Fast charger for Type1 with 2-phase or 3-phase source

[Piro]

I have built for my Leafs an alternative to factory AC charger Type1 (Leaf), and the only 3-phase charger for Type1. It can balance load on 2 or 3 phases (depending on version), enabling charging with full speed (3,6 kW, 4,8 kW, 7,2 kW) using equal current on each phase.

Do you think that there is any market for that?
I will explain you my situation:
In Poland, there is a common thing to have 3phase at home (except flats) but it is as standard limited to 14,5A per phase (16A fuses). So max power per phase is 3,2 kW or so.
I have built a charger, that (1) if connected to typical 220-230V monophase gives you 10A or 13A (boost mode) charging. This is like 2.2 kW standard car charger.
But if you connect it to 3-phase (N- line is not needed) it can use 2 phases or 3 phases and equalize them to generate one monophase source, lets name it "superphase" - like having 3 x 10A from all 3 phases to one super 30A monophase.
It works for me, I can charge with speeds like 4,8 kW at home, loading phases less than one factory charger.
Complete solution has display with kwh charged, voltage, amperage and actual kw - and Type1 plug.
It can be also used at Type2 piles, that have 11kW - then you can charge leaf with max speed if you have doubled charger onboard. For 22kW piles (32A per phase) there is no gain at all.

What do you think? Usable? Should I start to produce such "accelerated Leaf charger"? I don't know much about voltage and phases you have at home. Please comment.

 

[JohnKuthe]

I have built for my Leafs an alternative to factory AC charger Type1 (Leaf), and the only 3-phase charger for Type1. It can balance load on 2 or 3 phases (depending on version), enabling charging with full speed (3,6 kW, 4,8 kW, 7,2 kW) using equal current on each phase.

Do you think that there is any market for that?..../quote]

Little to none. Few if anyone in the U.S. has 3 phase into their homes!

John Kuthe...

 

[Piro]

I have built for my Leafs an alternative to factory AC charger Type1 (Leaf), and the only 3-phase charger for Type1. It can balance load on 2 or 3 phases (depending on version), enabling charging with full speed (3,6 kW, 4,8 kW, 7,2 kW) using equal current on each phase.

Do you think that there is any market for that?..../quote]

Little to none. Few if anyone in the U.S. has 3 phase into their homes!

John Kuthe...

That I have expected

But all in all it works fine for me - here luckily 3phase is popular and I've got such standard 14,5A x 3 connection (400 V)

 

[JohnKuthe]

I have built for my Leafs an alternative to factory AC charger Type1 (Leaf), and the only 3-phase charger for Type1. It can balance load on 2 or 3 phases (depending on version), enabling charging with full speed (3,6 kW, 4,8 kW, 7,2 kW) using equal current on each phase.

Do you think that there is any market for that?..../quote]

Little to none. Few if anyone in the U.S. has 3 phase into their homes!

John Kuthe...

That I have expected

But all in all it works fine for me - here luckily 3phase is popular and I've got such standard 14,5A x 3 connection (400 V)

Then make it happen! 100% Electric cars ARE the future of personal transportation!

John Kuthe...

 

[rmay635703]

I've often thought it short sighted that the j standard didn't support at least 277 volt which is common on light poles or even common 3 phase for corporate customers.

Ah well, sort of like the backward ancient MPEG HD TV format, when modern QuickTime or MP4 would allow 4K through the same bandwidth.

 

[jjeff]

...rate customers.

Ah well, sort of like the backward ancient MPEG HD TV format, when modern QuickTime or MP4 would allow 4K through the same bandwidth.

It's called ATSC 3.0 and will be here sooner than you'd think 4k support and more......of course for people using an antenna it will require all new tuners as it won't be backwards compatible with our current MPEG2 ATSC 1.0

 

[Juhani]

I have built for my Leafs an alternative to factory AC charger Type1 (Leaf), and the only 3-phase charger for Type1. It can balance load on 2 or 3 phases (depending on version), enabling charging with full speed (3,6 kW, 4,8 kW, 7,2 kW) using equal current on each phase.

Do you think that there is any market for that?..../quote]

Little to none. Few if anyone in the U.S. has 3 phase into their homes!

John Kuthe...

I believe that most European houses (but not flats) are using 3 phase electricity: https://www.quora.com/Why-do-European-homes-have-three-phase-power

I'm living in Finland. Here CEE/Commando red plugs are common. My home is using 3 phase and I'm interested to hear more about your charger. I even registered to send this message I believe that many Norwegians are interested also.

 

[JohnKuthe]

I have built for my Leafs an alternative to factory AC charger Type1 (Leaf), and the only 3-phase charger for Type1. It can balance load on 2 or 3 phases (depending on version), enabling charging with full speed (3,6 kW, 4,8 kW, 7,2 kW) using equal current on each phase.

Do you think that there is any market for that?..../quote]

Little to none. Few if anyone in the U.S. has 3 phase into their homes!

John Kuthe...

I believe that most European houses (but not flats) are using 3 phase electricity: https://www.quora.com/Why-do-European-homes-have-three-phase-power

I'm living in Finland. Here CEE/Commando red plugs are common. My home is using 3 phase and I'm interested to hear more about your charger. I even registered to send this message I believe that many Norwegians are interested also.

There are lots of variation on electrical power delivery to various venues in various places in the world. Here in the U.S. I;m pretty sure the standard for home electrical service is 240VAC single phase 3 wire. That's what's up on the poles behind this house and there are three separate wires running on the poles behind this house, and leading in to the house.

It's what my electrician;s gonna use and it's what's delivering electrical power to this house right now. My electrician's gonna rehab the service wire coming to the house as right now the tensioner wire is NOT attached securely to the house. I have no idea how anyone ever got an inspection/occupancy permit for the house! I;d not pass it and I;m not even an expert!

John Kuthe...

 

[Piro]

Test of 2-phase Type1 charger - this accelerates home charging to 4.8 kW (or 7.2 kW in 3-phase version), by balancing the load to all phases. Current limit is 10A per phase.
Speed of charging depends on cars' onboard charger. Leaf and PHEV with single charger can charge with 3,5 kW (as on video), cars with "double charger" or Tesla US import can charge 4.8 kW (2-phase) or 7.2kW (3-phase).
To this is 2-phase or 3-phase to one "superphase" converter.
In 2-phase version, using Boost button (not visible on video) you can limit superphase current to 16A (boost off), 3.5 kW limit, 7,5 A per phase, or with "boost on" limit is 20A so each phase is loaded with up to 10,5A. We surge a bit more current per phase than superphase delivers, as superphase has a voltage of 240V (instead of 230V standard) to accelerate charging even more - as onboard chargers accept any voltage from 100-260V, but limit current only.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI2fshZ_Ryc

More info will be there (in a few days):

https://www.facebook.com/NissanLeafTuning/

 

[Piro]

This is how it finally looks like (4.8 kW version, 2-phase) Type 1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuLg_0dPOF4

I still test it in normal mode 16.0A x 240V = 3,84 kW, then I will test a BOOST mode: 20A x 240V = 4,8 kW with Leaf and Tesla.

You connect it to any 3-phase socket (16A or 32A). It uses only 2 phases from it. You can decide which 2 phases out of three should be loaded, of course each with 8A in normal mode or 10A in BOOST mode.

Looks that I have solved problem of blowing fuses at home, when I tried to use 16A charger. Now I can charge 20A x 240V and still have reserve

 

[Piro]

Please opinion: I decided to add two functions to our 4.8kW 2-phase Type1 charger. Do you like them?
1. switch with 2 positions - "TOP UP" and "FULL". When "TOP UP" is on, charger charges till car stops charging. When "FULL" is on, charger charges till current drops below 6A (about 95% of charge in average EV or PHEV). This will save battery from heating at end of charge.
2. RFID reader inside. You can decide what current is max: 8-16-20, and you can also start and stop charging. It will be even possible to lock charger and use it only with authorized RFID keys
Any other ideas?
I also consider adding Z-wave/Wifi, so you can control charger from home network. I have added that to my prototype and it seems a good idea. At least I see my car energy loaded from any place via Z-wave or Wifi.

 

[jjeff]

I like your idea, but just how can you feed 400V into a Leaf without serious consequences?
As has been said, in the US 3 phase power is basically non-existent in residential homes, smaller commercial buildings(and apartments) will probably have 3 phase power, but of the 208v variety(120v per leg, 208v between any 2 of the 3 hot legs). We also have 277v/480v 3 phase power used in larger buildings for things like lighting or HVAC. In buildings that have 277/480v power they will have step down transformers scattered throughout the building for things like receptacles(standard 120v outlets) and such. The step-down transformers output 3-phase 120/208v, where again 208v is between any 2 of the 3 hots.
If your charger were able to use 277/480v there might be some call for that, I for one could use one but I've been told ~260v is the maximum voltage our Leafs can accept, 277v and for sure 480v would be just too high. Could your charger step down 277v or even 480v to something our Leafs could use? If not I'd see little use for your charger in N. America, maybe in Europe but not where most people on this forum reside

 

[Levenkay]

It I've been told ~260v is the maximum voltage our Leafs can accept, 277v and for sure 480v would be just too high.

Not if the proposed charger is connecting through the CHAdeMO port, of course (Isn't that what the OP means by "fast charger" ?)

 

[arnis]

Piro - nice stuff

There is no market in US for that device. But it would help everywhere else where 3 phase is available.
First of all, in EU, 16A breaker means 16A as nominal. It's US thingy to have a breaker rated to peak amps not nominal.

Well, I have a home with 3 phases, each up to 25A and all 3 together up to 63A.
I was able to fit Leaf with 16A charger to one of the phases. Though it is tight in winter.
If your device does not eat efficiency, it would be helpful for many.
But the best thing it could (or even should) do is to load up the phases according to their load.
So imagine L1 at 10A L2 at 16A and L3 at 6A on one day. And L1 at 0A, L2 at 16A L3 at 16A on the other day.
I know it's complicated, but it would have demand. Especially for those 1phase mid-range EV's like Bolt that would
rather charge at 6.6kW as they also have a bigger battery, might need those 32A for the whole night.
I think 16A per phase as max is fine. No need for internal electronics (or input wiring) to be capable for more.
If 2 phase device is way cheaper, then maybe it makes more sense. 16A+16A from 2 phases to get 32A charging?

10-13A on vehicle side is not interesting. Anything below 16A (230V) is not acceptable for "special" EVSE.
A water kettle uses 13A from household plug. Trickle charger (one you get with vehicle) 10A (sometimes 13A).
And max for 1 phase EV's on-board charger in EU is 32A.

Question. If you use 2 phases and no ground, how do you get a) exactly 240V and b) neutral for J1772?

Also you have to be ready for the same device but with Type2 plug. Even though Type2 plug supports 3 phases,
most EV's don't :lol:

 

[szeryf873274]

I would refresh the subject. The first step to go to 3 phase charaging at Nissan Leaf 1 is to replace type 1 receptacle . I did some research and replaced old fashioned type 1 receptacle. I ordered type 2 receptacle at aliexpress https://pl.aliexpress.com/item/1005004686672701.html?spm=a2g0n.order_detail.order_detail_item.3.220d43ceRuxKOU&gatewayAdapt=glo2pol
And manage to fit into onto Nissan Leaf. I face some disadvantages by instance I do not have lock or I cannot stop charging from car. However type 2 receptacle is good start to fit 3 phase on board charger.I look forward to Dalathegreat work with Nissan Leaf CCS conversion which would be excellent advantage of car.

 

[NeguE]

Something new ?