charge that degrade it. Battery age also matters, but less than the other two factors.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Now, having done all that bitching about the '21, I should note that mine is a non-Plus Leaf - what I call an SV40. The Plus version, radio aside, may be better.

 

[Marktm]

From what I've found, the used EV tax credit is as follows:
- $4000 tax credit for qualifiers
- EV less than $25,000
- Dealer sale only (no private party)
- Limits on IRS AGI - married joint is ~$155,000 if I recall - all filing statuses are different similar to the $7500 new EV tax credit
- No EV build requirements like the new EVs have
- My impression is its a Federal policy (just about have to be for a Fed tax credit?)

On similar subject, I'm selling my 2021 Leaf SV+ with tech and some factory and dealer add-ons. MSRP was $43540. I Went to Carmax and got a quote of $18,400. Their quote did not seem to include the tech stuff nor all the add-ons. I have a 10/100k extended warranty that I'll likely buy back prorated, although it is transferable. Mileage is ~17,000. As bad as the offer is, I'm thinking that selling this vehicle private party is going to be difficult - and can be dangerous around Houston, TX!! Not going to rush it however.

BTW, the car is likely the best every day driving car I've ever owned - fast, fun and very reliable. Once I got used to the ProPilot, I use it extensively - not all the time - but when appropriate. It actually does a better job in strong cross winds than I do.

 

[cwerdna]

Newbie, about to purchase used Leaf Plus.

Priorities:
< $25,000 (will qualify for $4000 tax rebate)

Is this a state rebate? I thought the Leaf only qualified for rebates when new? I know the new Leafs have no tax rebate currently until something changes?

New Leafs purchased on/after April 18, 2023 no longer qualify for any US Federal tax credit. See https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/tax2023.shtml.

There is an up to $4K used Federal EV credit. See https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/used-clean-vehicle-credit and topics D to F of https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/topic-d-frequently-asked-questions-about-the-eligibility-rules-for-the-previously-owned-clean-vehicles-credit. It doesn't have any sort of assembly, battery components nor critical minerals requirements.

You can also check https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxused.shtml but I'm not sure why they list 2011 to 2019 Leaf SL and 2011 to 2021 Leaf SV but leave off S, 2020 and 2021 SL, etc.

 

[cwerdna]

From what I've found, the used EV tax credit is as follows:
- $4000 tax credit for qualifiers
- EV less than $25,000
- Dealer sale only (no private party)
- Limits on IRS AGI - married joint is ~$155,000 if I recall - all filing statuses are different similar to the $7500 new EV tax credit
- No EV build requirements like the new EVs have
- My impression is its a Federal policy (just about have to be for a Fed tax credit?)

Used EV credit (up to $4K) details at https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/used-clean-vehicle-credit.
"In addition, your modified adjusted gross income (AGI) may not exceed:

$150,000 for married filing jointly or a surviving spouse
$112,500 for heads of households
$75,000 for all other filers"

For new EV credit (which Leaf doesn't qualify if purchased on/after April 18, 2023), from https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/credits-for-new-clean-vehicles-purchased-in-2023-or-after:
"In addition, your modified adjusted gross income (AGI) may not exceed:

$300,000 for married couples filing jointly
$225,000 for heads of households
$150,000 for all other filers"

 

[Numbers]

My advice would be CONFIRM WITH YOUR DEALER about the used clean tax credit upfront, because you will need a managers signature on a declaration of accuracy they have provided ( https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/clean-vehicle-credit-seller-or-dealer-requirements )

I have contacted probably 12 dealers this week and 80% of them don't know about the tax credit, oddly enough don't give a **** about it , shockingly won't tale 5 minutes to read the very simple guidelines, and amazingly flat out decline to sign a piece of paper stating uncontestable facts (date of sale, sale price, vin number, battery size, and tax id).

It's actually blowing my mind how hard its been, so far only getting 2 or 3 who either know exactly how the tax credit works (and therefore advertise it) and one dealer who was willing to read the guidelines and ask for approval.

TLDR... if they aren't mentioning the tax credit in the vehicles ad, you're likely going to have a tough time getting them to do their very small part in the process.

 

[esmejoy]

!!!!!!
Wow thank you so much for this incredibly helpful advice!!

That is shocking. You'd think $4000 "discount" might help sell a car??

esme

 

[esmejoy]

Looking at the IRS website... I'm seeing the regulation about providing a report to both customer and to IRS - but I'm not seeing any actual IRS form for the dealer to complete. That doesn't make any sense either! Feel like there must be a puzzle piece missing here? 🤔

 

[Marktm]

When I had my SV+ appraised by CarMax, I brought up that they could offer qualified buyers the opportunity to get $4000 back on the deal. They basically knew nothing about it and were not interested in upping the "appraisal" either. Missing quite an opportunity to possibly lock in a sale for sure.