ECOtality Level 2 charger : Blink

[DaveEV]

Sparky is measuring 11-13w with a TED:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=692&start=440

Yep, that is way too high. Especially considering that most of these will be plugged into a TOU meter which means that when it's not plugged in you will be getting charged 2-4x more.

For example, the current SDGE TOU rates are super-off-peak 12am-5am 14.7c / kWh, peak rates 12pm-6pm 25.8c / kWh and all other times are 16.7 kWh. (EV project rates are slightly different - can't find them right now, so we'll use these)

Assuming that the average vampire draw is 12w you end up with this much power in each time slot/day per year:

super-off-peak: 21.9 kWh $3.22
off-peak: 56.9 kWh $9.50
peak: 26.3 kWh $6.79
total: 105.1 kWh $19.51

So sure, it's not a TON of money/electricity, but it all adds up. Especially when you consider that the ClipperCreek unit basically has no vampire draw (someone didn't note any peak usage for a full month of the CC)...

 

[DaveEV]

11-13w is not acceptable. Looks like a hard switch is in order.

Most installs seem to require a manual disconnect switch to be installed... but don't know how close to the EVSE they are typically installed.

 

[leafme]

I have to be honest: I have no problem with that and really don't give a crap! I have more important things in my life to worry about than whether or not my EVSE is pulling 12 watts at idle! And, hey, I leave both my Dish DVRs and all my internet/network equipment on 24/7 too!

Sparky is measuring 11-13w with a TED:
So, definitely better than the reported (by the manufacturer) 30w, but as he says, still too high.

I sorta agree with you mogur. As I see it I'm getting a free $2,200 or so Blink so I'm saving a lot already. It is a waste however (yeah I'm planning on giving up my "always-on" dvrs too since I quit my TV since it was a waste for for only PBS and modern marvels which I can get on netflix anyway) so my plan is to trade the Blink at the end of the project when it will be mine for the simplest, lowest powered evse I can find. The car has all the brains I'm gonna need to charge it already. I already know the lowest rate period so why d I need a fancy evse that can do things I don't need?

Malcolm

 

[leafme]

So sure, it's not a TON of money/electricity, but it all adds up. Especially when you consider that the ClipperCreek unit basically has no vampire draw (someone didn't note any peak usage for a full month of the CC)...

My clipper creek has a standby power use (when not connected to the vehicle) of 15.8w as measured by the Dranetz PowerXplorer power quality monitor that SDG&E has hooked up to it right now.

Malcolm

 

[DaveEV]

My clipper creek has a standby power use (when not connected to the vehicle) of 15.8w as measured by the Dranetz PowerXplorer power quality monitor that SDG&E has hooked up to it right now.

Darn - so I wonder why the other guy didn't have any power show up in his peak tier? Faulty meter?

BTW - why did SDGE install that PowerXplorer - is that permanent?

Edit: It was Randy that reported nothing except super-off-peak power usage with his ClipperCreek EVSE:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=59563#p59563

All his power usage was recorded super-off-peak.

If the Blink really draws 12W all the time (and it seems that it should with the LCD on all the time) he should have recorded about 4.5kWh of non-super-off-peak usage.

 

[Randy]

Super off-peak, to be exact....

But, correct, it was all zeroes for usage during the other time periods from 1/12 through 2/1.

 

[DaveEV]

Super off-peak, to be exact....

Thanks, edited my post.

But, correct, it was all zeroes for usage during the other time periods from 1/12 through 2/1.

That's about 20 days - at 10 watts for 19 hours/day (non-super-off-peak) that should be about 4.5 kWh.

Even revenue grade meters are known to be less accurate at very low power draws - I wonder if the meter just doesn't pick up anything under 15-20 W or something?

What kind of meter is the 2nd meter? Is it digital or a spinning dial?

This vampire load should still show up on the main meter since the load there are enough vampires there that it would be picked up.

I guess we'll know soon enough as more people get their bills...

 

[evnow]

11-13w is not acceptable. Looks like a hard switch is in order. My comcast box draws around 30w on or off! So, I have it plugged in to an outlet strip with a switch along with my other A/V equipment(pre/power amp, dvd, roku, etc) saves me quite a few bucks per year. Kill-a-watt is a nice tool to have around. On the other hand, my wifi laser printer draws about 1-2watts on stand-by, but I still turn it off. :lol:

Thing with DVRs is that you can't switch them off. Same with the cable boxes / routers ( VOIP phone !).

BTW, if you are charging several hours daily, that 130kwh per year should be reduced correspondingly.

 

[leafme]

My clipper creek has a standby power use (when not connected to the vehicle) of 15.8w as measured by the Dranetz PowerXplorer power quality monitor that SDG&E has hooked up to it right now.

Darn - so I wonder why the other guy didn't have any power show up in his peak tier? Faulty meter?

BTW - why did SDGE install that PowerXplorer - is that permanent?

Edit: It was Randy that reported nothing except super-off-peak power usage with his ClipperCreek EVSE:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=59563#p59563

All his power usage was recorded super-off-peak.

If the Blink really draws 12W all the time (and it seems that it should with the LCD on all the time) he should have recorded about 4.5kWh of non-super-off-peak usage.

No, not permanent. I volunteered to have mine monitored as well as the street transformer they own since SDG&E's other options were drying up with non deliveries and they are as interested in learning as much about this stuff as we are.

Rather than your 4.5kwh for the month (though it may not have been a month exactly) I get 12*(24-5)*30.4375/1000=6.9kwh (or at 15.8w for ccreek = 9.1kwh). In any case, I'm as surprised as you that Randy was not billed for this evse "keep awake" (or vampire) energy for the 19 non super off-peak hrs. Hmmm... Got me on that one for sure.

Malcolm

 

[DaveEV]

Thing with DVRs is that you can't switch them off. Same with the cable boxes / routers ( VOIP phone !).

My DVR is set up to auto-shutdown whenever it's not recording or in use. And when it's time to record something, it powers back on. It's also plugged into a smart power-strip that turns off all other peripherals which are only used when the DVR is on.

 

[wsbca]

So sure, it's not a TON of money/electricity, but it all adds up. Especially when you consider that the ClipperCreek unit basically has no vampire draw (someone didn't note any peak usage for a full month of the CC)...

My clipper creek has a standby power use (when not connected to the vehicle) of 15.8w as measured by the Dranetz PowerXplorer power quality monitor that SDG&E has hooked up to it right now.

Malcolm

Interesting, and confusing... Jimmy was measuring 5w (via TED) on his CC:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2229&start=1

If 15.8 for the CC is the more accurate figure, then 13 for the Blink, with all its features, would have to be considered relatively good I suppose. But the lack of measured anything-but-super-off-peak usage for Randy on his CC is definitely confounding. Could/would they really have adjusted the EV-only second meter to be generally unresponsive to small loads (or more oddly, perfectly tuned to omit the standby load of that single specific device)? That _seems_ unlikely, and regardless would not apply to single meter installations. Malcom - the Dranetz appears to be some sort of inline device rather than a clamp-on ammeter like the TED, is that the case? I guess something like that would probably be more accurate.

 

[leafme]

11-13w is not acceptable. Looks like a hard switch is in order. My comcast box draws around 30w on or off! So, I have it plugged in to an outlet strip with a switch along with my other A/V equipment(pre/power amp, dvd, roku, etc) saves me quite a few bucks per year. Kill-a-watt is a nice tool to have around. On the other hand, my wifi laser printer draws about 1-2watts on stand-by, but I still turn it off. :lol:

Thing with DVRs is that you can't switch them off. Same with the cable boxes / routers ( VOIP phone !).

BTW, if you are charging several hours daily, that 130kwh per year should be reduced correspondingly.

If it's truly quiescent power I don't see it being a function of charging the vehicle. I see it as "keep alive" power that is being "used" for all time the evse is powered. If so, now I can see a value in a separate switch to turn off the evse when not in use but EV Project participants can't do this until it is over in 2 or so years. If you are on the EV Project and are getting a free blink, you signed a contract to that effect.

Malcolm

 

[Randy]

I originally had a SDGE-supplied "SmartMeter" before the EVSE 2nd meter was installed. At that time, SDG&E swapped out my first meter and added the second meter, and they are GE IDR meters. They are digital, no spinning dials.....The vampire load thing reminds me of some water meters that don't register small flows, but you would think that those GE IDR meters would pick it up.

It did say on my bill that is was a "corrected" bill, but I just assumed that they tweaked it because it was my first one with the second meter.

So far in February I have charged all at Super Off Peak except for two hours one morning because I needed the juice and I set my timer incorrectly from the night before. So I should have a few kwh on the "off-peak" period because of that for sure.....Otherwise, it's all Super Off Peak for me.....

Randy

 

[DaveEV]

Interesting, and confusing... Jimmy was measuring 5w (via TED) on his CC:

But who knows how accurate the TED is at those levels, too...

But the lack of measured anything-but-super-off-peak usage for Randy on his CC is definitely confounding. Could/would they really have adjusted the EV-only second meter to be generally unresponsive to small loads (or more oddly, perfectly tuned to omit the standby load of that single specific device)?

No, it's common for meters to read low at very low power levels - especially as they age. This caused part of the initial uproar over smartmeter installations when people complained that their bills jumped after getting a smartmeter - it turns out that the old meters were reading low in a lot of those cases.

Malcom - the Dranetz appears to be some sort of inline device rather than a clamp-on ammeter like the TED, is that the case?

No, it uses CTs to measure current as well.

Which brings up the question: Are we sure the Dranetz was measuring actual power or reactive power (it can do both)? I know the TED automatically corrects reactive power readings to actual power.

 

[leafme]

My clipper creek has a standby power use (when not connected to the vehicle) of 15.8w as measured by the Dranetz PowerXplorer power quality monitor that SDG&E has hooked up to it right now.

Malcolm

Interesting, and confusing... Jimmy was measuring 5w (via TED) on his CC:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2229&start=1

If 15.8 for the CC is the more accurate figure, then 13 for the Blink, with all its features, would have to be considered relatively good I suppose. But the lack of measured anything-but-super-off-peak usage for Randy on his CC is definitely confounding. Could/would they really have adjusted the EV-only second meter to be generally unresponsive to small loads (or more oddly, perfectly tuned to omit the standby load of that single specific device)? That _seems_ unlikely, and regardless would not apply to single meter installations. Malcom - the Dranetz appears to be some sort of inline device rather than a clamp-on ammeter like the TED, is that the case? I guess something like that would probably be more accurate.

Confounding indeed. Cannot imagine the EVSE meter is anything other than accurate since revenue is involved here. As far as the power quality meter is concerned it may not be measuring the 15w very well since it is using a 300A CT (I missed that one). Before they remove it I'll get a better quiescent load measurement using a smaller CT. This definitely puts my 15w measurement in question.

The Dranetz power quality monitor is a 3 phase power quality monitor with all kinds of measuring goodies (it's in the 10k$ range). Measuring power is a snap since it can easily measure the angle between the voltage and current phasors. Using a 300A CT you can only really see the charging characteristics at 16A which was the reason to set it in the first place. A 30A CT might have been a better choice but then some spikes might have been missed. There is also one sitting inside the SDG&E transformer on the street feeding 7 homes including mine me so SDG&E can correlate the two measurements.

http://www.tequipment.net/dranetzpowerxplorerpx5.html

Malcolm

 

[Skywagon]

Those of you that have a Blink installed make sure you have network connectivity and/or check to see if your software updated. We can now track power usage as recorded by the Blink's internal power meter along with setting a $/kWH to see what each charge is costing us. You will know immediately if you have the latest revision as you will have more information on your home screen (on the right) along with a new menu tab at the top.

 

[evnow]

Those of you that have a Blink installed make sure you have network connectivity and/or check to see if your software updated. We can now track power usage as recorded by the Blink's internal power meter along with setting a $/kWH to see what each charge is costing us. You will know immediately if you have the latest revision as you will have more information on your home screen (on the right) along with a new menu tab at the top.

Screen shots ?

Does it should kwh used for each charge - how about miles ?

 

[sparky]

Screen shots ?

Does it should kwh used for each charge - how about miles ?

It won't accept my price/kWh yet but here's the other stuff.
Blink firmware is getting better. I've been emailing them error screens and describing issues (mostly minor) for awhile.
Today was the first wireless update they've done as far as I know. It's got the data for January also, so it's been keeping track.
When I add in the ~11W standby power for the Blink, my TED device is within 4kWh of the Blink's energy reading for this month...~3% error, not bad.
(sorry about the blurry)



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

[DaveEV]

Nice - does it let you set TOU rates as well?

 

[sparky]

Nice - does it let you set TOU rates as well?

Yup. I can't set the rates to anything but '0' with this version though.