Deciding whether to trade in 2011 and lease 2013

[qaleaf]

I usually keep my cars forever (two other cars are a 96 and a 98 volvo) but am worried that with battery issues and advances in technology that the 2011 Leaf won't hold value very well. I can trade it in for $15K and get a 2 year lease on a 2013 S with charge option for 0 down and $179 per month (and pocket the trade in). I'm thinking yes, but would like other opinions. VPP + Loyalty + Fed rebate applied.

2011 leaf is a SL, 5300 miles, excellent condition, extended warranty

WA state, so no sales tax on EVs.

 

[cwerdna]

Can you update your location info via User Control Panel (near top) > Profile (left side)? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

What part of WA are you in ? If you're in Western WA, I wouldn't be worried about very rapid battery degradation. But, if you're in Eastern WA, that's a different story. (I lived in the Seattle area for over 9 years.)

BTW, since your post is basically a dupe of another, I suspect 1 will get locked or the threads will get merged.

You have really low mileage on your current Leaf.... That's taking quite a bath on your 1st Leaf. You might be able to get a little more selling it privately. And, the S w/charge package is step back from your SL. You won't have nav, Carwings, alloy wheels, very good charging timers (you probably don't care), cruise control nor LED headlights. You'll also be stuck w/the same power hungry heater instead of the heat pump one. The stereo might be a step down too. And, you'll probably want to buy a cargo cover since the S and SV don't come with it.

And, you'll only have the black interior as a choice. I've seen the black interior the SV and don't like it and don't like black interiors, in general.

 

[qaleaf]

Very good points, thanks for your thoughts. I also have aftermarket heated leather seats in the 2011. So I guess the main factor in deciding on the trade in/lease is cutting losses now rather than risking functional decline that will make the car of limited use. If it stays close to current status I will keep it long term as we really like it.

It is garaged at work and home, nearly always only charged to 80% and that probably only every 3-4 days, no QC. Sounds like you're optimistic about the batteries.

 

[qaleaf]

Also, sorry, yes, I did initially post in the general forum then discovered this one. Can I delete the other one?

 

[cwerdna]

It is garaged at work and home, nearly always only charged to 80% and that probably only every 3-4 days, no QC. Sounds like you're optimistic about the batteries.

Yes, for the Seattle area, and given your treatment, yes.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=12781" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; finally lost a capacity bar after 78,600 miles over ~2 years.

If you were in a hotter climate (esp. very hot ones like Phoenix), I would be pretty pessimistic about the batteries. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Battery_Capacity_Loss#Real_World_Battery_Capacity_Losses" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

I guess it depends on how long you plan to keep the car and what your future range needs will be. There's also the question of whether you think it's worth it to pay ~$4300 for the lease + $395 disposition fee (unless you buy the car out at the end or lease another Nissan) + cargo cover price vs. further depreciation on your current Leaf, possible out of warranty repairs and the need for new tires if you suddenly rack up a lot of miles. Good thing is that the new car will start over w/a full warranty and new tires.

One issue w/leasing (my Leaf is my 1st lease ever) is I'm now even more paranoid about door dings and any damage or spills. I don't want to get dinged for too much/anything at lease end.

Another plus (of many w/leasing) though is I don't care much about the babying battery. At work, charging is free but there are more EVs/PHEVs than EVSEs, so it'd best to cooperate w/sharing. I just charge to 100% at work and don't care if it sits the rest of the day @ work at 100%. If I owned, I wouldn't do that. I'd probably only charge to 80% @ work and/or minimize the sitting at 100%.

 

[qaleaf]

So, what about this logic -- I get 16K or whatever from the trade in and pay about 4000 over the term of the lease (or somewhat more), then have about 12K at the end to either buy the 2013 or walk away. So I could end up with a 2013 long term for close to no cost? If the 2013 S is a step down from my 2011 SL then maybe that's not a great trade off but it is newer, with longer range.

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
'13 Leaf doesn't have any significant range difference vs. the '11 and '12. But, at least you'd be starting over w/a new battery vs. one that has degraded somewhat.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=11682" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=273048" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From what I understand, the charging timers are WAY more awkward to operate on the S model as you have to do it all from the dash b&w display. But, it probably is irrelevant for your area and your needs.

Heck, I've not even turned on the timers on mine and it sounds like they're quirky anyway.

 

[RonDawg]

Another thing to consider is how far is your daily commute? If it's well less than 50 miles/day I think you're doing yourself a financial disservice by trading in a perfectly good, low mileage, likely minimal battery-degradation Leaf and then leasing a brand new one with less features that you will have to give back after 2 years. With as few miles as you have accrued so far (mine, leased just last January, already has over 6k miles), it sounds like your commute is quite minimal.

I mention 50 miles because that is the expected range of a Leaf whose battery that has degraded to 70% capacity (73 EPA-rated miles times 0.7). This is the point where the battery capacity warranty is invoked if it occurs before 5 years or 60k miles have elapsed.

If you lived in Phoenix, Las Vegas, or Dallas-Ft. Worth your concerns about the battery are founded. But in western Washington, Oregon, or far northwestern California the cool summer conditions and moderate winters are ideal for battery life. The battery aging model (from the Leaf Wiki) predicts you won't hit that 70% mark for over 12 years as long as you don't move to a warmer climate.

If you insist on throwing money down the drain, perhaps wait for Nissan's battery leasing program to come out. Putting $4300 from leasing the 2013, plus whatever you'd lose on depreciation on the 2011, towards this program would gain you years more life on the 2011. But wait until there is significant battery capacity loss first, since you will get no credit for doing this when the battery has more than 70% capacity.

 

[Deleted member 9549]

Another thing to consider is how far is your daily commute? If it's well less than 50 miles/day I think you're doing yourself a financial disservice by trading in a perfectly good, low mileage, likely minimal battery-degradation Leaf and then leasing a brand new one with less features that you will have to give back after 2 years.

+1

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

5300 miles in 2 years of driving tells me that you want to hold onto what you got. it will likely take 7+ years before battery issues become a problem.

but also keep in mind besides cycling and heat, time is also a factor in degradation. Steve lost a bar at 78,000 miles but we also have people who lost a bar at 42,000 and I might lose one around that mileage also.

But if the range is not restricting your driving at 80% charging, I think your concerns about "old tech" is misguided especially if considering an S that really does have old tech

 

[qaleaf]

Thanks all. Your input is much appreciated. My usual daily commute is 6 miles but of course I appreciate a vehicle that can go beyond that when needed. That said, between our two cars, if one is fairly significantly limited in terms of range we can deal with it. Sounds like I should hold on to my 2011.

 

[qaleaf]

Thanks all. I appreciate your thoughts. We've decided to hang on to the 2011.

 

[RonDawg]

:up:

 

[smkettner]

+1 for staying with 2011

 

[Reddy]

5300 miles in 2 years of driving tells me that you want to hold onto what you got. it will likely take 7+ years before battery issues become a problem.

but also keep in mind besides cycling and heat, time is also a factor in degradation. Steve lost a bar at 78,000 miles but we also have people who lost a bar at 42,000 and I might lose one around that mileage also.

But if the range is not restricting your driving at 80% charging, I think your concerns about "old tech" is misguided especially if considering an S that really does have old tech

I agree with Dave and just about everyone else. With your driving and location, keep it. I'm in the hottest part of WA (SE Tri-Cities). I have 13,500 mi in two years, and still have all twelve battery bars (I need to do another range test, but I think I'm down about 10%). With my 8 mi RT commute and bicycling most of the year, I expect to keep it forever and find it will still be useful at 150,000 mi and 20 years.

 

[Valdemar]

I have the same dilemma but the situation is a bit different. Currently '11 with 34k miles, 1 bar loss, I'll be lucky to get $14k on a trade-in. My total daily commute will soon be 65-70 miles, still doable on a full charge but who knows for how much longer. I can charge at work at $2/hr (ouch), so soon I'll be looking at additional $50/mo for charging there at minimum. I'd be getting an SV or SL on a high-mileage lease 20k/year, but with the VPP and loyalty discounts I expect my out of pocket expense for a 24-mo lease to be around $8-9k however I will need to repay a portion of CVRP rebate back (guessing $800). I don't really know how much I will be able to sell my Leaf for in 2 years but considering a seemingly realistic number of $5,000 it seems there is no significant financial benefit in leasing a '13 now. Plus if I lease I will have to find a new car in 2 years again, vs. keeping my current Leaf longer if it still works for my needs then. Thoughts?

 

[supra410]

I have the same dilemma but the situation is a bit different. Currently '11 with 34k miles, 1 bar loss, I'll be lucky to get $14k on a trade-in. My total daily commute will soon be 65-70 miles, still doable on a full charge but who knows for how much longer. I can charge at work at $2/hr (ouch), so soon I'll be looking at additional $50/mo for charging there at minimum. I'd be getting an SV or SL on a high-mileage lease 20k/year, but with the VPP and loyalty discounts I expect my out of pocket expense for a 24-mo lease to be around $8-9k however I will need to repay a portion of CVRP rebate back (guessing $800). I don't really know how much I will be able to sell my Leaf in 2 years but considering a seemingly realistic number of $5,000 it seems there is no significant financial benefit in leasing a '13 now. Plus if I lease I will have to find a new car in 2 years again, vs. keeping my current Leaf longer if it still works for my needs then. Thoughts?

Time for a Prius C. I would say drive your current Leaf as long as you can until the range loss is too much to handle. Maybe a couple years down the road Nissan will engineer things like thermal management or higher cap batteries. 2bucks an hour stinks! Kind of takes away the enjoyment of an EV. With that kind of daily commute, I would definitely look into a different car than another Leaf. Like you mentioned, you will be in the same boat again. Maybe get a Versa S. its a manual transmission, but only retails for $12k

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
Personally, I'm not a fan of the Prius c. I wouldn't buy one, for reasons too numerous for me to list right now. I'd rather have the regular Prius (aka liftback), a PiP (if I wanted HOV lane access), maybe a Volt :shock:, or a HyCam (I'm ok w/taking the mileage hit in exchange for way better acceleration... Prius is rather wimpy in that dept).

 

[Valdemar]

I also don't like the Prius, the C variant especially. I wish the Volt was available with a 7kW OBC. As for $2/hr, yes it is pretty bad, but I'm glad I have this option. It would have been much worse if charing was free, with at least a dozen plug-ins in our parking structure plug sharing would be an issue. At least I have a peace of mind knowing charger availability is not an issue after seeing all 4 plugs unused pretty much daily since they were installed 2 months back .

 

[DaveEV]

I have the same dilemma but the situation is a bit different. Currently '11 with 34k miles, 1 bar loss, I'll be lucky to get $14k on a trade-in. My total daily commute will soon be 65-70 miles, still doable on a full charge but who knows for how much longer. I can charge at work at $2/hr (ouch), so soon I'll be looking at additional $50/mo for charging there at minimum.
...
Thoughts?

Keep the '11 and charge at work as needed. Even at $2/hour it's more economical than getting a new LEAF or any other vehicle unless you have to charge for more than 2 hours/day. It must be some sort of Chargepoint station to cost $2/hour? At $2/hour hopefully it doesn't round up to the next hour?