Finding Public Chargers - Recargo

[omkar]

What we need is to start anew. There is a perceived "chicken and egg" problem. That is, why would anyone go to a site with no database? THe way I look at it, they've merely substituted an inaccurate database for no database

I think at this early stage, many would go to a site with no database just to populate that database, if they knew that the database was being populated with high quality information. This high quality information should ideally come from users who have personally visited the site.

This effort would need an easy-to-use wb interface. It should have a map interface which allows the user to zoom in and position the marker (on the hybrid map/satellite) precisely at the location of the EV parking spots. (The ChargePoint maps are notorious for not placing the marker where the parking spot is located.) We need facilities, for example J1772 30A or 5-20R or SPI (still in use by a few RAV4 EVs) or other (I found a 6-20R outlet at one location). It should state the network if an access card is required to start the charger, for example ChargePoint or Blink, or N/A for Nissan dealers and other "off-network" charge points. It should allow access hours, and other access restrictions to be listed. It should give the name of the operator and a contact phone number for calling ahead. Finally, sometimes it is useful to know about nearby attractions, eating places, etc, that are not always obvious on the map.

But the most important requirement is that we start with a fresh database, which does not have all the same old stale information.

Edit: Maybe we could place a timeout, say 6 months or 1 year, on information, marking it "inactive" if no one verifies it periodically. This could help the database from having too much stale information.

Great ideas tps! My two cents.. It would be great to see this data in something like freebase so that it isn't 'owned' by any one website or app. Then, multiple apps/sites could all display/update the data.

 

[EricH]

Great ideas tps! My two cents.. It would be great to see this data in something like freebase so that it isn't 'owned' by any one website or app. Then, multiple apps/sites could all display/update the data.

The problem with 'crowdsourced' databases is that without ownership, there is no good way to resolve conflicts (User A reports one condition; User B reports another -- who referees?) or remove old data.
Given the amount of manual effort that's going to be required in 2011-2012 to maintain/update a good regional/national database of charging stations, I think somebody has to anticipate revenues for that work (banner ads, memberships, $1.99 iPhone app... whatever). I wouldn't do it for free , and the examples I've found on the web today (e.g. electric.carstations.com) are in such terrible disrepair that I don't hold out much hope for the accuracy of a crowdsourced model. And for me to drive >50 miles from my home in a Leaf, accuracy carries a substantial premium.
I'm not saying a good crowdsourced database couldn't happen, just that I'm not betting on it.

 

[walterbays]

I'm not saying a good crowdsourced database couldn't happen, just that I'm not betting on it.

I agree. But I'm not optimistic about any of the commercial directories either.

First of all, most of the directory owners go for the glitz of a smartphone app rather than the drab utility of a web app, and by picking their own favorite phone OS lock out a majority of the market before they even get started. Perhaps they think that advertisers will only pay for glitz, or perhaps they think that they will quickly get their app ported to all the other phones, but they never quite seem to do so.

You can't even count on information in the commercial directories being accurate. Some of them list non-public locations as being public - even Nissan Carwings lists dealers who won't allow customers of other dealerships to charge. None of them list whether the EV charging locations are reserved for EVs, or are likely to be blocked by ICE cars. Rely on information like that and you may be calling for the tow truck.

Chargepoint has the best functioning directory I've seen, with notes on the accessibility and real-time availability of the chargers, and the ability to reserve a charging time. Their web site is fully usable plus they have actually completed an Android app (in beta) to join their iPhone app. Unfortunately they have almost no charging stations down south where I live, and have no interest in and/or no legal ability to list non-Chargepoint stations. If all the commercial directories could interchange data in a standard format, and compete on the presentation of the data and on added information, then everyone would win - drivers, station owners, and directory publishers. But I don't see any signs of that happening.

Google Maps probably has the best chance of becoming a valuable crowd sourced directory. Right now the results are more humorous than useful, listing as an EV charging location any place associated with a web page containing the character strings "ev" and "charge" in whatever context. Over time, though, if you could see a high count of positive user reviews of a charging station you could probably safely assume that 1) it really is a charging station, 2) it works, 3) no security guards will turn you back, and 4) it won't be blocked by an ICE.

The situation with EV charging today might be something like the situation with gasoline cars finding gas stations or roads at the dawn of motoring, when there were no comprehensive maps of roads and few gas stations existed. Just as AAA began publishing road maps in 1905 maybe they (and Michelin, etc.) will start publishing charging directories. I wonder which will come first, a comprehensive accurate reliable directory, or charging stations so ubiquitous that nobody cares about a directory.

 

[tps]

I wonder which will come first, a comprehensive accurate reliable directory, or charging stations so ubiquitous that nobody cares about a directory.

Exactly! Who needs a directory which lists gas stations? But right now a charge point directory is very helpful. A neat feature of the ChargePoint map is the use status of the charging point. I just wish they were as accurate with the location markers...

 

[KevinSharpe]

I'm not saying a good crowdsourced database couldn't happen, just that I'm not betting on it.

are you aware of the Open Charge Map database?

http://openchargemap.org/

 

[tps]

The problem with 'crowdsourced' databases is that without ownership, there is no good way to resolve conflicts (User A reports one condition; User B reports another -- who referees?) or remove old data.

IMHO, the data should be timestamped, so old data ages and is 'retired' automatically. Thus users should be constantly re-confiming the data. So far as resolving conflicts, if you ask that users actually verify data by an on-site visit, the main conflicts should be greatly reduced. Unless one user's data is obviously bogus, how does a referee decide which data to trust, anyway?

 

[Adrian]

The problem with 'crowdsourced' databases is that without ownership, there is no good way to resolve conflicts (User A reports one condition; User B reports another -- who referees?) or remove old data.

IMHO, the data should be timestamped, so old data ages and is 'retired' automatically. Thus users should be constantly re-confiming the data. So far as resolving conflicts, if you ask that users actually verify data by an on-site visit, the main conflicts should be greatly reduced. Unless one user's data is obviously bogus, how does a referee decide which data to trust, anyway?

Here's an example of a cng station finder that works well: http://www.cngprices.com . I use it all the time for my cng Honda Civic GX. It will even allow planning a trip. User's update prices as they use a station, so if a station is stale, it's clearly visible via different colors, as is an inactive station. I'd love to see something as simple and easy to use as this site for finding EV charging stations.

 

[KevinSharpe]

Nice article on ProgrammableWeb about OpenChargeMap API

http://blog.programmableweb.com/201...ge-up-your-electric-car-with-open-charge-map/

 

[HighDesertDriver]

Our first smartphone app is now {Jan 2011} available for iPhone, iPad and iPod touch in the App Store and we plan to release an Android app later this year.

The Recargo website still shows only the Apple app. Any other news out there other than "soon" (September, October Or November)?

 

[dgpcolorado]

Recargo lists Nissan dealers in my area as having chargers by default:

"All Nissan Leaf dealers should be in the process of installing two Level 2 public AeroVironment charging stations."

This is not accurate, many (most?) rural Nissan dealers have no plans to sell or service the Leaf and have no chargers, nor any plans to install them. I would suggest that Nissan dealers be deleted unless they are verified as being "certified Leaf dealers" and have chargers.

The generic Nissan-supplied websites used by many dealers have a link to the Leaf webpage, even though they aren't Leaf certified and can't sell the car. They can't be relied on for useful information.

I have reported the dealer nearest me as not having a charger, having checked it out myself. I need to call the others in my general area, but I know what the answer will be.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Recargo lists Nissan dealers in my area as having chargers by default:

"All Nissan Leaf dealers should be in the process of installing two Level 2 public AeroVironment charging stations."

This is not accurate, many (most?) rural Nissan dealers have no plans to sell or service the Leaf and have no chargers, nor any plans to install them.

Very true. Even here in California, the Nissan dealer just east of San Diego, on the way to Yuma, Arizona, does not have a charger and does not sell the LEAF.

I'll have to find an RV park to recharge.