EVSE question

[r1234567]

I have a Leaf S with QC which we are leasing. Our next car after this will also be an EV, perhaps a Tesla, who knows so I'd rather put in a unit now and take advantage of tax credits versus upgrading the cable. I know IL offers a tax credit, can I get a federal credit as well?

I'm having an electrician come out tonight to give me a quote on installing an EVSE. Which unit (ClipperCreek, Bosch, Leviton?) do I want and what exactly should I be asking to be put in my garage? My house is about 30+ years old and at one time there was an electric dryer but I don't know if he can leverage that outlet from the laundry room into the garage. I saw some suggestions in a different thread but since I don't have solar panels and I don't think that is an option in my area, I wasn't sure if the suggestions were still appropriate.

 

[smkettner]

If you will be extending the 30a dryer circuit I would look at Clippercreek LCS-25

For Tesla you may want to pull a 50amp circuit. Dual chargers a 100 amp circuit.

If you pull wire from the main panel go at least 50a circuit. If you do this consider a Leviton 40 amp unit. This would work well now and with Tesla.

 

[ttime4four]

If you pull wire from the main panel go at least 50a circuit. If you do this consider a Leviton 40 amp unit. This would work well now and with Tesla.

I recently picked up my Leaf and have a 240/50A "welding" circuit in my garage. I'm looking for the best solution that will take advantage of QC and be "future proof" as I will be looking at the Tesla when they come out with a 3-series equivalent.

So, which Leviton specifically?

http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-EVB40-PST-Charging-Station-Installation/dp/B00DG1479A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1381859812&sr=8-1&keywords=leviton+evse+40a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BQ7DG7A/ref=s9_simh_gw_p60_d0_i2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0QJDJXE6YFQ057BRSKNS&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1630083502&pf_rd_i=507846" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[RonDawg]

If you will be extending the 30a dryer circuit I would look at Clippercreek LCS-25

For Tesla you may want to pull a 50amp circuit. Dual chargers a 100 amp circuit.

If you pull wire from the main panel go at least 50a circuit. If you do this consider a Leviton 40 amp unit. This would work well now and with Tesla.

My understanding is that the Tesla comes with a dual-voltage portable EVSE that can supply up to 40 amps. If that's so, it's cheaper just to wire the circuit for 50 amps, put in an appropriate plug, and buy a plug-in unit like the Clipper Creek LCS_25P ($549) for the Leaf rather than spend extra money for the Leviton 40 amp unit which would be redundant on the Tesla, unless you don't want to be constantly stowing the portable EVSE.

 

[smkettner]

The first one. EVB40

 

[davewill]

... I'm looking for the best solution that will take advantage of QC and be "future proof" ...

There isn't any way to "take advantage of QC" at home. QC is high voltage DC. All at home charging is regular 120v or 240v AC.

 

[r1234567]

I mentioned the QC because the S base version has a 3.3 versus 6.6 so that would impact which EVSE I purchase.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Looks like clipper creek is still running their sale for $495. Seems like you couldn't go too wrong there.

 

[loomis2]

I have the Seimens: http://www.amazon.com/Siemens-VC30B...ric-Vehicle/dp/B0083ZZFEA/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hi_1.

I haven't seen the Clipper Creek one, but if it is only $495 that may be your best choice.

 

[dgpcolorado]

I mentioned the QC because the S base version has a 3.3 versus 6.6 so that would impact which EVSE I purchase.

It doesn't have to affect the L2 EVSE you use. The real advantage of the 6.0 kW on-board-charger (OBC) is that it will speed up L2 opportunity charges away from home. At home faster charging usually isn't necessary since the car will fully charge overnight with either a 16-20 Amp EVSE or a 30 Amp EVSE. Does it really matter if the car charges in three hours or five hours? For most LEAF drivers the answer is "no".

 

[MikeD]

I believe most people can make do with only a ~16a 240v home charging station, which is much more likely to be installable at a reasonable cost (and even perhaps allow for a second charging station without exceeding your service capacity). In an overnight 8 hour charging session one can easily transfer up to at least 24 kWh of charge (if your future car can accept that much), which translates into over 90 mi of range (assuming you average 4 mi/kWh).

Faster charging is imho much more useful away from home when you have less time to spend charging at a public charging station.

Such a home charging station could be wired with only NM 12/2 cable (i.e. two 120 v hot wires and a ground), which increases the possibility that an existing circuit could be re-purposed for this charging station.

 

[davewill]

I mentioned the QC because the S base version has a 3.3 versus 6.6 so that would impact which EVSE I purchase.

Either a 30a or 40a EVSE will max out the 6.0kW charger, so you're good to go there.

 

[planet4ever]

As dpcolorado and MikeD said, most people don't need to max out their charging rate at home. Now, if you do get that Tesla and plan to drive it more than 100 miles/day, that's another story. But silly as it might sound, a 16A EVSE will keep even a Tesla charged if you can leave it plugged in 10 hours a night and don't go over 100 miles average per day.

So for r1234567, go ahead and use that electric dryer outlet with either the Clipper Creek LCS-25 or the EVSE Upgrade, both of which run at 20A. No electrician needed. Yes, there is an EVSE federal tax credit that expires at the end of this year, but it is only 30% of your cost, so doesn't really amount to all that much. Would you rather pay three or four hundred dollars net out of pocket for 20A or pay $900 to $1200 (including wiring) net for a 30A or 40A setup that does basically the same thing?

Ray

 

[r1234567]

Does anyone have a link to the federal 30% tax credit? Can I get that and the 50% Illinois Infrastructure Rebate Program?

http://www.ildceo.net/dceo/Bureaus/Energy_Recycling/ev.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm not sure if the dryer outlet can be used since it's in the laundry room and I want the connection in my garage. If I have to pay an electrician to move the line, I want to ask him how much more to put something in that's faster. I just don't know what I should be asking him to put in.

Someone upthread said that a future Tesla would require using the cable from the car and my husband would be very annoyed having to pack it up every night to have with him.

 

[smkettner]

If pulling wire from the panel put in a 50 amp 240v circuit. This is very ordinary for the electrician.

Also keep in mind LEAF port is in the front and Tesla is left rear. So position accordingly.

 

[RonDawg]

Does anyone have a link to the federal 30% tax credit?

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8911.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm not sure if the dryer outlet can be used since it's in the laundry room and I want the connection in my garage. If I have to pay an electrician to move the line, I want to ask him how much more to put something in that's faster. I just don't know what I should be asking him to put in.

I would get quotes for the following:

1. Outlet with a 20 amp rating, allowing a 16 amp plug-in EVSE
2. Outlet with a 30 amp rating, allowing up to a 24 amp EVSE (though I don't know of any, just the 20 amp Clipper Creek LCS-25)
3. Outlet with a 40 ramp rating, allowing up to a 32 amp EVSE (a few of which do exist, but 30 amp models are more widely available)
4. Outlet with a 50 amp rating, allowing up to a 40 amp EVSE (which is what the Tesla comes with)

There will be a point somewhere in there where the cost jumps up significantly, depending on the electric service you have now. You might be able to easily add a 20 or 30 amp circuit with no problem, especially with an unused dryer circuit. Once you get into the 40 or 50 amp though, that could require expensive upgrades to your electrical service, such as changing out the panel and perhaps even upgrading the "drop" (feed from the utility).

However, if even adding just a 20 amp circuit will require all sorts of upgrades and other work, planning for future expansion will not cost significantly more.

You'll notice there's a gap between the circuit rating and what EVSE it will support. It is required by code that you not continuously use more than 80% of a circuit's rated capacity.

Someone upthread said that a future Tesla would require using the cable from the car and my husband would be very annoyed having to pack it up every night to have with him.

That is me and you would only have to do that if you needed to charge the Tesla away from home. When I relied primarily on 120 volt charging at home, I simply left the portable EVSE in my garage. I only packed it up if I suspected I would need it at my destination.

Also, the Tesla is compatible with the J1772 charging handle using an adapter, which is included with the car. You don't have to use the included EVSE, but if you don't have to spend the extra money, why should you?

Unless you have access to at least a 240 volt, 16 amp outlet at your destination, there's little point in plugging in a Tesla EVSE there. Using a 120 volt outlet, it would take FOREVER to fully charge the car, especially if it has the most expensive battery option. A fully depleted Leaf battery, much smaller in capacity than anything Tesla offers, already takes 20 hours to fully recharge using 120 volts.

 

[Ingineer]

I'd recommend having him install a NEMA 6-50 (50A 240V) outlet if you can install an additional 50A circuit. If you can only do a 30A (relocating the dryer circuit), I'd do a L6-30 outlet. It fits our unit and Clipper Creek's directly (no adapters needed).

You can then have many EVSE's to choose from. If you ever get a Tesla, the EVSE that comes with the car will plug in to the 6-50. You could also save your money and have your LEAF's EVSE upgraded for $287 and then throw in a $30 6-50 adapter. Save your money on an installed EVSE, they will likely be cheaper and have more features in the future. You'll be able to install one yourself that simply plugs into the 6-50 outlet.

You'll also be able to sell the upgraded EVSE if you ever want to trade up.

-Phil

 

[r1234567]

Thank you everyone!

The electrician came out and he said it would be cheaper to just add to our existing panel which is already in our garage and has space to upgrade. He said the labor charge is the same whether he puts in a 30a or 50a so we are going to go with the 50a.

Phil - If I buy your upgrade and the 6-50 adapter will I be charging at 40 or at 20?

 

[smkettner]

20 and is plenty fast in most conditions.

 

[Ingineer]

Thank you everyone!

The electrician came out and he said it would be cheaper to just add to our existing panel which is already in our garage and has space to upgrade. He said the labor charge is the same whether he puts in a 30a or 50a so we are going to go with the 50a.

Phil - If I buy your upgrade and the 6-50 adapter will I be charging at 40 or at 20?

Our upgrade is only approved for 20A max in the US. The 2013 LEAF with charging package is only capable of around 27 amps max, so no matter what EVSE you choose, that's the most you can get. The upgrade fully charges in under 5 hours. (usually around 4)

The National Electrical code 125% rule requires circuits/outlets for continuous loads be rated at 125% of the continuous load, so the minimum circuit the upgrade can charge at full speed on is 24A. This is why we equip it with an L6-30 (30A) plug. It is fully user-adjustable from 6 to 20 amps (US) in 1 amp increments, so if you ever have to charge on a smaller capacity circuit, you can. (such as when using a Quick220 device)

-Phil