Ford Ditches CCS for Tesla Plug

[Oils4AsphaultOnly]

This doesn't say anything about "ditching CCS", AFAICT, just adding so-called NACS.

I don't really see the point of this, with Tesla having already started to open up their network to CCS.

Yes, Ford is ditching CCS (at least on the vehicle) - https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1139760_ford-tesla-supercharger-nacs-future-evs:

As new Ford EVs are introduced, it will be abandoning the CCS standard in the U.S. completely. When asked whether next-generation Ford EVs will have the CCS port, Ford replied to Green Car Reports: “Gen 2 EVs with the NACS port will have the option of charging at CCS chargers via an adapter.“

 

[WetEV]

While I know it makes little business sense for Tesla, Nissan, Mitsubishi, or Setec to build an adapter for NACS, it would certainly build some instant loyalty with Leaf patrons.

Networking and sequencing are completely different between CCS or Telsa and Chademo. A big complicated box, not just connecting wires together.

Tesla and CCS are the same controls because of the EU. EU required CCS2 for all new EVs. Tesla needed to support a CCS control, so standardized on that. So Tesla to CCS is easy, just wires. Tesla or CCS to Chademo isn't just wires. So is not easy.

 

[WetEV]

Yes, Ford is ditching CCS (at least on the vehicle) - https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1139760_ford-tesla-supercharger-nacs-future-evs:

As new Ford EVs are introduced, it will be abandoning the CCS standard in the U.S. completely. When asked whether next-generation Ford EVs will have the CCS port, Ford replied to Green Car Reports: “Gen 2 EVs with the NACS port will have the option of charging at CCS chargers via an adapter.“

F150 Lightning does V2H, will likely keep CCS port at least until Tesla connector supports V2H.

 

[dgpcolorado]

If you didn't watch the video linked by SageBrush upthread, it answers some of the questions that have been presented. CNBC interview with the Ford CEO:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd23850h9zc

Adapters for existing cars and next year's models. NACS plug on cars in 2025. Ford will use their own software to control charging and payment but I gather that it will be seamless, as it is with Teslas now: plug-in, charge, unplug, drive away — no fussing with apps, authorizing the charge session, and payments; the cost is displayed on the car's screen and the credit card on file is charged automatically.

 

[SageBrush]

I haven't read all the details, but are you implying that Ford will include both NACS and CCS1 inlets on their cars?

I don't see why not. But I surely don't know.

Ford has said that from 2025 their cars will be NACS equipped and will be able to charge at CCS ports using an adapter. Ergo, NACS only

 

[SageBrush]

While I know it makes little business sense for Tesla, Nissan, Mitsubishi, or Setec to build an adapter for NACS, it would certainly build some instant loyalty with Leaf patrons.

Loyalty to LEAF, anyway. Have you written to Nissan yet ?

Tick, tock. Tick, tock

 

[Oils4AsphaultOnly]

Yes, Ford is ditching CCS (at least on the vehicle) - https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1139760_ford-tesla-supercharger-nacs-future-evs:

As new Ford EVs are introduced, it will be abandoning the CCS standard in the U.S. completely. When asked whether next-generation Ford EVs will have the CCS port, Ford replied to Green Car Reports: “Gen 2 EVs with the NACS port will have the option of charging at CCS chargers via an adapter.“

F150 Lightning does V2H, will likely keep CCS port at least until Tesla connector supports V2H.

Section 4.6 of the NACS spec sheet says "V2X" (aka V2G, V2H, V2V) will be supported. The actual implementation guide hasn't been detailed yet. So future F150's with NACS connectors should support V2H just fine.

 

[WetEV]

F150 Lightning does V2H, will likely keep CCS port at least until Tesla connector supports V2H.

Section 4.6 of the NACS spec sheet says "V2X" (aka V2G, V2H, V2V) will be supported. The actual implementation guide hasn't been detailed yet. So future F150's with NACS connectors should support V2H just fine.

https://electrek.co/2023/03/01/tesla-says-it-could-have-bidirectional-charging-in-two-years-but-will-it/

Musk isn't happy with V2X. “I don’t think very many people are going to want to use bidirectional charging, unless you have a Powerwall, because if you unplug your car, your house goes dark, and this is extremely inconvenient.”


Time of use tariffs mean you can charge your car on cheap night time power, and run your morning power load off the car, and avoid buying expensive peak power. Also, if you are home, you have back up power. If you are not home, do you care as much?

Also, V2X can be either AC or DC. AC means much cheaper house connections, lower total power available, and only slightly more expensive car equipment. Tesla could, of course support either or both. Or none, if Musk's attitude holds.

 

[Stanton]

Also, V2X can be either AC or DC. AC means much cheaper house connections, lower total power available, and only slightly more expensive car equipment. Tesla could, of course support either or both. Or none, if Musk's attitude holds.

Now that I've installed a transfer switch to use my battery backup (EcoFlow DeltaPro), I will be very interested in the AC output capability of future EVs (like the Hyundai EV I recently saw). There's nothing like a giant battery backup sitting in your garage...in the form of an EV!

 

[Oils4AsphaultOnly]

F150 Lightning does V2H, will likely keep CCS port at least until Tesla connector supports V2H.

Section 4.6 of the NACS spec sheet says "V2X" (aka V2G, V2H, V2V) will be supported. The actual implementation guide hasn't been detailed yet. So future F150's with NACS connectors should support V2H just fine.

https://electrek.co/2023/03/01/tesla-says-it-could-have-bidirectional-charging-in-two-years-but-will-it/

Musk isn't happy with V2X. “I don’t think very many people are going to want to use bidirectional charging, unless you have a Powerwall, because if you unplug your car, your house goes dark, and this is extremely inconvenient.”


Time of use tariffs mean you can charge your car on cheap night time power, and run your morning power load off the car, and avoid buying expensive peak power. Also, if you are home, you have back up power. If you are not home, do you care as much?

Also, V2X can be either AC or DC. AC means much cheaper house connections, lower total power available, and only slightly more expensive car equipment. Tesla could, of course support either or both. Or none, if Musk's attitude holds.

Indeed. But there's some truth to his view - if looking through the views of a family. If it's raining, the spouse and kids are at home, and you need to run an errand, will you leave them without power? A dedicated powerwall is better in that situation. But for single people, then yes a V2H is a more efficient use of the batteries.

But with NEM 3 now in effect, every new solar system will have to come with a powerwall to make the system more cost-effective, so V2H would lose its appeal. BUT having an onboard battery generator is nice for camping, so I can totally see that capability existing just to offer the generator feature (which you can then plug into your home to act as a home backup for those who don't have powerwalls!).

If the V2X capability doesn't require more than a software change, then he won't hold it back.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

V2G or V2Office would be a great add in South Africa where load shedding is becoming crippling for the economic progress of the country.

 

[goldbrick]

I agree this is a nano-niche market and I'd be surprised if any auto makers make any large efforts to support V2X. I can see a small on-board inverter (even the Rav4 Prime has an option for a 1.5kW on-board inverter today) and I'm sure EV's could support something much more substantial but if the costs exceed a few hundred $$$ in materials, I don't think the economics make sense. Adding this as an option is also problematic, IMHO, due to regulations, testing requirements, support, battery warranty concerns, etc.

 

[frontrangeleaf]

I disagree. At current prices, the large battery in our Leaf far exceeds any reasonable investment in Powerwalls or other stand-alone storage sized to carry our house for even a few hours. It's roughly 4 Powerwalls worth, and they came with "free" car! Note that we're not giving up our ICE cars any time soon, and would likely have a second vehicle or just use Uber if needed.

Would much prefer a bi-directional charger, assuming that the price is more reasonable (as it should be, lacking battery expense). Will consider the Enphase unit when it becomes available, as it will fit in neatly with our micro inverters, and allows us to side-step the Tesla insanity. Musk can go 'eff' himself. I'm done with that clown.

We've structured our solar project into 3 phases: 1) just solar (now up and running as of May 1), 2) add stand-alone storage for 4-8 hours, 3) add a bi-directional charger for longer outages should they become somewhat common place in the Denver area (as they are in parts of California).

We are now considering flipping phases 2 and 3. Put in the bi-directional charger, and add a storage battery only if outages become more frequent. That makes way more sense to me as things stand now. Time will tell.

I think V2H makes all kinds of sense for us.